Info on record / Debbie Prince

[Wolfy-hound]

And no word on returning the snake.
I only see one party trying to resolve it.

Debbie may have screwed up by not offering to immediately take the snake back, but Toni is the one misbehaving now. Debbie has the inadequate excuse of giving birth for her screw up and stalling. What is Toni's?

 

[BryonsBoas]

Bottom line is that it shouldn't have been Toni's responsibility to jump through hoops for a seller that didn't want to accept responsibility. Ultimately the responsibility is with the seller until the buyer is happy - Toni never was.

Had Debbie done the right thing on day one, two or even three this wouldn't be an issue. But a month into the drama she still wasn't ready to accept responsibility. It took making it public for her to begrudgingly do a half-assed version of the right thing.

Toni being due a refund has been hashed out and I think we are past who jumped thru what hoop & why. If any of us received the same animal in the same condition and got the same customer service, would we jump thru the same hoops for the animal? It happens more than it should but it happens.

No one is saying Debbie handled this well, she sucked on her end of the deal. Begrudgingly or not, she has offered to refund the purchase price and I believe she should be liable for the initial vet visit & blood smears.

With the animal sitting at the vet racking up boarding costs, Toni getting her refund is no longer the bottom line. The bottom line now is the vet bill is more than just an office visit & blood smears. The point folks are getting hung up on is that the whole IBD thing had Toni so worried about her collection that she took the Vet's advice to keep it away from her collection. Yet in that same advice, the Vet and Toni seem to be fine having two " exposed " animals in her q-rack. I'm not seeing where 2+2 = 4 here. If her vet is so worried and Toni is so worried, why are the other two " exposed " animals in her Q-rack and not at the vet? If the exposed animals are fine being in her q-rack, why is the other not? I didn't see a mention of mites to give either of them the willys about transfer that way.

At the rate things are going, the next subject will be $1500 in Debbie's hand for the refund but it'll cost another $1k - 1500 to get the snake out the Vet's office to return to her. From what I'm getting from Toni's posts, Debbie will not be getting the snake back at all and still expects all vet bills to be added to her refund, negative results or otherwise.

If Toni is worried about loosing evidence towards a lawsuit, is it really in her best interest to rack up 3 - 6 months boarding costs before a necropsy? If the animal comes back negative, I'm pretty sure it will, can Toni really afford the vet bills since she won't have any damning evidence to sue Debbie over to recoup her costs? If the "exposed" animals are OK being in her rack, then the one at the Vet should be OK there as well. Its not like she can't take it back to vet if it does go belly up.

From what I'm seeing, the seller started out rather childishly callous, now the OP is taking her turn.

While I'm here, can someone point out why these questions are so hard to answer or why we shouldn't be asking the OP questions to get a better idea of whats going on?

 

[MikeCurtin]

It's still being boarded at the vet because Debbie said that she could keep the snake until she had the refund.

It is being boarded at the vet to prove a point. Toni is willing to accept the risk of keeping the other 2 snakes that were exposed, but not this one? I don't buy it...she's trying to stick it to Debbie.

It's not Toni's fault Debbie wouldn't stand behind her animal - Debbie shot down her own reputation when she refused to do the right thing. Personally I'd rather not have people like that in this hobby/business but that is just my opinion.

Debbie screwed up...we get it! She has since tried to correct her error. Toni's not looking too good either at this point. I'm happy to have both of them in this hobby if they correct their behavior...Debbie seems to be making an attempt.

I'll stay out of it from here wouldn't want to cause you any unnecessary eye injuries.

My eyes thank you, but it would suffice if perhaps you just start looking at how to resolve this instead of who screwed up when and how.

 

[Masonexotics]

I mean that I would not sell the OP inanimate objects if it meant paying my rent.
...
One of my bp's last night is willing to look upside down for quite a long time. Almost like a bendy buddy. A couple of others weren't as cooperative, but with good timing, I think I can replicate each one of those photos.

Debbie had asked for a vet report on Feb 22, but it took 36 days to get one. Toni should have been more timely on this. Debbie should have been all over the "stick it in a box and ship it back". If I were the seller, I'd have foregone the vet report and such. A refund for the snake at that time was probably warranted because she couldn't replace it with an equal or better snake at that time. And the faster it gets back, the less likely it is that the buyer cooked it.

I think it smells that it's taken two months for this to appear here. I also think it smells that a python with IBD isn't dead yet. And that it eats and poops. (It's not IBD, it's probably been cooked)

I'll back off my stance that someone is trying to rip Debbie off, but I'm not convinced that someone's not.

If the concern about IBD is so great (as it should be), then why are the other two snakes still at your house? Being in a box for 16 hours with an IBD snake is kind of like huddling in a phone booth with someone that has smallpox. For 16 hours.

you are consistantly ignoring one of the keuy points here.


the main reason for any delay was the seller fobbing off the buyer with BS excuses. If they seller had not tried to pass this all off as "shipping stress" then "poor husbandry" the whole process could have started muhc sooner.


It was the sellers unwillingness to do the right thing that caused this to be such a protracted deal.

She's broke, she tried to lie/mislead/fob off the buyer with excuses.

If she had asked for a vet report or the snake back on day one then i'm sure we wouldn't be here, instead she tried top make out this was just something that can happen when shipping ball pythons.

well it is, but only if you either ship a sick ball python and/or package it woefully incorrectly.

Reading your version of events you'd think the seller was standing behind her animals and doing everyhting she can to make it right, when the reality is the opposite is true, or at least was for a while.

she tried every excuse in the book to get out of making this right from trying to blame the buyer to shipping to changing her TOS.


Is the buyer acting like a mature adult? No.

Is this event indicative of a good ball python breeder (seller)? No,
I wouldn't consider making a high dollar purchase from her now and I suspect many others are the same.

I think you're all getting a liottle sidetracked here, regardless of how the OP is handling herself now (which i'm not defending at all) the crux oif this matter is she was sent a ball python that wasn't as advertised and regardless of if we can all agree on how correct her actions since then are i'm sure we can all agree she's out $1500 (or whatever) on the python and then (again through no fault of her own) several hundred dollars more in vets fees. She then had to experience what can only be described as a seller trying everyhting to get out of reimbursing her for the animal. It's not unbelievable that she's a little pissed.

So putting all that aside.


Does Debbie want the snake shipping back to her? If so, when?

When will the seller be getting the refund she so CLEARLY deserves?

 

[Uroboros]

It's still being boarded at the vet because Debbie said that she could keep the snake until she had the refund.

And that is Toni's decision to board it and it is her bill to pay. (I was looking for a smarmier smiley, but this was what I could come up with)

 

[Uroboros]

the main reason for any delay was the seller fobbing off the buyer with BS excuses. If they seller had not tried to pass this all off as "shipping stress" then "poor husbandry" the whole process could have started muhc sooner.

That IS the point of this thread.

My point is that it should have happened a long time ago. Shipping stress can do funny things. I would totally agree that three or four days should be allowed to let the snake settle. After that, the buyer should have become more, hmm, active in pursuing a solution.

It took more than a month to comply with the seller's request, that's unreasonable. On top of that, Toni thinks that boarding the snake at the vet will be paid for by Debbie, that's unreasonable.

Toni is completely due a refund. Debbie is completely due a snake that hasn't been euthanized.

Toni's insistance on killing the snake is suspicious to me. Her allowing the other two snakes to live at her house when this one is not, is suspicious, too.

 

[Uroboros]

(again through no fault of her own) several hundred dollars more in vets fees.

That's the part I'm questioning. This was her decision. If it's being boarded at the vet due to it's contagiousness, where are the other two snakes? If she is so scared of IBD (as anyone should be), why are the other two snakes not at the vet as well?

 

[Masonexotics]

I get that, we've all read your posts. Like I said in my post i'm not defending her current behavior or the way she's acting. what I also don't get is why you're focusing on these issues when the point of the thread is the buyer got shafted and the seller still hasn't done anything about it!

you're getting hung up on things that you view as suspicous and somehow managing to ignore the fact that the seller has acted like the very image of scumbaggery right the way through this whole affair.

Poor packing/shipping
blatant lies about helath issues (shipping stress - if she really thinks that it's time to stop keeping, breeding and selling royalsd pythons.)
TOS change
Refusal to accept snake back in first instance
No indication of being able to make it right appart from on her own (completely unacceptable) terms - offering replacement snake sometime in the furture possible, if she ever has one.
Ignoring the buyer

etc, etc, etc.

Seems to me you have a massive problem wiht the buyer over some really small issues when compared to how the seller has acted, and treated the buyer, throughout.

I'm not here for a fight, I know neither party and have no vested interests here.

The buyer DID try and sort this directly, the seller first lied, then avoided her.

 

[Uroboros]

Seems to me you have a massive problem wiht the buyer over some really small issues

Yeah, killing a snake that doesn't have IBD is not a small issue to me.

The buyer DID try and sort this directly, the seller first lied, then avoided her.

My ONLY beef there is that it took a month too long to get here and Toni is racking up vet bills that she intends on sticking to Debbie.

 

[Masonexotics]

Yeah, killing a snake that doesn't have IBD is not a small issue to me.



My ONLY beef there is that it took a month too long to get here and Toni is racking up vet bills that she intends on sticking to Debbie.

1 - There are still plenty of things it COULD be, and theres no way of knowing it doens't have IBD at this stage (don't take this the wrong way, I doubt it has, but we don't know that, neither does the buyer, seller or vet at this stage). IBD is not the only thing this could be, it still could be a medical problem. Again not saying the snake should be euthanised just trying to pint out it's not as world-shattering and immoral as you are trying to paint it.

You're also forgetting that up unti the involvement of the BOI the seller had refused shipment of the snake, what other options was the buyer left with? she was backed into this corner by the buyers actions (or lack thereof).

Ia gree that the snake should not be euthanised, and if'when the seller finally agrees to send a payment and etails a timescale I sincerily hope the buyer does the right thing and ships the snake back. HOWEVER I do no beleive the buyer is motivated by some sort of need for revenge.

2 - The most part of the delay was caused by the sellers attempts to fob off the buyer. The buyer says she had several weeks of being completely ignored and lied to. Like i've said from the off this wouldn't be happening had the seller not acted like a scumbag scammer in the first place.

If this thread hadbeen about someone less than liked by the BOI masses, say someonelike Dan Scolaro or Ed clark, then I don't see anyone defending them.

Sure, the buyer hasn't and isn't handling herself perfectly, buty don't let that detract from the fact that SHE is the one that has been done out of a couple of grand.

so you're not happy with the amount of time she took, time to get over that because it really, really has no bearing on the issue at hand, which is her getting her money back and returning that snake.

 

[Wolfy-hound]

Actually, very early on the seller asked for a vet report, and I believe mentioned it in two seperate emails. If she was waiting for the vet to say "Yes the snake is wacko" before she decided, then Yes the weeks of delay should not be counted as "the seller ignored her for weeks".

Another thing I've wondered. She said several times that the "foil packs fell over on the snakes".
But she's said that the snakes were packed so tightly the one snake at the bottom could not breathe.
I'm having issues seeing how there is room for a foil sheet to "fall over" if it's crammed in there. I've gotten snakes in smaller boxes than the one shown. I would have prefered a larger box, but I didn't think it was a huge issue, and none of the snakes were damaged. I've also received a large order, and there were SMALLER snakes on the bottom, with 4-5 snakes on top of them, and they were fine.
It wasn't good packing at all, but I seriously think it's more the heating than the "crowding" or "squishing" issue.

Despite all the going over and over of details of what did happen, might have happened, and could have happened, it still stands...
Debbie offered to take the snake back and give a refund.
Why doesn't Toni want to return the snake and get a refund? Why are the other two snakes (supposedly exposed) not mentioned?

 

[hhmoore]

My ONLY beef there is that it took a month too long to get here and Toni is racking up vet bills that she intends on sticking to Debbie.

Well, that puts Toni in a no win situation, because (almost certainly) if she had posted a month ago, somebody would have told her she was posting prematurely - that she needed to try to work things out with Deb, and get some answers from the vet prior to making a stink. I think she gave Debbie ample time to deal with the situation.
The "report" posted is simply a letter from the vet, aimed at the seller, supporting the client's effort to get a refund. My vet has offered to do the same for me when I brought in animals that arrived in poor condition (yeah, I occasionally go straight to the vet, lol). The problem is, it was long overdue. The snake should have been evaluated sooner, and that letter should have been written the day of the initial exam & immediately sent to Debbie; that way, there would have been prompt, professional confirmation that the snake had serious issues. Unfortunately, though respectably, Toni took extra time to find a vet with reptile experience.
Toni's refund shouldn't have been subject to conditions of testing & specific diagnoses. Immediate confirmation that the animals was up should have been enough. Upon receipt of that, Debbie should have stepped up to make this right.
While I can understand Toni's concerns about her other animals, it isn't as if they haven't already been exposed (if this is a communicable illness) - this snake was there for 8 days before being brought to the vet, and the 2 shipped with it are still there. Without a breakdown of the bill, it's hard to give a realistic assessment of what portion Debbie might be responsible for...

 

[BryonsBoas]

Speaking for myself, I never said Toni wasn't owed a refund.I never said Debbie wasn't in the wrong either.

What I am saying tho, is the whole leaving the animal at vet racking up boarding fees after its been in racks and the other two are still in her racks is asinine. Whether its heat related, IBD, pneumonia or whatever, exposure has been made prior to vet's advice and " exposed animals " are still in her Q-rack.

I tried to see this as following the vet's advice but why even bother if your going to leave 2 other animals that were shipped with the one at the Vet's in her rack at HOME? Knowing there are two " exposed " animals still in her home makes the Vet bill for boarding not exactly on the up & up.

The way I'm seeing it, the boarding bill is on Toni. The vet visit & blood testing is on Debbie.

Why am I hung up on this? Because the situation is terribly stupid and looking to get outright ignorant before its over. If Debbie requires the snake back before she issues a refund or even after Toni gets the refund and its been sitting at the vet office for 3 months, is Toni going to run down there and be able to get out to return it? Is boarding it to prove a point really worth the future hassle?

 

[MikeCurtin]

Has anyone noticed a very obvious absence of both the buyer and seller?

 

[hhmoore]

What question ? Did I answer because I am getting off here again and will be out of town tomorrow ....maybe longer depending on my Dr appt .
Be on here just a few min longer .

Posted yesterday

 

[MikeCurtin]

Thanks, Harald...missed that.

 

[Chico Reptiles]

Debbie offered to take the snake back and give a refund.
Why doesn't Toni want to return the snake and get a refund?

Because Debbie does not have the money to refund.

Bottom line, refund the money (now, not later) return the snake. Debbies pays for the vet stuff she asked for. Done deal..... IMO

 

[BryonsBoas]

Because Debbie does not have the money to refund.

Bottom line, refund the money (now, not later) return the snake. Debbies pays for the vet stuff she asked for. Done deal..... IMO

There is a bit more to it now. Debbie authorized the vet visit & blood smears but did not authorize the boarding at the vet office.

I really am looking at this from both sides.

As a customer, I would expect the seller to either refund, replace or cover vet expenses. I would also remain in contact with the seller over the treatment & testing fees.

As a seller, I would offer a refund, replacement or to cover the vet fees. However agreeing to vet fees doesn't mean the customer gets free reign to let the vet tap dance all over my bill without my OKing the treatment or testing. If I chose to send the customer to vet and the customer agreed, the vet's office would need to call me to arrange billing me direct and another call to authorize the treatment & testing.

A seller agreeing to a vet visit does not give the customer leeway to rack up expenses willy nilly on the sellers dime. If the seller is covering it, its up to the seller to determine how much of a financial loss he/she is willing to take on a vet bill before they look at another option.

 

[lanceheads]

Speaking for myself, I never said Toni wasn't owed a refund.I never said Debbie wasn't in the wrong either.

What I am saying tho, is the whole leaving the animal at vet racking up boarding fees after its been in racks and the other two are still in her racks is asinine. Whether its heat related, IBD, pneumonia or whatever, exposure has been made prior to vet's advice and " exposed animals " are still in her Q-rack.

I tried to see this as following the vet's advice but why even bother if your going to leave 2 other animals that were shipped with the one at the Vet's in her rack at HOME? Knowing there are two " exposed " animals still in her home makes the Vet bill for boarding not exactly on the up & up.

The way I'm seeing it, the boarding bill is on Toni. The vet visit & blood testing is on Debbie.

Why am I hung up on this? Because the situation is terribly stupid and looking to get outright ignorant before its over. If Debbie requires the snake back before she issues a refund or even after Toni gets the refund and its been sitting at the vet office for 3 months, is Toni going to run down there and be able to get out to return it? Is boarding it to prove a point really worth the future hassle?

AMEN!

Randal Berry

 

[Chico Reptiles]

Because Debbie does not have the money to refund.

Bottom line, refund the money (now, not later) return the snake. Debbies pays for the vet stuff she asked for. Done deal..... IMO

As I stated