Info on record / Debbie Prince

[Lucille]

It sounds like you want to offer a solution Debbie, and that is the biggest step. Why don't y'all think about possible solutions that would work and that would leave a happy scustomer. Y'all are halfway there now.

 

[dprince]

ok I didnt add correctly but you still didnt take a loss..you profitted .
just needed to correct my addition which is irrelevant .

Toni, I would LOVE it if you would post that invoice. That invoice is for the het carmel glow pair AND a het lavendar albino pair that I purchased at the same time. The price for the het caramel glow pair was $2000, and the price for the lavendar albino pair was $1750, for a total of $3750. I have my bank statement as well that states that much was spent, as well as the invoice, so.........not sure what you're talking about?

Also, can you please post the emails where you are asking for my phone number? Because I never received them. Thanks.

 

[147boas]

debbie i would not want a nother snke fom you what so yoou can go through the entire ordeal again i think you should refund the money

 

[wyldwurm]

Debbie, I don't know why you would choose not to answer my question. WHY do you refuse a refund?

You asked for proof and got it. So much so, that you felt obligated enough to offer a replacement. She does not want a replacement for obvious reasons.

I can understand not wanting to take *another* hit on an animal, but clearly the bigger hit would come from this thread. You are not doing yourself or your business any good here. I don't have tons of disposable cash to spend on snakes, so personally, I would have serious doubts about sending you money. If something went wrong, would I be treated this way? I don't think I would want to take that chance.

I have heard many good things about you and I really don't see you as a "bad guy". I know you want to do right by your customers. You have admitted your mistake. EVERYONE is allowed to make mistakes. Is the price you lose now really worth the price it will cost your business by not making this right?

I wish both parties well and really hope things can be mended. Both seem like good peeps who had something bad happen to a good animal.

 

[myminskins]

Just as an aside..........not that it matters as I have AGREED TO REPLACE THE SNAKE......the screenshot provided (from my old terms page) is missing the "We reserve the right to refuse a guarantee due to improper care or husbandry" part. If someone who is computer savvy knows how to do this (I cannot figure out how to do it from the past webpages), that would be great.

The reason I took my phone number off of the webpage had NOTHING to do with this issue. I was getting multiple calls DAILY from folks whom I'd never done business with and were not interested in purchasing geckos from me. They would ask me all kinds of questions that are clearly stated on my webpage. I got two calls on Christmas day, for heaven's sake!! The last straw was when I got a call when I was in the hospital just after I'd had my baby. It's not that I don't want to help people, I just got really tired of the same phone calls asking the same questions that are clearly posted on my website. Honestly, I didn't think at all about Toni in this decision because she already had my phone number, and I *never* received any email asking me again for my phone number.


###Debbie yes I have the emails asking for your # in more than one . you replied to them leaving out your # ...so yes if you look I am sure you didnt delete only those . Stop calling me a liar in every post .

heres one..am too tired to lool at all these emails again for the rest but I can tomorrow.
from Toni Stephens <[email protected]>
to Debbie Prince <[email protected]>
date Wed, Feb 18, 2009 at 10:02 AM
subject Re: shipping
mailed-by gmail.com


870-534-0218 is their ph #
I have recieved all my snakes there except 2 at delta cargo .
I called this mornig and they are expecting them tomorrow .
The people at the fed ex 800 # told me about doing it this way last yr and it has worked well. They have a building with office and the truck bay .
They take them inside and when I get there they cut the box open so we can check them . I will call you once I get them opened tomorrow morning . give me your ph # again please.The hospital lost my damn tablet with my addresses and ph #'s.
Thanks,
Toni

i dont trust the fed ex delivery to my home ..they suck and i dont feel they would deliver them to me so that is why i use the station.
- Show quoted text -




As for the reason I changed my terms, it had a lot to do with another conversation I had with a breeder about what we can REALLY guarantee and have control over live animals - especially once other folks' have them. One of the issues with leopard geckos is that sometimes they don't eat right away after being shipped (not unusual for many reptiles). I get emails all the time after someone receives a gecko about how they aren't eating, which is really common. In my old guarantee, I "guaranteed" that they were eating (which to ME means that in my care, they have been eating), but people might think that because the gecko didn't eat right away - sometimes not for weeks - that they were sold an unhealthy animal. This is an actual scenario that happened to me - I took back the animal after 7 days because it wasn't eating super worms (which I had encouraged her NOT to feed, and to feed mealworms instead, and this was after I had tried to tell her that this could be normal for leopard geckos.) I had to quarantine that animal for 60 days, because I didn't know what care it had received, had it been kept on sand, etc. I can honestly say that this incident also played into my decision to change my terms (though I've ALWAYS had the right to refuse any guarantee up since the inception of my website.) IRREGARDLESS OF THESE CHANGES, I HAVE OFFERED TO REPLACE THE SNAKE prior to even being brought to the BOI.


### that had nothing to do with my daughter and me and this animal.
I told you we didnt feel comfortable with another animal from you and that we wanted a refund . Then you told me no and again blamed me for the condition of this animal . That was the last straw Debbie .
If you go back to my very 1st post on here you can see that it was the last straw and hopefully understand why .


I don't currently have baby snakes, and Toni mentioned the possible IBD, which is part of the reason for the six month period. If she wanted a replacement snake now, though it hasn't been discussed, I could offer her a snake in my current collection.

### Debbie you can email me but do not pm me .Do not call me . I want copies of everything that transpires .


The reason I didn't immediately ask for proof, or jump to taking the snake back and offering a refund was two fold. One, I was VERY post-pardum (FIVE DAYS), and quite honestly may not have put as much thought into my initial responses as I could have, which I apologize for. When I had more time and sleep, I suggested she take the snake to the vet (which she denies I ever did).

### is there some reason you cannot post without making things up about me to look better . you told me it was shipping stress maybe but you didnt have any advice .


Also, I admittedly don't currently have $1500 to send. This is a tough economy, and I am the soul provider in my home (with my husband and four kids), and $1500 is a lot of money (which is why I sold the snakes in the first place.) I am currently on maternity leave. I understand it is a lot of money to Toni as well, which is why I'm trying to resolve this. The last email I received from Toni just this morning stated that she wanted me to sell the replacement for her and just give her the money. I hadn't even had time to respond before this was brought to the BOI.


### please ..you were told the same thing on the night I called you from the vet crying . you are not my victim debbie .


Bottom line is, the snake was fine when it left my care, and somewhere along the line, something clearly happened. The vet report clearly proves that, which I have never argued. I'm trying to make this right as best as I can. If people choose not to do business with me as a result, that is hugely unfortunate, because I honestly am trying.

### I havent seen you try . I see you making things up in every single post..blaming and denying...Lets move on through this and put it behind .

 

[jasballs]

John, the discussion is about a caramel albino bp that seems to have serious health issues.

Ed, Fuck you!

 

[myminskins]

Toni, I would LOVE it if you would post that invoice. That invoice is for the het carmel glow pair AND a het lavendar albino pair that I purchased at the same time. The price for the het caramel glow pair was $2000, and the price for the lavendar albino pair was $1750, for a total of $3750. I have my bank statement as well that states that much was spent, as well as the invoice, so.........not sure what you're talking about?

You stated you lost money on the whole deal and therefore you werent flipping .
Actually that isnt acurate . But your profit has nothing to do with our situation...just very tired and tired of the bs .

Also, can you please post the emails where you are asking for my phone number? Because I never received them. Thanks.

I did .

 

[dprince]

It sounds like you want to offer a solution Debbie, and that is the biggest step. Why don't y'all think about possible solutions that would work and that would leave a happy scustomer. Y'all are halfway there now.

I have been trying ALL ALONG. I appreciate that you can see that. It's also in my emails - I've not hidden anything, even if it could be seen as detrimental. I'm trying to be as open and honest as I can, and I have offered to replace the animal MULTIPLE TIMES (which is the resolution I can do.) I've NEVER said I wouldn't work with Toni, stand behind this snake, or any other thing. However, by her calling me a liar (ie: how I *made* a profit on these snakes, which I can disprove) and telling untruths (ie: I told her to just toss it in the freezer, or that I kept telling her it would get better), it really wears on me to try and find a solution.

 

[Dennis Hultman]

Well not going to hit all the points made already instead why not see if the two of you can come to agreement that is acceptable.

The last email I received from Toni just this morning stated that she wanted me to sell the replacement for her and just give her the money. I hadn't even had time to respond before this was brought to the BOI.

Toni, if that is what you suggested it seems that this could be worked fairly for you. That seems like a reasonable request. I know in the beginning you were asking for a replacement or refund and I understand your statements why you later just wanted out and to get your funds back.

She has been offering a replacement and admittedly doesn't have the funds to send.

If she wanted a replacement snake now, though it hasn't been discussed, I could offer her a snake in my current collection.

Deb, working on the assumption that it's not IBD and you did send a healthy appearing snake maybe selling one from your collection would be the better alternative than letting the customer wait six months.

Taking your word on the fact you sent a healthy snake (which at this point I have no reason to think your being untruthful about that fact) I would have to assume the snake was damaged in shipping. If that is the case and you don't have the funds to send, selling a snake in your current collection might be the best option considering she doesn't want to accept another from you. If you are willing to give her an established animal in your collection, I don't see any difference between sending it to her or selling it. It's just going to cost you a little time. I think she would rather not wait six months plus for you to sell a baby that hasn't been born yet.

 

[Dennis Hultman]

Debbie, I don't know why you would choose not to answer my question. WHY do you refuse a refund?

_________

Also, I admittedly don't currently have $1500 to send.

 

[wyldwurm]

Thanks Dennis.

 

[myminskins]

I did .

balls in your court debbie .

 

[dprince]

### I havent seen you try . I see you making things up in every single post..blaming and denying...Lets move on through this and put it behind .

Every single post? Really? The offer to replace the snake (which is one of the suggestions YOU had offered in multiple emails) isn't trying? YOU had suggested - just this am - that I take the replacement, sell it, and give you the money. You never even waited for a response from me before posting this thread!! That might have been an amicable solution, Toni. Now? You're trashing my reputation and hoping THAT is going to make me cough up $1500?

BTW, where are those emails where you've asked for my phone number? I can't find them - perhaps you can forward them to a moderator for verificaiton? Because I NEVER RECEIVED THEM.

 

[myminskins]

Debbie, I don't know why you would choose not to answer my question. WHY do you refuse a refund?

You asked for proof and got it. So much so, that you felt obligated enough to offer a replacement. She does not want a replacement for obvious reasons.

I can understand not wanting to take *another* hit on an animal, but clearly the bigger hit would come from this thread. You are not doing yourself or your business any good here. I don't have tons of disposable cash to spend on snakes, so personally, I would have serious doubts about sending you money. If something went wrong, would I be treated this way? I don't think I would want to take that chance.

I have heard many good things about you and I really don't see you as a "bad guy". I know you want to do right by your customers. You have admitted your mistake. EVERYONE is allowed to make mistakes. Is the price you lose now really worth the price it will cost your business by not making this right?

I wish both parties well and really hope things can be mended. Both seem like good peeps who had something bad happen to a good animal.

She is a beautiful animal with so much hard work ,planning and patience behind her by the original breeder . It has been heart wrenching to see her this way .

 

[147boas]

whats the problem debbie give her the money back
do the honorable thing debbie

 

[myminskins]

Every single post? Really? The offer to replace the snake (which is one of the suggestions YOU had offered in multiple emails) isn't trying? YOU had suggested - just this am - that I take the replacement, sell it, and give you the money. You never even waited for a response from me before posting this thread!! That might have been an amicable solution, Toni. Now? You're trashing my reputation and hoping THAT is going to make me cough up $1500?

BTW, where are those emails where you've asked for my phone number? I can't find them - perhaps you can forward them to a moderator for verificaiton? Because I NEVER RECEIVED THEM.

Debbie you are trashing your own reputation ...with each post.I am standing up for myself and the Truth . I can see that makes you angry . I dont know what else to say to you . Do not email me,call me or pm me . You can tell me on here what you are going to do or not do .
Not really open to negotiation . I wish to be done with you .
You had plenty of time and your reply was it was my fault ...even after getting the letter from the vet . Sorry but that was the last straw .
So in this post let me guess you are now saying you are not going to do the right thing yet again....and blaming me for it yet again .

Here you go again debbie .


from Toni Stephens <[email protected]>
to Debbie Prince <[email protected]>
date Wed, Feb 18, 2009 at 10:02 AM
subject Re: shipping
mailed-by gmail.com
870-534-0218 is their ph #
I have recieved all my snakes there except 2 at delta cargo .
I called this mornig and they are expecting them tomorrow .
The people at the fed ex 800 # told me about doing it this way last yr and it has worked well. They have a building with office and the truck bay .
They take them inside and when I get there they cut the box open so we can check them . I will call you once I get them opened tomorrow morning . give me your ph # again please.The hospital lost my damn tablet with my addresses and ph #'s.
Thanks,
Toni

i dont trust the fed ex delivery to my home ..they suck and i dont feel they would deliver them to me so that is why i use the station.
- Show quoted text -

 

[spawn]

Does the offer of a replacement animal not count?


It counts, it just sounds like you've got quite an unpleasable customer on your hands now. You don't have the money, so you're in quite a pickle here.

Personally, I wouldn't refund money for an animal unless I received solid proof it died or I got the animal back in the mail. But, I'm not a business and I don't know what that's truly like to please a customer just to get on with business.

Just as an aside..........not that it matters as I have AGREED TO REPLACE THE SNAKE......the screenshot provided (from my old terms page) is missing the "We reserve the right to refuse a guarantee due to improper care or husbandry" part. If someone who is computer savvy knows how to do this (I cannot figure out how to do it from the past webpages), that would be great.

Here you go:

But I really don't think poor care/husbandry is to blame here...sorry.

 

[myminskins]

Well not going to hit all the points made already instead why not see if the two of you can come to agreement that is acceptable.



Toni, if that is what you suggested it seems that this could be worked fairly for you. That seems like a reasonable request. I know in the beginning you were asking for a replacement or refund and I understand your statements why you later just wanted out and to get your funds back.

She has been offering a replacement and admittedly doesn't have the funds to send.



Deb, working on the assumption that it's not IBD and you did send a healthy appearing snake maybe selling one from your collection would be the better alternative than letting the customer wait six months.

Taking your word on the fact you sent a healthy snake (which at this point I have no reason to think your being untruthful about that fact) I would have to assume the snake was damaged in shipping. If that is the case and you don't have the funds to send, selling a snake in your current collection might be the best option considering she doesn't want to accept another from you. If you are willing to give her an established animal in your collection, I don't see any difference between sending it to her or selling it. It's just going to cost you a little time. I think she would rather not wait six months plus for you to sell a baby that hasn't been born yet.

Thats a great idea . What about the vet costs ? Debbie going to cover that ?
Thank you !

 

[Dennis Hultman]

It's just a suggestion and please don't think that I'm asking or telling anyone what to post. I don't think the tit- for- tat posts really helps anything or brings resolution any closer for the both of you.
There was an offer on the table to send a replacement she doesn't have the funds to send. There was a suggestion for the seller to sell the replacement instead of sending the animal. The buyer would receive the funds instead of another animal. Seems like the buyer would be satisfied getting their money back and the seller would be essential sending a replacement as she was willing to do but to someone else. Instead of continuing countering each others points in previous posts, how about working from that point and coming up with a time line to get it done? Just a suggestion.

 

[Dennis Hultman]

Thats a great idea . What about the vet costs ? Debbie going to cover that ?
Thank you !

You need to ask her. But hey, you have a starting point you two should be able to work from there.