• Responding to email notices you receive.
    **************************************************
    In short, DON'T! Email notices are to ONLY alert you of a reply to your private message or your ad on this site. Replying to the email just wastes your time as it goes NOWHERE, and probably pisses off the person you thought you replied to when they think you just ignored them. So instead of complaining to me about your messages not being replied to from this site via email, please READ that email notice that plainly states what you need to do in order to reply to who you are trying to converse with.

  • IMPORTANT! PLEASE READ!! About the Google Adsense ads being displayed

    =====================
    Posted 08/15/2025
    =====================


    Yeah, I know. They are a pain in the butt. But they pay the bills to keep my server running. Just a fact of life, I am afraid.

    Want to get rid of them? Simple. Just become a Contributor level member or above and they will be gone. -> Please click HERE."

    Is that too much for me to ask of you to keep this site running? Well, sorry about that. I too wish I could get everything for free. But alas.....

    =====================
    Addendum: 01/10/2026
    =====================


    Google Adsense ad revenue for December, 2025 was just $30 over the cost of the lease for the server running this site. So, in effect, the money providing the incentive for me to continue running this site is coming SOLELY from the paid memberships and sponsorships here. Which honestly ain't much....

OMG! I hatched a two-headed dragon!

Mooing Tricycle said:
Oh it dosnt annoy me. but it certainly dosnt make any sense to complain about a site that you are actively using
Click to expand...

I'm not complaining about the site. I'm complaining about the people who are down on breeders who want to make money at whay they do. It's stupid. Fortunately everyone here is not like that, and most of the time I enjoy this site. What crawled up your...oh, nevermind.

Jamie
 
Valley Dragons said:
I'm not complaining about the site. I'm complaining about the people who are down on breeders who want to make money at whay they do. It's stupid. Fortunately everyone here is not like that, and most of the time I enjoy this site. What crawled up your...oh, nevermind.

Jamie
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On edge much? Since you cant tell the Tone of my post, from how i would directly say it to you, i would suggest not assuming that im upset, or annoyed, or any of those feelings.

No, the reason anyone makes that comment most of the time, is because if something is being bred that has a very obvious problem ( in their eyes, everyone feels differently of course, but Generally obvious problem, such as... Oh i dont know, those weird cats with the short legs for example, or silk backs as another visual example) And dosnt give a second thought to the genetic problems on a non visual level, they are considered doing it for the money.

A few random twins here and there, yeah, i can accept that. If it was constant twins, or an obvious reason for you to be trying to breed for more twins, i would look at it differently.

You arent Greedy for the money because you want to make a business out of breeding your animals. One would only consider you to be greedy for the money if you were breeding animals with obvious problems, or traits that could later affect the livelihood of dragons down the line. Things dont have to be immediate, or visible to say there is something wrong.
 
Mooing Tricycle said:
On edge much? Since you cant tell the Tone of my post, from how i would directly say it to you, i would suggest not assuming that im upset, or annoyed, or any of those feelings.

No, the reason anyone makes that comment most of the time, is because if something is being bred that has a very obvious problem ( in their eyes, everyone feels differently of course, but Generally obvious problem, such as... Oh i dont know, those weird cats with the short legs for example, or silk backs as another visual example) And dosnt give a second thought to the genetic problems on a non visual level, they are considered doing it for the money.

A few random twins here and there, yeah, i can accept that. If it was constant twins, or an obvious reason for you to be trying to breed for more twins, i would look at it differently.

You arent Greedy for the money because you want to make a business out of breeding your animals. One would only consider you to be greedy for the money if you were breeding animals with obvious problems, or traits that could later affect the livelihood of dragons down the line. Things dont have to be immediate, or visible to say there is something wrong.
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Sorry if I'm a little touchy on the subject...based on past discussions, I guess I just assumed that I was under attack once again. But even in re-reading, your post still seems a bit snarky...but whatever. No harm done. Just FYI...I plan to breed silkbacks. I have leatherbacks that are het for silkback...it is just a matter of time. And I plan to make a profit doing so. Does that make me greedy? I don't think so. Ammoralistic for producing "freaks" of nature? No. They were produced from a genetic variation that does not cause harm in a captive environment. But you would know that if you did your research.

Wake up and smell the capitalism, baby. :)

(I've always wanted to say that, lol)
 
Valley Dragons said:
Sorry if I'm a little touchy on the subject...based on past discussions, I guess I just assumed that I was under attack once again. But even in re-reading, your post still seems a bit snarky...but whatever. No harm done. Just FYI...I plan to breed silkbacks. I have leatherbacks that are het for silkback...it is just a matter of time. And I plan to make a profit doing so. Does that make me greedy? I don't think so. Ammoralistic for producing "freaks" of nature? No. They were produced from a genetic variation that does not cause harm in a captive environment. But you would know that if you did your research.

Wake up and smell the capitalism, baby. :)

(I've always wanted to say that, lol)
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The only problem i ever had with the silk backs ( and never really got answers to, at that time * i dont keep dragons, mind you, they interest me and maybe some day i will* so i never cared to look up more information regarding the subject at that time) was the questions of if they would be able to handle breeding , and the basking periods and such things.

I feel the same way about those guys, as i do Scaleless snakes( which would be at a much less advantage, not having limbs). But if they require specific care, and their needs can still be met ( and i had this opinion of them on those old threads) then thats all well and good for those that want to take care of them.
I personally would never breed them, and that is, of course, everyones option.

But anyway. this thread is about YOUR dragon, and if it lives, it lives and thats great, i hope it lives a happy life. But also, Im not really one for killing an animal just because it has a deformity, i just wouldnt ever put it into the breeding pool, or allow it to get there by other means. ( not saying you would at all)
 
Mooing Tricycle said:
But anyway. this thread is about YOUR dragon, and if it lives, it lives and thats great, i hope it lives a happy life. But also, Im not really one for killing an animal just because it has a deformity, i just wouldnt ever put it into the breeding pool, or allow it to get there by other means. ( not saying you would at all)
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Thank you. I'll keep everyone updated on how he (or they) is doing.

Jamie :)
 
Mooing Tricycle said:
There are many other sites available if you are not happy with the way things are run here.

Otherwise, this comment is entirely unnecessary, and uncalled for. Fauna is, how Fauna is. Dont like it, Find somewhere else to post where everyone agrees and feels the same way about everything, and everything is happy and merry and covered in chocolate goodness.
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You seem to be telling him to leave because his opinion is different. If you are saying we have a right to disagree here, then let him have his opinion, even if it is critical.

I can't remember when there was a time on this site where everyone was happy with the way things are run here.
 
lucille said:
You seem to be telling him to leave because his opinion is different. If you are saying we have a right to disagree here, then let him have his opinion, even if it is critical.

I can't remember when there was a time on this site where everyone was happy with the way things are run here.
Click to expand...

Her. :)
 
lucille said:
You seem to be telling him to leave because his opinion is different. If you are saying we have a right to disagree here, then let him have his opinion, even if it is critical.

I can't remember when there was a time on this site where everyone was happy with the way things are run here.
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Nope. I think youre reading into it a bit too far there. Disagreeing is fine ( were doing it now arent we? am i telling you to see the door? nope!), but making a comment about it, and saying one is "sick of" the seemingly similar opinions of the site, means something different, and something i will comment on because it makes no sense to me, if a person dosnt like something about a site, and is sick enough of it to say something because another had a differing opinion, who was being polite enough when stating it ( to me, not to everyone). Then yeah, im gonna say "theres the door" it wasnt saying to leave because an opinion cant be stated. It was Saying to leave if it upsets you so much that a comment such as that needed to be made.

If i hated something about this site enough to say something like "man im so sick of people being so confrontational" Yeah, id be told the same thing " theres the door".
 
Valley Dragons said:
Because this issue is brought up again and again in so many posts...

This statement annoys me. Mo' money. Ha. Since when did wanting to make money become such a horrible thing? I LOVE my job...breeding reptiles, that is. I am less than two weeks away from quitting my other job and focusing entirely on the breeding business. I've worked my ass off basically working two full time jobs for over three years to get to this point. Of course I want to make money! I want nothing more than to spend the rest of my life doing exactly what I want to do and being able to support my family in the process. Since when did it become the moral high road to not make money at your job? Good grief! And does this mean that I have no values, or that I care any less about the animals? Of course not! That is ridiculous!

Sorry to go off on a rant, but this forum is filled with way to many "moralistic" bullies, and I'm sick of it.

Jamie :NoNo:
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As Alicia said....there is a big difference between raising reptiles for a living and doing it well, and exploiting genetic defects that could be detrimental to the animals themselves for profit. Kind of like the difference between a quality breeder of dogs, and a puppy mill. Not that I am calling you a "Beardie mill" in any way, just using that as an example. Perhaps it's the whole "quality versus quantity" arguement. However you want to look at it. No one has told you that there's anything wrong with making money, for goodness sakes....it's just the way you can go about doing it. When choosing a living based on a love for animals turns to greed, too often things go awry from even the best of intentions.....and the person in the drivers seat usually can't see it for themselves. :shrug01:

And as I said.....I see no reason to euthanize the little booger, as long as he's doing well. I'd like to see how he grows. I hope he does well.

Lucille said:
You seem to be telling him to leave because his opinion is different.
Click to expand...

You seem to be reading something into Alicia's post that isn't there.
 
Hi Jamie,
Congratulations on the little one (or ones)! :thumbsup:

Vickie

btw - If you do decide to produce Silkbacks, a friend had a UV test done on one of Ruby's sheds... here is part of the email response.

The UVB permeability of the Scaleless Beardie's skin is 15.86%. This compares to a UVB permeability of normal Beardie skin of 5.13%. the difference is probably because of both the scaleless nature of the skin and it being practically albino.

In practice what this does mean is that your Scaleless Beardie is going to be at least three times more sensitive to powerful UVB than a normal.
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OMG

Please don't condemn me on this post. Ethical issues always have 2 sides. There will always be the side that says don't breed this female again, freeze this baby and money money money...

On the other side people find something intrigueing about this unnatural result of breeding. I had a one eyed beardie with subsequent neuro issues 6 weeks after birth. He learned to chase his crix, but eventually he had to have silkies because of his issues. I do not believe he was in any pain..or I would with all my heart taken him to my vet and euthanized him. He now has a concrete marker in my garden with his name"Buddy" carved in it.

Is the curiosity bad. Is the genuinely comapssionate nature to see what happens bad?
I am not one to make a godly judment on this predicament. This being said,
I don't think its wrong to want to make money when you breed your beardies. If someone showed unethical, or bs business tactics, it would be known. That being said, I do believe that Jamie has shown her true colors and I believe in those colors. And believe me if someone shows tainted colors I would be the 1st to say so. Take good care all, Respectfully, Beth
 
If it can survive on it's own there is certainly no need to euthanize. Does the mom have a history of producing these 2 headed ones? If so you should retire her asap.
 
Jamie, Awesome looking dragon! Best of luck caring for it. I hope it lives a long healthy life.
Jeff
 
The little guy is alive and well this mornng...we made it through our first night! Both heads seem active and alert. It is so strange...one will look up at me, and then the other will turn to look at me, lol.

Jamie :)
 
That's Great! It should be interesting when they begin feeding. What if one head wants to go one way to chase a bug and the other wants to go another way for a bug. Can be difficult. Hopefully it will survive. Best of Luck!
 
That is too cool! Talk about your split personalities. I wonder if they know the other is there yet. Could you imagine having a second head you didn't know about? It could make one quite schizophrenic.
 
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