Bad Guy offthearkexoticpets

[Talkenlate04]

I really don't understand people sometimes. I will keep this brief because I see some of it is my fault for not checking the forums first before engaging in a transaction.

There were a few pastel females up on kingsnake and I sent a message of interest on Friday for one of them.

I received a reply the following morning and was given a price. I then told him I wanted to get both and Id let him know soon, that was Sat afternoon. Sat night I made an offer on both, and I was told that would be an offer they would take. I asked what my total shipped was and where to send money.

The reply to that came on Sunday at around 430pm. I was given a paypal address and was told they could do shipping Mon for Tues as I requested.

When I got back from running errands I sent the money in full (around 9pm).

First thing in the morning I get a refund email from them. I emailed and asked what the heck, I get told someone called in with a cc and bought them and that I waited to long to get back to them and did not put money down to secure them.

The ad did not say nothing about needing a deposit to have them held (which I would have gladly done if I had known there was a urgent need on a Sunday afternoon to secure the snakes I wanted)

In expressed my frustration on how they handled that situation and was basically told oh well. When I stated I was going to express my dissatisfaction on fauna I received this reply,

From: Ferraiolo Family <[email protected]>;
To: Ryan Nefcy <[email protected]>;
Subject: Re: female pastel
Sent: Mon, Feb 20, 2012 4:11:00 PM
I am sorry you feel that way but that is a 5 hour gap after sending payment info and getting payment. It is rather common in this trade to have that happen and never get any payment from the original party and thus loose the secondary sale. I am banned from fauna so I cannot do anything to stop you. Be careful though, those guys can be ugly

The Ferraiolos Off The Ark 804.717.2282www.offthearkexoticpets.com

Needless to say I am still not thrilled with how things went down. Hopefully I save someone else from a money driven business like offtheark that carries no customer service what so ever.

And yes I have all the emails, but there is no real point when they are not even going to see this.

 

[ShadowAceD]

Do you have the e-mails between you two regarding the deal itself?

 

[Talkenlate04]

I suppose that would help,

From: Ferraiolo Family <[email protected]>;
To: Ryan Nefcy <[email protected]>;
Subject: Re: female pastel
Sent: Sun, Feb 19, 2012 4:32:03 PM
Sorry, total is $850. Payment can be made at this email via PAYPAL

 

[Talkenlate04]

Might as well list this one too.

Dear Ryan Nefcy,

You sent a payment for $850.00 USD to OFF THE ARK.

Please note that it may take a little while for this payment to appear in the Recent Activity list on your Account Overview.

View the details of this transaction online


Your monthly account statement is available anytime; just log in to your account at https://www.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_history. To correct any errors, please contact us through our Help Center at https://www.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_contact_us.

Amount: $850.00 USD
Sent on: February 19, 2012
Payment method: PayPal Balance
Message in your payment email: Please ship to this address, Ryan Nefcy 16055 Sw Walker Road. Beaverton Oregon 97006. That will have it going directly to a UPS store that my wife works at. Thanks!

 

[ozz465]

Ive had the same thing happen to me, i take too long to send an actual payment and miss out on awesome deals .Seems this thread is in retaliation for them not selling the snake to you and actually going with someone with cash in hand.Next time have then payment ready when buying or make arrangements with the seller .

 

[Talkenlate04]

Ive had the same thing happen to me, i take too long to send an actual payment and miss out on awesome deals .Seems this thread is in retaliation for them not selling the snake to you and actually going with someone with cash in hand.Next time have then payment ready when buying or make arrangements with the seller .

Are you smoking something? How is agreeing on a price I offered, agreeing on shipping day, then getting payment info, and then having them sold out from under me in the 5 hrs it took me to get home and send payment on a Sunday afternoon ok? If I had any idea that phoning in a payment was an option I would have done that in a second. But I did not know that, so I sent payment via paypal when I got home.

This has nothing to do with retaliation for not getting what I wanted. This is me not happy with how things went and feeling like I was screwed out of a deal that was all but nailed shut with no warning what so ever.

 

[ozz465]

Are you smoking something? How is agreeing on a price I offered, agreeing on shipping day, then getting payment info, and then having them sold out from under me in the 5 hrs it took me to get home and send payment on a Sunday afternoon ok? If I had any idea that phoning in a payment was an option I would have done that in a second. But I did not know that, so I sent payment via paypal when I got home.

This has nothing to do with retaliation for not getting what I wanted. This is me not happy with how things went and feeling like I was screwed out of a deal that was all but nailed shut with no warning what so ever.

Lets leave the insults to children , you must also see it from a sellers point of view , countless times i myself had a person pm me wanting to buy an animal and agreeing to price,day of shipment and others only to give me one of many excuses or no communication for a good amount of time and end up on a lost sale. In this business cash is king and the one with it available is far more an better alternative to sell to then a person who does not , out of so many "deals" there are many that end up as nothing.


There is no business transaction till money changes hands.

 

[Skanakis]

Gotta agree with Ozz. I am a buyer myself. I dont sell animals. (yet). And i do believe cash is king. Well in the instance of the internet Payment first is king. Unless you have dealt with a person already and they know you are stand up. Nobody wants to miss out on a sale cause you got fired or something unexpected came up. I hear the seller. But understand your frustration. Others have ruined it for the stand up guy who may need an hour or two to get funds together. hehehe....this is why i got paypal on my droid. Offtheark....they sold quick. Could be a reason they are banned here. So...a sale to them....may be REAL precious. Who knows. But there are enough good buys here.

 

[Talkenlate04]

Well then you and I disagree.

I have done countless sales and when I post something up for sale I take the offers in order. If someone seems serious but for some reason I am not sure and there is another excited buyer waiting I send an email to the first buyer and let them know I need an answer soon or the second person is getting the deal and I set a reasonable expectation time wise for them to get back to me.

What I don't do is agree to an offered price by the buyer, agree to a shipping day that works for the buyer, give out my paypal, then sell to someone else 5 hrs later because I have not heard back from my first customer yet. There was NOTHING indicating I was hesitating, asking for payments or time to pay or any of that crap you see when you have someone on the fence of commitment.

There is no business transaction till money changes hands

Customer service starts at the very beginning. Even if a deal falls through there is a way to have a deal fall and still retain a customer, that did not happen here imo. Money does not have to change hands for me to feel like I got the short end of the stick and be unhappy as a buyer.

Lets leave the insults to children ,

Your right, I should not have said that, it was my involuntary response to your illogical approach to my main problem with what happened and your snide remark about having cash in hand when I want to buy something. I HAVE the money to buy what I want, I was not given enough time to pay, nor was I given any sort of fair warning that I needed to be rushing home to pay on a Sunday freaking afternoon!

I have wasted more energy responding to you than I should have lol. Oh well.

Skanakis But there are enough good buys here.

I agree, my new rule is to check this site first and scour the internet for the good and the bad before diving right in, had I done that I would have never even sent a message expressing interested in their ad. Lesson thoroughly learned.

 

[wyldwurm]

Ive had the same thing happen to me, i take too long to send an actual payment and miss out on awesome deals .Seems this thread is in retaliation for them not selling the snake to you and actually going with someone with cash in hand.Next time have then payment ready when buying or make arrangements with the seller .

Absolutely agree. Money talks and it's been my experience that the first to pay gets the goods. I think this thread is in bad taste.

 

[ozz465]

Your right, I should not have said that, it was my involuntary response to your illogical approach to my main problem with what happened and your snide remark about having cash in hand when I want to buy something. I HAVE the money to buy what I want, I was not given enough time to pay, nor was I given any sort of fair warning that I needed to be rushing home to pay on a Sunday freaking afternoon!

I have wasted more energy responding to you than I should have lol. Oh well.
.

While i wish to maintain a reasonable Adult convo it seems you don't . my comment in no way was meant to be "snide. I disagree with you so that makes me illogical and snide? Cash in hand means exactly that Cash In HAND not having to wait a few hours for payment , i am sorry you view such actions as a bad guy worthy case but many people have had countless bad experiences like this and they simply move on

I forgot to ask did you tell the seller you were going to take 5 hours to have payment sent? if so that makes a difference in your argument, if not then it seems understandable why the seller took the next persons offer .

 

[Neon]

Well then you and I disagree.


Customer service starts at the very beginning. Even if a deal falls through there is a way to have a deal fall and still retain a customer, that did not happen here imo. Money does not have to change hands for me to feel like I got the short end of the stick and be unhappy as a buyer.
.

I think what you're ignoring here is some people just don't run their businesses on customer service. It's unfortunate but the majority of the large breeders/suppliers run that way. For most of them that's how they got there: by taking the first money waved in their faces. That's certainly not a business maneuver I plan on taking nor do I deal with breeders who deal in such manners; I like knowing my critters were cared for as animals rather than inventory and I feel like poor customer service can be a reflection of how their stock is cared for. Then again, some people just aren't good communicators.

That being said, if I were in your position I would absolutely feel the same way. They certainly could have recovered you as a customer or at least placated and resolved the situation in some way. However, this does happen a lot (as others have mentioned). I've had it happen where I was e-mailing the breeder inquiring of an animal, stated I was going to purchase (and was also working out the shipping details) and then someone went and added the animal to their shopping cart and checked out. It really is just a sucky situation.

Even so, I think a bad guy thread is just a little harsh for this situation.

 

[Talkenlate04]

This was not me sending a message every now and then in passing interest. This was me as a buyer trying to BUY something. Sending 9 emails in two and a half days, and receiving replies to all of them (slowly I might add ). Agreeing to terms, dates to ship, and finding out where I needed to send payment, sending payment and somehow ending up with nothing because somehow it appeared like I was emailing them for fun?

I can see my point is being missed, and that is fine, I am not going to spend any more of my time defending why I won't buy from or ever deal with them again. It is my opinion, I am entitled to it and it is what it is.

And maybe a bad guy thread was a bit much, but they are banned from here so how far off the mark could I have been exactly?

 

[Lucille]

And maybe a bad guy thread was a bit much, but they are banned from here so how far off the mark could I have been exactly?

You were off the mark because of the reason you gave. If you are saying this person has had a history of bad transactions and you don't want to do biz that's fine, that is what the BOI is for. If you are saying this person is a bad guy because of this policy, you may find some who disagree.
As people have already mentioned, unless a seller specifically agrees to hold an animal until payment is received, many sellers feel that until a deposit or payment is received the sale has not been completed.
You can read from sellers here that all sorts of people tell them that they want to buy a particular critter and are never heard from again, or who simply change their mind.

 

[carrienkashe]

Personally, I have had many people who email me several times within a day with questions, requests for more pics, and/or more info. After I've accepted their offer or they tell me they want the animal and I give paypal information, I never hear from them again. At times, I've even sent a follow up email to see if they are still interested because they seemed so interested before and most of the time never hear back from them again.. It's an unfortunate part of the business. I do let people know that I do not hold any animal without at least a deposit and that's the only thing I see that was missing in this transaction.

 

[Matt2979]

Regardless of any past activity from "Off the Ark", I don't see how this current situation justifies a BG thread. I am, by no means, a "big breeder". I produce between 10-20 clutches a year (at most) and sincerely enjoy the hobby itself; however, in order to afford my hobby, I do have to sell the majority of the animals that I produce. While I strive to give the best customer service that I can, I can NOT hold an animal for every person expressing interest.

Many, many, many people will write and tell me that if I accept their offer, they will send the funds right away. The vast majority NEVER DO! For that reason, I do not hold an animal without a 25% non-refundable deposit, meaning that if someone else comes along in with the funds, they get the animal that they want.

I can understand your being upset that they did not express any such terms to you, but I've been under the impression that most folks do business this way (if they want to stay in business). What I do not understand is why you would make an offer for less money than the animals were advertised for, have that accepted, and then not make arrangements to pay immediately. By the way, try telling your electric company that they should not have turned your lights off because you really did have the "cash in hand", but failed to send it to them.

 

[Reptilecam]

I understand why you would be upset about the missed transaction, but it does not justify a bad guy thread. Like previously mentioned if there wasnt so many people who just flake out, the sellers wouldnt have to jump on the first cash offered sale.
For that reason anytime I feel someone is indeed going to buy I leave them my telephone number so I personally can talk to and hear if they are truelly interested. If they dont call then they didnt really want to buy that much. However, I dont have animals flying out my doors everyday so I have more time to consider who I will sell to. So I cannot speak for off the ark, but I do understand your frustration.

 

[Ingenious Incarnations]

I have done business with Off The Ark, and had a great experience. I sent an e-mail about some snakes advertised on KS and he responded quickly and even told me about another similar animal that he had not yet posted, with a pic. I told him I was interested, asked about his paypal info, and when the animal could ship out. He told me, and I sent payment. Got my snake quickly, and in great condition.

Off The Ark isn't even a breeder, they are a family run pet store who sell snakes bred by a local breeder/friend of theirs. Of course they are going to take the money that comes in first, that's why they are in business. I have had multiple experiences in which I showed interest in an animal, or other goods for that matter, and had whatever it was sold before I could send payment. As others have said, most breeders will not hold an animal without at least a 25% deposit. You did offer a certain amount of money, and they told you when it would be possible to ship once they received payment, but until they had that money in their account that was not a sale, just an offer.

I understand your frustration at the situation, but a BG thread is a little off base. I hope you have better luck, and timing, in the future.

 

[TattooLost]

Gotta agree with most here. You snooze, you lose. It stinks, but definitely not worthy of a bad guy thread. He got a quicker offer, and then refunded your money. You're not out anything but, what? A good deal on a snake? I'm sure you can find another. Next time throw a deposit down on what you want asap. Lesson learned.

 

[Willow]

Sadly, first customer to pay generally gets the goods. Each transaction is different, if the seller honestly felt confident in the fact you where going to purchase, then I'm sure he would not have sold them otherwise.
But if you just stated "I'll send payment when I get home from work" and thats the end of it....well...sadly....most sellers here have heard that many times, just to get nothing.

When selling an animal, even if you're the most loving, caring person alive, the bottom line it that it is business....it's not personal....it's business....sadly, a lot of people tend to take rejection personally.

and just to point something out

you posted that you sent 9 emails in 2 ad a half days, and you got replies to each, to which you feel the need to ( ) that it was done slowly?

Why do people feel the need to dramatize something this way?

at this point you do just seem bitter, as that many emails in 2 and a half days, would not come off as slowly to me as a buyer. I do not expect people to be staring at their computers all day waiting to hear from me...