Options for feeding large number of Cresteds.

[Ramiro]

I have a few carefully selected crested geckos that I spare no expense to when it comes to feeding, mostly Crested Gecko MRP and Dubia nymphs. Because I only have a few I just buy the gecko Diet MRP at some big chain pet store but it is relatively expensive there. I was wondering what the largest amount of the MRP you can get on line was. The most I found was 8 lbs for $99.

Anyone have any estimates on how much it would cost to feed a baby for a year the recommended amounts of MRP? Anyone experiment with their own diets?

 

[radera5]

Okay so when we sell a gecko to a newbie, we tend to tell them it SHOULD cost from $10-$20 a gecko. This obviously depends on size, portion sizes, and if you buy in bulk.

The more you buy, the cheaper it is per ounce. If you are going to be getting a "few" geckos, an 8lb bag would keep you stocked for quite a while. If you feed the correct portion size for each gecko, wasting as little as possible, I would say $10 a year for a baby.

Good luck, this was more of a ball park range for ya. I am sure someone else might have it down better than myself.

Good luck, and happy herping!
--Amanda

 

[defcon222]

Since you also have roaches, this is what I do:

If there is any extra aftera day or two, put the leftovers in with the roaches. The roahces will devour it and you get both a clean dish and no wated food.

I have about 90 geckos now and the 4lb bag last me about a year or so, just to give you an idea.

 

[Ramiro]

So 4 lbs of gecko MRP lasts you about a year for 90 geckos? That's pretty good. To be honest I thought having to purchase the crested gecko MRP would make it cost prohibitive to raise large numbers of these (I'm currently thinking of acquiring several dozen colorful babies).

I do find that I waste quite a bit f it, I prepare a small ceramic bowl of it for them but after two days there's usually still some left. Lately though I've been adding less and less water to the mix and they're still eating it. Hopefully soon they will take it totally dry, then I wouldn't need to toss any old food out.

 

[FosterHerpetological]

Yeah Garrick DeMeyer offers his CGD completely dry, and he says that they eat it without hesitation.

When I first got Cresteds I was doing the same thing, offering too much and I ended up wasting a lot of it. Then I emailed Garrick(Thats who I got the pair from), and he said I should try offering it totally dry. So thats all I do now. And mine love it.

 

[Ramiro]

Oh that's good to know...

I remember buying my first cresteds 10 years ago from Garrick. He was the second person I ever mail ordered reptiles from, the first being Ron Tremper.

 

[lauraleellbp]

I personally would not feed dry. Primarily b/c humidity is such a key factor with them, and secondly b/c I am not sure that the mix will digest properly without being first mixed with water? That may be a good question to pose to Repashy, himself...

I've personally just moved to smaller and smaller containers over time. I've actually just bought a bunch of 1/4" furniture caps (the plastic tips you put on the ends of iron furniture to keep it from scratching floors) that I'm going to superglue to some plastic bases for support. They're somewhat deep so the CGD doesn't dry out as quickly as it does in wider bottlecaps. So far these are working really well for all my hatchlings and juvies.

 

[Ramiro]

I have my crested on automatic foggers I use for my darts as well so no need to mist much, plus there's a water dish right next to the food so they can get a drink if need be. Not sure how it would cause digestibility issued if there's water available to them.

 

[FosterHerpetological]

I personally would not feed dry. Primarily b/c humidity is such a key factor with them, and secondly b/c I am not sure that the mix will digest properly without being first mixed with water? That may be a good question to pose to Repashy, himself...

I've personally just moved to smaller and smaller containers over time. I've actually just bought a bunch of 1/4" furniture caps (the plastic tips you put on the ends of iron furniture to keep it from scratching floors) that I'm going to superglue to some plastic bases for support. They're somewhat deep so the CGD doesn't dry out as quickly as it does in wider bottlecaps. So far these are working really well for all my hatchlings and juvies.

If there is a water dish available at all times then they seem to do okay with digesting the dry CGD.

I read on Pangea that Allen said that there was a reason he put instructions on the labels lol, which I understand. My thing is, you can do one of two things, go ahead and mix the CGD with water, or leave the CGD dry and leave a water dish. I've observed most of the time, when they eat the dry CGD almost right after being done they go get water. So essentially that would be the same as mixing it up IMO. I mean, both the CGD and the water is in their stomachs, so they should be able to digest it.

 

[lauraleellbp]

I read on Pangea that Allen said that there was a reason he put instructions on the labels lol, which I understand.

I remember that thread. I remember thinking to myself, "that doesn't really answer the question.." lol I do know that there are some vitamins and minerals that do need to be dissolved in water to be digestable, though. Whether drinking some water after eating dry CGD would be enough to accomplish this or not, IDK?

I guess I don't understand how not mixing it with water accomplishes anything good or productive.

If the goal is to save CGD, then you'd actually want to mix it with MORE water, not less, as the geckos will then actually eat less CGD before their stomachs are full (the water would take up more room in their stomachs).

I have a few heavy eaters who if they ate dry CGD, I'd worry about how it might swell in their stomachs after drinking water after the fact?

It only takes me a few minutes a week (I mix a week's worth at a time) to mix mine in the little squeeze bottles I use, and then I keep that in the fridge. One quick squirt takes a fraction of a second to fill a food dish, so feeding dry wouldn't be a time-saver, either...

I guess I just see more potential risks than benefits, personally.

 

[radera5]

IMO it would be like eating a little bit of kool aid off of a spoon instead of mixing it up with water. It dilutes it, makes it last longer, and I would assume helps the taste a bit. If the gecko is eating it dry, drinking enough, seems to like it and is thriving I don't see it being a big deal, I myself would not do it that way though.

 

[radera5]

Okay sorry about this but I read my last comment and it was CONFUSING! LOL
I was saying eating kool aid off a sppon would be GROSS first off.
Then I was explaining what the water obviously does
I also totally agree with Laura here.

 

[312Herps]

although not practical, it would be funny to see a person who drinks powder-based protien shakes powder first then water later long term effects might not prove to be the greatest with dry CGD.You could just make icecube trays of cgd then pop one into each food tray every other day they will thaw and geckos enjoy them you could even add some yogurt once in a while as a treat.Good luck

 

[Ramiro]

I remember that thread. I remember thinking to myself, "that doesn't really answer the question.." lol I do know that there are some vitamins and minerals that do need to be dissolved in water to be digestable, though. Whether drinking some water after eating dry CGD would be enough to accomplish this or not, IDK?

I guess I don't understand how not mixing it with water accomplishes anything good or productive.

If the goal is to save CGD, then you'd actually want to mix it with MORE water, not less, as the geckos will then actually eat less CGD before their stomachs are full (the water would take up more room in their stomachs).

I have a few heavy eaters who if they ate dry CGD, I'd worry about how it might swell in their stomachs after drinking water after the fact?

It only takes me a few minutes a week (I mix a week's worth at a time) to mix mine in the little squeeze bottles I use, and then I keep that in the fridge. One quick squirt takes a fraction of a second to fill a food dish, so feeding dry wouldn't be a time-saver, either...

I guess I just see more potential risks than benefits, personally.

Giving it to them dry accomplishes two things for me, it allows me to save and use less cgd because it doesn't go bad ever when it remains dry. All I do is top it off now and occasionally rinse the bowl. The second thing it accomplishes is it saves me time, I don't need to feed my geckos every day now. I just give them dry cgd and check on them every other day to make sure everyone is OK and they haven't pooped in their food or water.

I think diluting the cgd with lots of water is actually a bad idea seeing how they would be filling up with mostly water when they fed.

 

[Ramiro]

Who here knows exactly how crested geckos percieve taste? Maybe it tastes even better dry. Anthropomorphizing a tad if you ask me.

 

[lauraleellbp]

Would you be willing to keep us posted on how this works out for you over the long term?

I'd be really curious if it would affect growth rates at all one way or the other.

 

[Ramiro]

That's a great idea. When I get some baby cresteds of the same age ill raise some on dry and some on wet per instructions on the label.

 

[Ramiro]

UPDATE:

I did raise some babies on dry crested gecko diet with no apparent ill-effects after an initial month of feeding wet crested gecko diet.

I did not, however, hold onto them much longer past maturity and moved them on to other keepers.

Now I'm wishing I should have because over the last couple of years I've been doing more research on nutrition.

About a year ago I adopted a cat. This being my first "pet", I did as much research on nutrition as I possibly could after noticing that many of the older cats at the shelter had chronic or acute health issues due to diet/lifestyle.

Of particular interest to me and possibly other cat owners on this site was something I read in the Nutrition Research Council's "Nutrient Requirements of Dogs and Cats" (the book with which AAFCO (US) and FEDIAF (EU) base their complete and balanced diet recommendations).

The book stated that cats, having evolved as desert animals and consuming food with a high water content, have a low thirst drive.

It goes on to say that cats (and dogs) fed meat that was 67 - 73% moisture were able to maintain a good water balance without additional water, and those cats fed meat desiccated to 61% moisture were not able to maintain good water balance (dehydration), probably due to the amount of water needed to excrete urea.

Cats are slower than dogs to initiate drinking or to drink enough for complete rehydration than are dogs. This leads to chronic dehydration for cats on all dry or mostly dry diets which leads to urolith formation (stones) in the urinary tract. Dry diets typically contain only 10% moisture while canned foods typically contain 70-80% moisture.

Dry foods also tend to cause obesity in my opinion due to the cat consuming more calories than the equivalent weight in canned food and the higher carbohydrate content of dry foods over canned food.

Once I brought my kitten home I immediately weaned him off the dry food which he really liked from the shelter. He turned his nose up at it for a over a day but eventually caved. Now I only feed canned cat food with some occasional raw ground rabbit. I do offer him water on occasion but have never witnessed him drink.


What does all of this have to do with crested geckos?

Not much really, crested geckos are not cats and crested geckos do not come from deserts. Yet, I still feel compelled to follow some of the nutritional advice I'm applying to my cat's diet to my crested geckos' as well seeing how neither evolved to eat foods containing 10% moisture.

I do know that most reptiles reabsorb water in the colon from liquid urine produced by the kidneys which decreases the need for water.

However, it is also true that reptile kidneys need a lot of water to excrete uric acid since they are unable to produce liquid urine more concentrated than their bodily fluids due to the lack of the Loop of Henle which is present in birds and mammals and is a structure in the kidney that allows the production of concentrated liquid urine via electrolyte pumps.

To combat the large volume of water needed by the kidneys, reptiles reabsorb water in the colon (most of them).

So perhaps it is even more imperative that out reptiles be properly hydrated than our mammals.

Does anyone know if cresteds have a low thirst-drive?

I think until I find that out I will be reincorporating water into my crested gecko diet to closer mimic the moisture content of their natural diet. The peace of mind in knowing that they are getting more water will help offset the additional cost of feed, which isn't too bad anyhow as I now have a good feel for how much wet crested gecko diet they will eat in a given time.

If I'm able to determine the thirst drive of any reptiles I'd be happy to share the results with you all.

 

[odduc748]

IMO, I do think that geckos do have a good thirst drive. I always notice all of my gecko species lapping water droplets from the glass and hanging plants in their enclosures.

 

[Ramiro]

Seeing geckos drink water droplets isn't really enough to convince me that they have a good or adequate thirst drive. One would need to limit the water content of their feed and probably limit the humidity in their enclosures in order to determine if their thirst drive is adequate.

I see cats drinking from bowls regularly, and yet there is evidence they have a low thirst drive. They don't drink enough water when fed dry food and they remain in a constant state of dehydration to some degree.