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OK guys and gals I need HELP

G

g&mgeckos

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My oldest son came home today with two tiny bearded dragons. A friend of his had a room mate that left them behind when he move out. His friend was going to just let them go outside! So my son thinking I would know what to do brought them home. He got a 20 gallon tank with them and a basking light with a 75 watt bulb. Now for those of you who know me know beardeds aren't my normal thing so I am a little nervous about them. They are so small. Anyway I have some questions and any help will be much appreicated.
I don't know how old they are but they are about 3 to 4 inches in lenght. One wieghts 5 grams the other wieghts 4 grams.

Do they need to be seperated? How old are they when you can sex them?

What is thier normal basking temp. needs? Also what temp for the cool side of the tank? Would a UTH be needed? And they need a UVB light right?

Will paper towels work for a substrate for now since they so small? Or is impaction as big a deal with Beardeds as it is with Leopard Geckos?

How often do they need to be fed? Do I feed them anything besides crickets right now? Will they eat meal worms? What about veggies when do you start offering them and how much?

Also what about vitamins and supplements? Do they get calcium with D3 or without?

I am going to look for care sheets now so I can make a list of supplies I need as it is to late to go to the pet store tonight. But if anyone knows a good care sheet please share the link.
 
To try to answer some of your questions here:

Either the person that left them is hatching babies or they have been badly neglected since they were bought or have parasie problems. These are hatchling size. Hatchlings are 3-4 inches nose to tail tip and weight 3-4 grams when they hatch. After two weeks they are up around 10 grams and grow steady from then on. Even the worst Pet stores around at least sell them at 2-3 weeks old and they are a bit larger. It's hard to imagine someone sold babies that small, but anything is possible.

Baby dragons should have big appetites, they should be eating 20-30 crickets no bigger than the space between their eyes twice a day, plus offering them greens/veggies all day. Once they get around 8 inches that increases to 30-40 crickets twice a day and you can also cut them back to once a day at that time, plus the greens/veggies all day. No mealworms for babies this small, they are high in chitin and baby beardies impact easier than a gecko, although they are larger, they have a short digestive tract until they are around 10 inches.

Be careful in that tiny baby dragons needs and care is very different from one older, baby this small should not be sold as the normal care for older babies can be very deadly to them. The Bearded Dragons Breeder Network Breeder's all agree not to sell them under 6 inches or 6 weeks old, whichever is later as they are so fragile until then.

They can not be on any sands, silica, play, calcisands etc (Dr Mader in his new book also states this and shows photo's of an impacted baby dragon.

They need temps 95-105 (very small ones like it a bit warmer, up to 110, but not higher). Misting a few times a day will help keep them hydrated as hey can dehydrate very easily when that small. They also will need a UVB light(something that I disagree strongly with about some, who state that supplements with D3 can replace a good UVB light). UVB allows them to make D3 in their own skin and also has an effect on the growth homones we believe. We get many rescues and non thrivers in, you can ALWAYS tell the ones that did not have UVB, even if they are only a few months old. On YAhoo Pogona lists, one of the most common issues people come to get help on is trembling and other lack of Calcium and D3 issues.

Here are some care info sheets for babies

Breeder's Network: By Bill Mears/Borderview Dragons
http://new.bearded-dragon-network.com/bvd/dragon.php

Caring for babies
http://www.reptilerooms.com/Sections+index-req-viewarticle-artid-17-page-1.html

Best to you and them, if you need any help with them, please feel free to email or PM me.
 
To try to answer some of your questions here:

Either the person that left them is hatching babies or they have been badly neglected since they were bought or have parasie problems. These are hatchling size. Hatchlings are 3-4 inches nose to tail tip and weight 3-4 grams when they hatch. After two weeks they are up around 10 grams and grow steady from then on. Even the worst Pet stores around at least sell them at 2-3 weeks old and they are a bit larger. It's hard to imagine someone sold babies that small, but anything is possible.

Baby dragons should have big appetites, they should be eating 20-30 crickets no bigger than the space between their eyes twice a day, plus offering them greens/veggies all day. Once they get around 8 inches that increases to 30-40 crickets twice a day and you can also cut them back to once a day at that time, plus the greens/veggies all day. No mealworms for babies this small, they are high in chitin and baby beardies impact easier than a gecko, although they are larger, they have a short digestive tract until they are around 10 inches.

Greens: collards, dandelions, mustards, spring mixes (no spinach)
Veggies: Yellow squash, carrot, green beans, snow peas, bell peppers
This are just a few to get you started, more are listed on many BD sites and iguana sites

Be careful in that tiny baby dragons needs and care is very different from one older, baby this small should not be sold as the normal care for older babies can be very deadly to them. The Bearded Dragons Breeder Network Breeder's all agree not to sell them under 6 inches or 6 weeks old, whichever is later as they are so fragile until then.

They can not be on any sands, silica, play, calcisands etc (Dr Mader in his new book also states this and shows photo's of an impacted baby dragon.

They need temps 95-105 (very small ones like it a bit warmer, up to 110, but not higher). cooler side temps around 75-80. Misting a few times a day will help keep them hydrated as hey can dehydrate very easily when that small. They also will need a UVB light(something that I disagree strongly with about some, who state that supplements with D3 can replace a good UVB light). UVB allows them to make D3 in their own skin and also has an effect on the growth homones we believe. We get many rescues and non thrivers in, you can ALWAYS tell the ones that did not have UVB, even if they are only a few months old. On YAhoo Pogona lists, one of the most common issues people come to get help on is trembling and other lack of Calcium and D3 issues. If you use UVB tubes, then supplement with calcium with D3, if you us MVB, you do not need the D3. Calcium for ones this small should be 5 days a week and the other 2 days use vitamins. Rep_cal ultra fine calcium is a very good one as is their herptivite vitamins. (so is their pellets that you can add on greens, most babies ear those well if they are started early)

No to the UTH, beardies sense heat/light overhead and it is now thought that tummy heats may contribute to parasite blooms in them and they also need dark at night, so no night time lights, even red or blue ones. If they get below 65 at night, you can add a heat emitter or projector. You also do not need the special $7-$12 basking light, a plain household bulb in a dome works just as well for heat

This small they do not need to be separated yet unless you see a problem with them fighting, if girls they may be able to stay together always, male/males and male/female need separated prior to 5 months old( in your case probably about 10 inches,(which is also the size you can accurately sex thems) as they will try to mate, but should be adults before being allowed too (males can prolapse and females can get eggbound when too young) and that is 12-24 months, depending on the dragons lines... in this case, chances are they are siblings and should never be allowed to mate each other. Some breeders can sex them at 2-3 months, but not guaranteed. There is photos on sexing on the links below

Here are some care info sheets for babies and photos to help guide you

Breeder's Network: By Bill Mears/Borderview Dragons
http://new.bearded-dragon-network.com/bvd/dragon.php

Caring for babies/set ups for them
http://www.reptilerooms.com/Sections+index-req-viewarticle-artid-17-page-1.html

Best to you and them, if you need any help with them, please feel free to email or PM me.
 
Thank you for the help. I have read all kinds of care sheets since I first posted the thread. Thanks to everyone that posted, PMed, and emailed me. It really helped alot. We lost one of the babies yesterday. Really :censored: ! But it never did eat well and never seemed to be very healthy. The second one is doing good now though. It has gain some weight and is eating like a lillte pig. It is up to 11 grams now! Not bad in just about two weeks. So hopefully everything will be ok with it. We had fecals done when we first got them and again yesterday after the other passed. Both times they came back clear. It's just very hard putting all the time in and still not being able to save both.
 
Glenn,
With ones that tiny, you were working against the odds, few hatchling separated from their clutch groups and having so many changes in a short time do survive. They are very fragile til about 6 weeks old/6 inches/10 grams. Once you get them to that age, they are more hearty. Once they get to 3 months old, 10 inches or over 20 grams they will do good after that and much easy to raise.

It's a shame some "so called breeders" will sell them under the age of 6 weeks, as the majority will not survive.... but they are more interested in selling them off, rather than taking the time to raise them properly. and the expense to get them to a viable age
 
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