Ok, another dieing leo

[The NY Gecko]

Tom, I'm not looking to "pile on" here, but really just because HILLS A/D is made for "Pets" does not mean it is o.k. to give to your leopard geckos. By the way, the digestive system of cats and dogs are also "much more robust" and "different working" than reptiles. For the sake of comparison here are the ingredients for the Hills A/D food:

Water, poultry liver, chicken, corn flour, casein, fish oil, sodium tripolyphosphate, guar gum, taurine, minerals (calcium carbonate, potassium chloride, magnesium oxide, zinc oxide, ferrous sulfate, copper sulfate, manganous oxide, calcium iodate, sodium selenite), vitamins (choline chloride, vitamin D3 supplement, vitamin E supplement, thiamine mononitrate, niacin, calcium pantothenate, pyridoxine hydrochloride, riboflavin, folic acid, biotin, vitamin B12 supplement).

Here are the ingredients of a jar of Beech Nut Stage 2 Chicken and rice dinner: carrots, water, finely ground chicken, peas and rice.

Much less extra ingredients in the baby food, which isn't a bad thing, I would rather add the vitamins and minerals that were needed specifically for my herp rather than having to wonder how much of the contents of the pet food are harmful to my gecko.

it was different when my vet handed it to me.

 

[surfrkidts]

and me, id never give something i had for my fish to my leos. ive bred tropical fish for years. Im assuming you mean Metronidazole was the medication?

The reason we are restricted to using medications for other species is because not many researchers have found reptiles to be a profitable market for special treatments. at least not yet.

I recently talked to my veterinarian about the same thing. Since we have limited choices, dog, cat, and horse medications are what we have to choose from. Giving the proper dose becomes a bit harder, but if done correctly the medication still works.

As for not putting some of the most vital ingredients in the slurry, you are missing out on a lot of the extra boost the geckos could be receiving, and can digest just fine. Marcia's slurry obviously works because its saved hundreds of geckos. I think feeding Leos jelly beans is one thing, but nutritious ingredients that are soft on the stomach should pose no problem.

 

[Gecko_Den]

Hey how about chloramphenicol I have some of that at home. If it dont kill him it might cure him.

"Chloramphenicol (klor-am-FEN-i-kole) is used in the treatment of infections caused by bacteria. It works by killing bacteria or preventing their growth.

Chloramphenicol is used to treat serious infections in different parts of the body. It is sometimes given with other antibiotics. However, chloramphenicol should not be used for colds, flu, other virus infections, sore throats or other minor infections, or to prevent infections.

Chloramphenicol should only be used for serious infections in which other medicines do not work. This medicine may cause some serious side effects, including blood problems and eye problems. Symptoms of the blood problems include pale skin, sore throat and fever, unusual bleeding or bruising, and unusual tiredness or weakness. You and your doctor should talk about the good this medicine will do as well as the risks of taking it .

Chloramphenicol is available only with your doctor's prescription"

Yikes, see my earlier thought regarding "shotgun medicating"

 

[nydrgnldy]

Ok so lets try this question one more time...DID YOU TAKE ANY OF THESE GECKOS TO THE VET FOR FECAL? WHAT WERE THE RESULTS? There are many parasites if left untreated will make your gecko stop eating and look like that pic.Not just Crypto.Most parasites if left untreated can and will kill your geckos.If you have 300 to buy the geckos you should also have the 30-50 it would cost for a visit and fecal exam.
Robin

 

[Gecko_Den]

it was different when my vet handed it to me.

The ingredients were different? Or it was OK because your vet handed it to you?

I think you are missing the point, and the focus of what we were talking about. You said "never give your reptile any food intended for people", I think that it may be a bit hypocritical of you to say NO to people food, but that it is OK to give them dog food. Especially when you consider that the nucleus of your argument was the physiological differences in our bodies digestive process and that of reptiles, yet ignore that the dog digestive process is equally as different as that of a reptiles....

 

[KelliH]

And yes there is a form of Crypto that affects humans, in 1993 Milwaukee was hit especially hard when it's water supply was infected.

I always thought that the species of crypto that affects humans is C. parvum and the one most commonly seen in leos could not be transferred to mammals. However, after a couple minutes of Googling, it appears that some scientists believe that the species of crypto that leos are being diagnosed with is an entirely new species. Scary scary scary stuff.

Kelli, I guess my remark was a bit snippy I apologise

Nah, not really. I don't expect or want anyone to understand why I may not always feel like talking on the phone, listening to my voice mail etc. But my family and true friends are compassionate and supportive, that's all that matters.

 

[Gecko_Den]

I always thought that the species of crypto that affects humans is C. parvum and the one most commonly seen in leos could not be transferred to mammals. However, after a couple minutes of Googling, it appears that some scientists believe that the species of crypto that leos are being diagnosed with is an entirely new species. Scary scary scary stuff.

Yeah, no more kissing strange reptiles for me....

 

[KelliH]

Yeah, no more kissing strange reptiles for me....

LOL, yeah, what a bummer!

 

[neatochickens27]

This has happended to two of my leos.The one i could not save but the vet gave me antiboitics(basically pennicillin) and some stuff to feed them while theyre on the meds.You just have to be persistent and siringe the meds every day and give them about a gram of the nutritional creame stuff every day...I think i still have antiboitic left over if anyone wants it, but id recomend checking with a vet first.

 

[perefalcon]

I hope you have better luck curing your leos than I did...the vet said the fecal was clean and gave me the script....she's gone, I just spent 10 minutes trying to get her to breathe....it didn't work

this is her when I first got her.

 

[Southwick Herps]

and me, id never give something i had for my fish to my leos. i know that some fish cant even handle it and that its also very dillute din the water as opposed to direct oral givings.

Well... I disagree with this.. I remember back when I had a electric malfunction with the timers while I was on vacation, and it got chilly for as long as 5 days, and a few ball pythons got URI's... I used Tetracycline which is a fish medication, and orally gave it to them, and it worked very well... Then I used clavamox, which I believe is primarily a horse medication.

Anyways, I wish you luck with your leos. Sorry to hear about your problem, I know it sucks to lose animals.

 

[The NY Gecko]

The ingredients were different? Or it was OK because your vet handed it to you?

I think you are missing the point, and the focus of what we were talking about. You said "never give your reptile any food intended for people", I think that it may be a bit hypocritical of you to say NO to people food, but that it is OK to give them dog food. Especially when you consider that the nucleus of your argument was the physiological differences in our bodies digestive process and that of reptiles, yet ignore that the dog digestive process is equally as different as that of a reptiles....

when the guy has a phd in veterinary medicine and exotics its enough for me

 

[Gecko_Den]

when the guy has a phd in veterinary medicine and exotics its enough for me

According to The National Academy of Sciences' Institute of Medicine, an estimated 44,000 to 98,000 Americans die each year not from the medical conditions they checked in with, but from preventable medical errors. A PhD doesn't make you infallible.


Blind faith, no matter how passionately expressed, will not suffice. Science for its part will test relentlessly every assumption about the human condition.
-Edward O. Wilson

 

[The NY Gecko]

i took his word for it because he went to college aboutt hsi stuff and i didnt, which to me means he knows more. stop me when i mwrong

 

[StinaUIUC]

and me, id never give something i had for my fish to my leos. i know that some fish cant even handle it and that its also very dillute din the water as opposed to direct oral givings.

There's no scientific basis for that choice... metronidazole is metronidazole is metronidazole...it doesn't matter what species its marketed for, its all the same drug. All that differs is the label and the directions. Meds can be given to any species so long as no ingredients in it are specifically harmful to the species being administered to. Panacur regularly used to deworm pretty much everything is marketed in different forms...i.e. horses or dogs & cats...but dogs and cats can take horse panacur....and dog & cat panacur is commonly given to reptiles (as there isn't any marketed for reptiles). It's all in the marketing...and a little in extra ingredients (like horse panacur is apple flavored and in a paste form...but it doesn't have anything harmful in it for any species I'm aware of). The only reason meds are marketed separately for people and animals is b/c much less research is required for animal medications and b/c people probably wouldn't like taking pills from the same bottle as their dog. It's all the same stuff.

 

[Shelley1063]

metronidazole is metronidazole is metronidazole...it doesn't matter what species its marketed for, its all the same drug.

Along those lines, I have an epileptic Italian Greyhound, he takes Phenobarbital twice a day, the exact same stuff prescribed to humans

 

[raiquee]

I remember Milwaukee getting hit with crypto. We had to boil our water otherwise we could get really sick!

Panacur is also a horse med, but is used for worms. Not to mention when you say your vet wormed your leo, that is probably what she used. Flagyl is used for cats, for fish, and for imported reptiles. No problems with that.

So giving the fruit eating geckos baby food isn't good? Or fresh fruit? Because it's human grade? God give me a break. Do you know what crap they put in dog food? It's better if they do get the real deal rather than a mouthful of perservatives. Well not that human food is very far off.

Tom I really don't want this to sound rude, but you really need to learn more about leos before you start giving people advice. It really could cause a lot of damage. Your new on the scene, learn from others and try to keep and open mind. Your being rather pig-headed!

Marcia's slurry has been used for years now, on numerous geckos. You can't assume after one feeding of your slurry, that its a) good for the gecko b) works for all geckos c) will work again and d) has the correct vit/protien content to properly balance your leos diet.

As for you James, you need to go into your vet, ask for a fecal. She may have wormed him but if he has protozoans then worming meds doesn't help that. She needs to do a FECAL. Pretty much any vet can do a fecal. Once you find out what is causing this disease, you can tell her to give you a treatment accordingly. If not, then this vet isn't a very good exotics vet, and you need to DRIVE a bit more to FIND a good one!

I'm sorry for this behavior, but I am quite disgusted with this thread. And wanting to treat with a med that you know nothing about, nor the proper dosage and just assume that if it doesn't kill him it will help him!? How about dehydrate him more, probably make him more sick and i'm sorry but then i'd wish the poor thing would have passed to save it from his misery!

You need to take the responsibility of a proper animal keeper and do what is best. If they are too far from saving (skins and bones, lethargic, not moving) I would have them euthenised to end their suffering.

 

[turtlebuyer]

As I said before the vet could not get a fecal because it doesnt eat. I have been force feeding it for 3 days and it is pooping so she can get one, it is there now. thanks for all the help. Has anyone had a leo with crypto and did they have any luck curing it Ive been told there is no cure.

Kelly, I am truly sorry about the phone call thing you did not deserve that and I apologise to you and to all these people. And I tell you this, I dont know you that well but if you were to call me in need I would drive to D to help if I could.

 

[groovygeckos]

James, you dont know what the Leo has. Not from looking at pictures. Not from asking questions. Not because your vet 'said so' UNLESS THEY HAVE DONE FECAL TESTS. Dont assume they have crypto, because a heavy load of pretty much ANY parasite can cause that to happen. If it as bad as it sounds, a 'shotgun' treatment just may kill it. That is a technique used on strong animals that appear healthy, not weak and obviously sick ones!

You stated you had another, or others die, correct? Your best bet would have been, to have had fecals done on other Leos, after that happened. Or to have had a necropsy done.

Obviously this Leo was eating, because you state, it has been 'off of food'. Well first time you see something out of the ordinary, especially after an animal has died, you should have had some fecals done then. Or fed it sooner w/ a syringe, so it didnt get to this point, it REALLY helps.

Im assuming you just started tube-feeding, because once I noticed a gecko was not up to par, at the very least Ide be feeding him. Then there would be something to test, it can also help them get started eating for themself.

Also any reptile vet, can get a sample from an animal without it defecating, it may cost extra, but can be worth it, to save time and the animal.

 

[Melle]

when the guy has a phd in veterinary medicine and exotics its enough for me

You are missing the point.

My vet has prescribed a watered down version of the A/D as well for recovering reptiles, and it has worked. No one is saying your vet is wrong about giving you it.
What we are saying is, -human-grade food is bad for leos while dog food is good-, is an incorrect statement. Leos, people, and dogs all have different digestive systems and whatnot. Leos and dogs both being pets, doesnt mean much of anything as they are still two totally different species, just as leos and humans are. Many a human-grade food has worked on helping nurse sick and hungry geckos back to health. And like what was said, a lot of times human stuff is better and more nutritious, with less preservatives (like in baby food). So please dont state it as a fact that human food is bad for leos. Because that is wrong.

Anyhoo, Turtlebuyer, i really hope you can get your leo feeling better soon, let us all know how that fecal goes.