Onyx Breeding Question

[madusa]

Attached is a pic of the result of a Onyx (Barnhart) to a Pastel Ivory...We believe the four on the left are Black Pastel Y.B.'s; The one in the center a Pastel Het Red Y.B.; the top right a Onyx Y.B. & the bottom right a Pastel Onyx Y.B.

Half the breeders we've sent this pic to agree w/the results, the other half are not sure because they don't work w/ Onyx & one believes gargoyles and onyx morphs are allelic, so both parents need to have a copy of either het red or black pastel to reproduce gargoyles and onyx's.

So there it is...I would appreciate any comments from those who have a handle on this issue...According to the Morph List Genetic Wizard, the results we think we produced are possible.

 

[snakesRkewl]

Half the breeders we've sent this pic to agree w/the results, the other half are not sure because they don't work w/ Onyx & one believes gargoyles and onyx morphs are allelic, so both parents need to have a copy of either het red or black pastel to reproduce gargoyles and onyx's.

Allelic means the genes land on the same allele so they act like a super and throw no normals.
I do not think that either of those combos are allelic, but I could be wrong?

By the pics I'd say you called them correctly.

 

[hhmoore]

I have heard/read that an onyx cannot reproduce itself in a normal pairing - that each offspring would get one trait or the other (unless it is paired with something that has het red or black pastel)...but I can't say anything other than that.
The four on the left don't really look like black pastel YBs to me...but I'm hardly an authority.. I would be more likely to call them het red YBs. The one in the upper right corner looks like a black pastel YB, and the lower right corner a black pewter YB.
Did you ask Tom Barnhart his opinion??



Edit - the more I look at the one in the lower right, the less conviction I have on the black pewter YB; but I won't discard the idea based on that picture alone. Do you have other pics of it?

 

[Ballfiend]

I agree with Harold on the top right being a BPYB. Here is a pic of my BPYB. Hope this may help a little

 

[hhmoore]

I was just coming back to do the same thing...
Here is a baby pic of my black pastel YB

And here is a black pewter I produced this year...not quite what you are showing, but YB might disrupt the color/pattern enough to do that if you got a light enough baby.

 

[madusa]

This is pre shed of one of the 4 on the left in the original pic & the one we think is the Onyx Y.B. The clutch is shedding out as i type...Later today I will repost a group photo post shed.

 

[madusa]

Here is a preshed pic of what we think is the Pastel Onyx Y.B.

 

[radera5]

I have been following another thread about this exact question. (Whether Onyx or Gargoyle are allelic.)

Tom Barnhart actually just chimed in and said this...

"The only clutch i was able to produce from my onyx YB is hatching now. It was an onyx YB x red axanthic breeding. Out of 7 eggs all are either a red axanthic or onyx combo which supports the theory that onyx, like gargoyles are allelic. No single black pastel, no het reds and no normals.


Not a lot of info having only 7 eggs but definitely on par with what others are seeing.

Tom "

I'm still not totally convinced one way or the other but I do find myself leaning toward believing they are allelic. It seems that I've seen so many clutches that support the claim while I believe this is the first thread to show otherwise.

Either way it's a good looking clutch. I'd agree with Harald for the most part. I don't think the top left are BPYB's. I think the top right is but I guess it could have HR in there too.

Good luck, I'll be following this thread for sure.

 

[madusa]

I appreciate all the input...In talking to Tom, he said himself that he heard the same thing but was not 100% sure concerning the allelic...Like I mentioned earlier these kids are shedding today...when they are all done, I'll post another group pic...Corey Woods & Colin Weaver took a look at the group pic & they both agree w/o original thoughts...

The beat goes on...He said, she said, they said...

 

[HurQleys Herps]

This is pre shed of one of the 4 on the left in the original pic & the one we think is the Onyx Y.B. The clutch is shedding out as i type...Later today I will repost a group photo post shed.

I would say this animal is consists of the HRA, Black pastel, and YB. That tail is a bit of a give away.

 

[Diego Velarde]

If gargoyles are allelic then onyx should be as well? since cinny and BP are.
Thats a hell of a clutch and an awesome problem to have.

I see four het red YB, a pastel het red YB, a BP YB and a pewter Yb.
I believe the last two have granite as well. I always thought Tom's BP line had granite in them. He's stuff is top notch.
Best of luck finding out what they really are. Should be fun.

 

[madusa]

Post shed of what we believe to be the Onyx YB

Okay got some of the pics I promised...Here is side & top shots of what we think is the Onyx YB...Next post will be of two of the 4 that we believe are Black Pastel or Het Red YB's...Not sure.

 

[madusa]

Black Pastel or Het Red YB's?

Here are a few pics of the 4 on the left of the original clutch pic...These are post shed...Do you think they are BPYB's or HRYB's?

 

[madusa]

Pastel Het Red YB

Here are a couple pics of what we think is the Paste Het Red YB.

 

[madusa]

Pewter Onyx YB or Pewter YB...?

Last but not least, the post shed pics of what do you think he is??? Pewter Onyx YB or Pewter YB?

 

[Rock Star Reptile]

So here is a pic of our pewterbelly.. to compair. and second pic of an onyx.

 

[madusa]

Onyx Mom

Nice pics...I just took one of the mom to the clutch in question...Her baby pics can be viewed on the Morph List under Onyx...Love the Pewter Belly ...To me it's not quite the same as our questionable Pewter.