ours jaws

[BallPythonGal21]

SavannahisCRAZY
Omg You might as well just shove a ruber hose up its ass and stuff it full of butter...... You could feed a small african village with what you feed your savannah.

LOL

 

[VxXDJXxV]

thanks for the advice azoun i definitely wasn't making the water high enough. The black throat is almost a year old and about 4ft. the sav what the guy told me was about 2 1/2 years old and about 2 1/2 ft. my black throat is still very active and really isn't held black by what gut she has and i feed her about 2 or 3 med rats a week. the sav on the other hand since i got her about 2 months ago i have had him eating 1 to 2 small rats a week. That fat ass just lays around and doesn't do anything unless he sees something small and furry. I knew when i bought that fatty he was going to be a project but i thought i was going to see more improvement faster.

 

[azoun]

Sounds like your feeding isnt the problem especialy if they are that size, All you have to do is the Forced swiming, Just make sure they have a ledge they can swim to or else it be torture. They might try to float 2 lol, my second sav, was a lil chubby when i got him, and when id put him in the deep end, hed puff up, and float lol, so u just keep nuging him, eventually hell swim.

 

[daniel1983]

Forced swimming?

No monitor needs forced swimming...actually, it is cruel as hell...where are you getting this garbage from?

Sad thing about monitors is....most of the people keeping them don't know squat about them...

Provide the Sav with a properly sized enclosure and a deep substrate to dig in, and it will get all the physical activity it needs....

Forced swimming.....what a horrible thing to do to an animal.....

All of you need to learn how to care for your animals correctly before you try to give out advice.

 

[constrictorcrazi74]

I think forced swimming would just stress the sav out idk just my opinion

 

[azoun]

People need to pay attention, Force swiming is only done when the animal is obeese, its not harmfull and helps burn fat, if your monitor isnt obese than theirs no point. Dont take is out of context, even if the animal dosnt enjoy it
at first,its only for neccesary wight loss. + They are verry well built for swiming, and mine now enjoy it, like i said one didnt at first because he was fat and just floated But now he himself will plop himselfinto the tub for some laps. I fill the tub, deep with a ledge (concreete block) and a ramp up to the tub and let them run around the bathroom while i sit and watch, and they themselves run up the ramp and jump into tub, especialy if the water is warm, They also like to go under the tub fauset when you add a lil water.
As far as deep substrate and diging, the only time they dig is for thermoregulation, they dont just dig to stay active.

 

[azoun]

Horrible is throwing an animal that cant, or dosnt like water, or swiming, like throwing a cat into a pool thats cruel, introducing savs to tubs first with depth from .5 inch to 3 inches, and gradually making a deep water pool for them that they THEMSELVES with help from a double ramp going into and out of the tub, now CHOSE to run into the water and swim, and run out, and run back in and swim some more....how is that crual? Because i thought a bit, introduced my 2 savs to WATER (something i know they deal with in the wild)and now they themselves choose. I never said throw them in the pool and forget them lol. The fatty i had did seem to HATE it the first time, now he himself will go. Maybe your monitors are missing out! What you percieve as crual, both my monitors enjoy....so ill personally stick to my monitors behaviors rather than opinions. But thank you for your concern, its nice to see people care about animals. I have 11 reptiles that i care for and absolutley adore, i just shared some advise on how to deal with FAT ones.. Take it or leave it But stating its crual... tahts a lil harsh, especialy since we actually now almoust nothing on sav's the only study ever done with some merit was done YEARS AGO 70s i think, thats why there is so many different OPINIONS. A couple of months ago there was a article on how rodant diets are EVIL AND BAD for savs.......yet I know tons of people and breeders feed all exclusive rodant diets. Who's wrong??? NO ONE! Both insect only diet works, and a well MAINTAINED rodant diet(since rats are more nutricious than insects)works fine as well. Try it yourself provide them with a swiming pool and ramps to climb in and out, see what happens. Maybe even you wont think its crual then.

 

[daniel1983]

Maybe your monitors are missing out!

Not at all. My monitors don't need to be forced to swim.....they do great just the way that they are kept now

Monitor do not need to be soaked if the proper conditions are provided to them. A monitor provided an enviroment in which it can 'have a life' does not need to be soaked in order to 'loose weight' or 'stay in shape'. Forced swimming is a cover-up for improper husbandry....it benefits the keeper because less effort is needed than fixing the husbandry itself. Why not provide the sav with proper condition so it does not have to be forced to swim? Is that too much to ask?

What you percieve as crual, both my monitors enjoy....so ill personally stick to my monitors behaviors rather than opinions.

How do you know they enjoy it?

You say they enjoy warmer baths.....are they going to the water to exercise and play?....or are they going to the water to get heat when placed in a cool bathroom? Next time you go to force them to swim, plug in a heat lamp and put in the room nearby.......now see if they would rather swim or warm up. Great way to test things....keeps you thinking....monitor lizards are a "thinking man's reptile" afterall...

yet I know tons of people and breeders feed all exclusive rodant diets.

What kind of results do they/you have? How long do their/your Savs live? How many clutches of eggs are being produced? What variety of behaviors are being observed?

If you don't have results, anything said means nothing toward the captive husbandry of the animal. I could keep a sav alive in a 10 gallon aquarium fed only cat food, but that wouldn't make it right or good advice would it?

Breeders of Savs? Who?

Jarrett Coiro had good success breeding savanahhs (something you hear about very little) and recently had an article published in the new Biawak journal recently..

Great read if you like hearing about success with savs...
http://www.nabble.com/file/p12268628/V_exanthematicus.pdf

Great example of captive care of exanthematicus since he has RESULTS

 

[qiksilver5]

I'm going to have to agree with daniel since he actually is making sense here.

If kept properly there should be need to 'swim' your monitor, with proper husbandry they should not be allowed to become obese, and once more (third time's a charm) with proper husbandry they shouldn't be missing out on any NATURAL behaviors, which most definitely does not include forced swimming, as that would be unnatural.

 

[BallPythonGal21]

I think people said it, Rafal. There is no need to force swim your sav (or any animal) and you have no idea of how to take care of your animal(s).

 

[azoun]

I had a 600 page essay, thean deleted it, and ill leave you all with this..

Swiming (despite everyones personal opinions) is a great way for a ALREADY FAT SAVANNAH, no where did i say i overfed and had to then do........ If you buy a sav/adopt/win and its fat,SWIMING and a diet are great for it and verry beneficial. Michael Balsai, is who i got all my savannah info on, look the name up. (ohh and my bathroom is the savs play pen, me and my girl have our master bathroom, and than the smaller one off the reptile room, witch we turned into their play pen with carpeting, and 2 bascspots, along with the 2 ramps (in out of tub) So they dont use the water as a heat source. And it ignorant for you to say HOW do i know, when the same goes for you. Have you provided a warm bath/with a heat lamp and basc spot? It seems the only way to give advice without getting attacked is to LIteraly List every thing you own,is near, far has everbeen near your pet. So Just for the hell of it.

BAthrrom :temp is 80- 85
Bathroom floor is NOT TILE Medium thick carpet
There are 2 basc spots (one each per monitor) Basc tem is between 110-115
bathtub has a ramp leading in, and one leading out.
Ramp leading in to tub ends with a ledge angled into water so they can getin/out verry easily
The bathroom door is never closed FULLY allowing them to come out (if im on the REPcouch and they are roaming) So if they ever need a cool down its redilly available.
And yet they still CHOOSE to BATHE and SWIM, thats why i said they enjoy it. They have a 9'/6'/4' habbitat, with 1.5' Soil/pink granite mixture/holds moisture and is highlly compactable, for great burrows/ They are fed rodents as primary diet/ They are provided with gut loaded Supperworms (which i breed myself) Crickets/(store bought) and Lobster roaches(which I also breed and gut load) I give them insects daylie, they love to chase and provides ample excersize, making the swiming UNNECESSARY (opposed to when i first got the fatty) yet x-fatty still loves the water!!!!!!! Now if you still dont have an opend mind to the posibillity that they like it, then im at a loss, iv already wasted 2 much time on this, I just get so G^D D(*M angry when people CRITISIZE on a species that has yet to be studied..... The only info you have listed is all of the 1970-Study witch was primarilly done on the White throat Not even on savs. That reaserch was formed when the sav and White throat were under the same Sci-Familly. Look how far we have come since than.....we havent..its still all guess work and opinions, I like my sources so thats my advice.

 

[azoun]

OHH Forgot this..

Mellisa Kaplin's Herp care quote

Water
Despite some accounts, savannahs do enjoy soaking. Provide them with a water bowl or tub big enough for them to submerge themselves (they can stay under water for extended periods of time). They will drink their water, and may defecate in it, so the bowl must be checked at least once a day to keep it clean and filled. Savannahs are also handy at tipping over water tubs, so make sure to use sturdy, bottom-heavy crocks or tubs.

Thats how i came to the conclussion taht they like it Im sorry for such GIGANTIC posts, and the run on sentances, im a horible writer/ decent speaker I had to explain myself best i could hope it worked, especially because of coments like

"Not at all. My monitors don't need to be forced to swim.....they do great just the way that they are kept now" My monitors CHOSE, one was forced when i first got him because he was fat (for the 7th time) Now he choses

and
How do you know they enjoy it?

My sources and monitors showed me

Seems like your just looking for ways to Make arguments instead of either taking/or ignoring simple advice! I hope not to many people take you seriously, closed minded peole are not who should be listend 2, but that seems to be a big issue in the states altoogether, You could have simply asked in the thread or in a pm/ Hey Azoun Did you provide them with heat/ because they might be going into the water for temp gains, But you didnt You just take up the charge..... Or is everyone who thinks monitors enjoy water/swiming are idiots wrong and cluless? because either im misunderstanding you, or thats exactly what you did.

And since you either didnt read my Word jumble or missunderstood it/ ONLY obeese monitors should be (in my opinion) given swiming regiments, I dont FORCE anything to swim, Big difference in making me seem like i drop savannahs into deep water, or what i said "encurage with deep/to low water swiming Incase of obesity"

 

[daniel1983]

....about a month ago, you didn't seem to know much about monitors and were keeping them in aquariums. ..now you spew advice out concerning animals that you have kept for 2 months...that pisses me off...YOU DO NOT NEED TO BE GIVING ADVICE.

Get some actual experience with the animals before you spit out information like it is the way things should be done. People like you are why there is no progress being made in the keeping of these animals.

You have NO RESULTS......just two baby animals......yet you act as if you are some sort of expert....

what a joke....

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=537610

Hey about a month ago i picked up a 8 inch Savannah monitor, i revisited the pet store and they still had My monitors original cage mate at a special bargain, 67$ for tank set up light and monitor, anyway i bought the second.
I'm about to construct a custom enclosure, and i was wondering if i can house the 2 sav's together, or do i have to sex them first and can only have Female male pair? Or since at one point there were 3 in a pet store tank its safe to assume its a communal species... I haven't heard anything about housing multiple Savannah's together but have seen pictures of groups up 2 6 in a tank. The last thing i want to do is introduce my Now 8 1/2 inch baby, to the new larger 11 inch sav and have them fight. If they are Male/Male can they still getalong? Or am i better of not introducing them at all. ??? Even if i cant house them together is it OK to have the 2 meet outside their individual homes or will that cause them to fight if same sex?
Please any info would be greatly appreciated.

 

[azoun]

I think people said it, Rafal. There is no need to force swim your sav (or any animal) and you have no idea of how to take care of your animal(s).

Again another idiot who dosnt know how to read..... 9th time ready tart? Ill make it into a story so you catch on.....

You have 1 savana a year later someone hands over custody to you of a FAT OBEESE SAV you could put it into your perfect pen and guess what, it will be a long time and Possible health problems before he naturally losses all the EXCES weight. SO YOU LET IT SWIM, because even if it hates it you can make a drastic health change in 4 months and much sooner Rather than let it wither and die and have unecesary health risks.

 

[daniel1983]

Monitors are not care sheet animals.....like I said before, they are a 'thinking man's reptile'....Kaplin may know some reptiles......but that caresheet is just reguritated information.....She is just spitting out info on an animal.....similarly to you...

If you offer your freeroam animals use the tub as a watersource....fine with me.....every animal needs a water source........that is not FORCEING THEM TO DO ANYTHING...

....but YOUR RECOMMENDATION that someone should FORCE an animal swim as a form of exercise is 100% garbage advice.........

 

[azoun]

EXACTLY why i started posting... Because i seeked help here and NO ONE SEEMS TO KNOW A THING, Iv spent My 2 months reading ACTUAL BENEFICIAL FACTS. And proven methods, you have people using NEWSPAPER as beding/ people feeding 3 chunks of meat a day, and THESE ARE THE EXPERTS LOL Your a loon, My advice came from my sources i listed, if im wrong so must they be

 

[daniel1983]

ha ha....you're pretty good at name calling.....and you take things too personally to get so irritated over a simple conversation....

My advice came from my sources i listed, if im wrong so must they be

....

EXACTLY

Have a good one....I wish you success with your monitors. I hope they are one of the few that can live a long life unlike most of the savs that do not make it past 2 years.

 

[VxXDJXxV]

This whole thing was because i asked the opinion of people about my VERY OBESE sav. If you didn't see it then here is the pic again:

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd216/VxXDJXxV/fatty001.jpg
He is 2.5 ft and about 2 years old (from what i was told)

I bought him this way so the care that was given to the animal was nothing of my doing. i just wanted to know a way help him lose weight because the diet was not working.

The advice i got from azoun did make sense, and in the contents that i thought it was in was it should only be used in cases when and animal is very obese. In my opinion the definition of and obese animal is one that is so fat it effects its every day life. in this instance my savs drags its belly on the floor when it walks and thats if it even wants to move at all.

The other pic i posted was of my 1 year old black throat: (here it is again)

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd216/VxXDJXxV/Blackthroat4.jpg
(she is 4ft)

Who i think is "chunky" not obese at least in the definition i gave above.
She walks all around the room raises up off the ground and moves quite fast. In her case I'm just going to cut back a little on her food.

If any else has an opinion or a way that i can help my sav to get in to better shape that would be great. its much more constructive if people try to help by suggesting something instead of just criticising what other people say.

 

[Junkyard]

OHH Forgot this..

Mellisa Kaplin's Herp care quote

Water
Despite some accounts, savannahs do enjoy soaking. Provide them with a water bowl or tub big enough for them to submerge themselves (they can stay under water for extended periods of time). They will drink their water, and may defecate in it, so the bowl must be checked at least once a day to keep it clean and filled. Savannahs are also handy at tipping over water tubs, so make sure to use sturdy, bottom-heavy crocks or tubs.

"Not at all. My monitors don't need to be forced to swim.....they do great just the way that they are kept now" My monitors CHOSE, one was forced when i first got him because he was fat (for the 7th time) Now he choses

No where in this quote of Kaplan's does she state that they love to swim. It says they enjoy soaking, there is a big difference between forced swimming and soaking. Each animal has its own unique personality, some like to swim and others hate it. I have owned multiple iguanas, many loved the water, but my current girl hates it with a passion. You may own monitors, but do not fight with others here over your expertise, you are only wasting your time.

If any else has an opinion or a way that i can help my sav to get in to better shape that would be great. its much more constructive if people try to help by suggesting something instead of just criticising what other people say.

Swimming is not the only way for a savannah to get exercise. Taking them out and letting them roam the lawn or your living room works well. Some enjoy this time to be out of their cage and in a large area they can walk around, they do explore. Cutting down on their diet is good too, cut their meal size in half or the amount of times you feed them in a week. It will take a while for them to lose weight, they are cold blooded reptiles, so their metabolism is slow. In time you will see a difference. Good luck.