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Ok, another dieing leo

James,
Ihave to ask, just how many Leos have you had prior to this one that have died this way? And if you are buying $300 Leos, are they all from the same breeder? Have you changed any way you are keeping them? Had you taken any of the others to the vet prior to this?
Here are my thoughts-
These, at 300 each, obviously are not pet store Leos, if they are coming from the same place you need to seriously talk to the breeder. It is possible they all are carryign something that when stressed (change of home) went nuts in their system. If they all have come from different breeders then you need to look at your care system. I mean if you get 5 different Leos from 5 different places and they all wind up dying....it is something you are doing. What do u feed them? Could your crickets, or other feeder bug, be carrying something themelves? Are your temps right? Are you stressing them out in some way that their immune systems can not even handle anything they are naturally carrying?
What did the vet say when you took the others in? I mean if they are dropping like flies and have been so in the past, I'd assume you have taken the others in?
The other thought is that if you are bringing new leos in and keeping them in the same enclosure as a previous one who died....then you need to get rid of that enclosure. It could be contaiminated.
My advice would be to not bring another critter in until you know what is happening. It isn't fair to them nor you. And if you don't have a good vet who is capable of disgnosing them, then you are only writing their death certificates if you continue to bring them in. Something is happening. It isup to you to determine if it is the place you are getting them from or if it is something in your home, or the way you are keeping them. (temps, feeder bugs, contaminated housing)
Good luck with it.
 
raiquee said:
I remember Milwaukee getting hit with crypto. We had to boil our water otherwise we could get really sick!

Panacur is also a horse med, but is used for worms. Not to mention when you say your vet wormed your leo, that is probably what she used. Flagyl is used for cats, for fish, and for imported reptiles. No problems with that.

So giving the fruit eating geckos baby food isn't good? Or fresh fruit? Because it's human grade? God give me a break. Do you know what crap they put in dog food? It's better if they do get the real deal rather than a mouthful of perservatives. Well not that human food is very far off.

Tom I really don't want this to sound rude, but you really need to learn more about leos before you start giving people advice. It really could cause a lot of damage. Your new on the scene, learn from others and try to keep and open mind. Your being rather pig-headed!

Marcia's slurry has been used for years now, on numerous geckos. You can't assume after one feeding of your slurry, that its a) good for the gecko b) works for all geckos c) will work again and d) has the correct vit/protien content to properly balance your leos diet.

As for you James, you need to go into your vet, ask for a fecal. She may have wormed him but if he has protozoans then worming meds doesn't help that. She needs to do a FECAL. Pretty much any vet can do a fecal. Once you find out what is causing this disease, you can tell her to give you a treatment accordingly. If not, then this vet isn't a very good exotics vet, and you need to DRIVE a bit more to FIND a good one!

I'm sorry for this behavior, but I am quite disgusted with this thread. And wanting to treat with a med that you know nothing about, nor the proper dosage and just assume that if it doesn't kill him it will help him!? How about dehydrate him more, probably make him more sick and i'm sorry but then i'd wish the poor thing would have passed to save it from his misery!

You need to take the responsibility of a proper animal keeper and do what is best. If they are too far from saving (skins and bones, lethargic, not moving) I would have them euthenised to end their suffering.
Click to expand...

ill accept everything you said here with the exception of that statement. fruit isnt a human food. its a wild food that anything that happens to find it where it grows could eat it. I have no doubts about wild iguanas in florida eating any fruits they may come across. because its natural and not processed in a factory i have to exclude it. as it is not a purely human food. its A food.
 
ShannanD25 said:
James,
Ihave to ask, just how many Leos have you had prior to this one that have died this way? And if you are buying $300 Leos, are they all from the same breeder? Have you changed any way you are keeping them? Had you taken any of the others to the vet prior to this?
Here are my thoughts-
These, at 300 each, obviously are not pet store Leos, if they are coming from the same place you need to seriously talk to the breeder. It is possible they all are carryign something that when stressed (change of home) went nuts in their system. If they all have come from different breeders then you need to look at your care system. I mean if you get 5 different Leos from 5 different places and they all wind up dying....it is something you are doing. What do u feed them? Could your crickets, or other feeder bug, be carrying something themelves? Are your temps right? Are you stressing them out in some way that their immune systems can not even handle anything they are naturally carrying?
What did the vet say when you took the others in? I mean if they are dropping like flies and have been so in the past, I'd assume you have taken the others in?
The other thought is that if you are bringing new leos in and keeping them in the same enclosure as a previous one who died....then you need to get rid of that enclosure. It could be contaiminated.
My advice would be to not bring another critter in until you know what is happening. It isn't fair to them nor you. And if you don't have a good vet who is capable of disgnosing them, then you are only writing their death certificates if you continue to bring them in. Something is happening. It isup to you to determine if it is the place you are getting them from or if it is something in your home, or the way you are keeping them. (temps, feeder bugs, contaminated housing)
Good luck with it.
Click to expand...


Shannon, I think it all started when I bought a geck from a unknown person off the forum. The only others are Tremper, Kelly and Manhatten Herps. It seemed to be doing well but it never grew and eventually it faded away. This disease seems to effect the babies however I did lose 2 half grown T giants.
I took one of them to the vet and she gave me meds for a fungus and worms but I guess that wasnt the problem. The ill animal is at the vet again to get a fecal since I have been force feeding it all weekend and hopefully we will get a answer I would imagine I will lose all of them eventually because all have been exposed in one way or another. I guess I am not meant to raise leos, at first it was the cat eating 4 jungle super giants and now this. I will not buy another. Hey you never did send me that picture :reddevil:
 
I have been folowing this post all along. I had a similar experience last year. I still don't know what was causing it. I ad taken all of mine to the vet and he was unable to find anything wrong with them. I had 10 leos at the time all of them had the same care same temps same food same everything. I had 5 that were dying and 5 that were healthy as could be. I have no idea what it was that effected those five. I had bought them all from different breeders none of them were pets store bought.In the end I got so frustrated I gave the 5 survoving geckos to a freind and I kept only the one baby that I had hatched out myself whom I still have and is doing wonderfully. It is very frustrating.I tried Marcia's slurry I tried a store bough repti aide nothing at all helped.I still thing that it was some from of Crypto as I just can't imagine it being anything else to kill off so many so fast.Where it came from I don't know.I had kept them all in a rack type system no one was togther unless they were bought together and came that way.Oddly enough the few that were together were fine.It seemed to effect the juvies more. Any I bought as adults did fine the babies and juvies were the ones that got sick with the exception of 2.So I do know where you are coming from.I wish I had an answer for you.But I don't and well it just sucks....I wish you the best of luck with the ones you have left. You have to be very very religious in that after handling any one animal you absolutley must wash your hands throughly I personally use bleach then a mild soap.
Robin
 
well I just got off the phone with the vet and she said she found nothing in the fecal, no advice no nothingso what now.
Robin that is exactly it it effects the juvies not the adultsther adults are fine.
 
My suggestion is to wash out every viv you have been using completely...again first a bleach solution let it dry then a mild soap solution let that dry.Everything you have been using...soak it all same way. Any wood type peices I would just toss.Anything that is porous I would toss.I would then wait at least 2 months befor egetting anything new.Let the adults do their thing...eat poop grow...LOL And then when you see all of the adults are fine with no weight loss then and only then...Get 1 leo...see how it does for 2 months...keep everyone seperate...I have found it is the only way to go....Be religios on hand washing between handling animals.The more sanitary you keep things the better off you will be. I am just now looking into getting leos again...It has been 5 months since everything hit the fan here. I still have my one baby boy that I hatched and I really miss having the leos so I am going to give it one more shot.Everything will be seperate and completely sanitary. It has to be. I have raised my own meal worms and will continue to do so.
Robin
 
It is possible it is crypto, if the vet was unable to find anything. They do not normally look for crypto and must use an acid fast stain, to be able to see it.

Ask the vet if they can do specific testing for crypto or send it to a lab.
 
Shannon,
Nope I was not using crickets I was feeding strictly mealies ...but at the time from the petstore I do feel that may have been the source of the sickness actually. I do know of the many many problems with crickets. I had read that original post from Marcia and what was found in the crickets she had sent to the lab.
Robin
 
i use only circkets from petsmart, and occasionally mealies and maybe a pinky as a treat every couple of moths for my big guy. i wanna get ahold of silkworms and see how they do
 
I got myself off of crickets totally. I just really think alot of problems stem from bad feeders....i raise my own mealies and roaches. I have heard too many stories about crickets carrying disease and parasites. now if i could raise my own that would be different as I would know what htey were fed and what they may or may not carry.
 
I'm not sure raising your own would help. It is a fact that crickets just naturally carry some of these parasites. I saw it somewhere and I can't remember where It may have been here at some point.What I do if I have to feed crickets...and I have had some geckos that will only eat crickets...I put in their gutload...parazap...let them get that in their systems for a day or 2 and then use them. So far it has worked.
Robin
 
Crypto is often missed in routine fecals because the parasite is very small and only shed intermittently. Since it inhabits the stomachs of snakes a gastric lavage and an acid fast stain is the most reliable means of detection. Since it infects the intestinal tract of leos, I'd imagine that an intestinal lavage and acid fast staining would be required. It would probably be easiest to diagnose post mortem. It's extremely contagious. You need to wash your hands between handling leos or anything they've touched, no musical food or putting uneaten feeders back in the communal supply, and make sure that your hands are clean when you're handling feeders. Most disinfectants won't work on crypto, cages will need to be cleaned with an ammonia solution. Here's a good page on disinfectants: http://www.cfsph.iastate.edu/BRM/resources/Disinfectants/AntimicrobialSpectrumDisinfectants0904.pdf Crypto should match up with coccidia. If you can confirm crypto it would probably be best to euthanise the infected individuals and keep any that might have been exposed under strict quarantine conditions as long as they live. Depending on what type of caging you're using, it might be worth getting new stuff.

-Alice
 
I don't understand how baby food isn't classified as a "processed food through a factory" Does it grow on the branch in jars? And seeing as we raise our human babys on it, I still consider it a "human grade" product. It was fortified for HUMAN babys. Not for animal babys. But it's still, just as wonderful.

Not to mention all fresh fruits now a days are marketed for human grade. They are covered in perservatives and then shipped barely ripe to ripen in our stores. Washed, sorted etc all by machinery.

All food are "wild items" at one point in time. But now with the human race ever expanding, we are processing practically everything out there. Unless you have your own little garden of veggies and fruit that you don't touch with perservatives, then you are technically feeding an animal a human grade food product.

Which leads me to think, we are humans. Humans are mammals. Making us animals. So really, we are feeding our pets, Animal grade food products.

Interesting, eh?
 
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