Bad Guy Outbackreptiles.com

[BucksReptiles]

really?? you, would be surprised...

 

[JG1153]

Interesting, Sound almost exactly like what happened in this situation as well ?

You know I was thinking the exact same thing.

 

[KelliH]

Kelly, it is tough for many breeders who produce leopard geckos to admit all of the defects they produce from leopards with all the varieties of morphs. There are many people like you, and myself who feel bad for these animals. This is actually the reason I stopped breeding leopards. They are produced at such a high volume for profit, and now only worth about $10-$20 for any morph under the sun. Outback Reptiles has a Volunteer who is a non-profit 501-C3 who does her best to provide geckos like the ones you saw posted, to be placed in caring, loving homes. The geckos you see, were mistakenly packaged as they were being prepared to be sent to the White Plains Show in NY, as free geckos.

You are wrong about all leopard geckos being worth $10-$20 first of all. That is just an out and out untruth. Secondly, there is a BIG difference between a "defect" as you mentioned above, and just out and out starvation, neglect, lack of proper supplements and yeah I'll say it - cruelty. Those geckos pictured had defects that were caused by the people that were (not) caring for them and have nothing to do with any congenital defects or deformities. There is no similarity between the two, is there.

 

[xanaxez]

Dandy, Kelly, and for all.... Josh has taken care of the issue with Debbie. There is no need to keep carrying on.

The geckos Josh shipped out were actually picked up the night before he shipped them out.
Kelly, it is tough for many breeders who produce leopard geckos to admit all of the defects they produce from leopards with all the varieties of morphs. There are many people like you, and myself who feel bad for these animals. This is actually the reason I stopped breeding leopards. They are produced at such a high volume for profit, and now only worth about $10-$20 for any morph under the sun. Outback Reptiles has a Volunteer who is a non-profit 501-C3 who does her best to provide geckos like the ones you saw posted, to be placed in caring, loving homes. The geckos you see, were mistakenly packaged as they were being prepared to be sent to the White Plains Show in NY, as free geckos.

Debbie, who is the actual purchaser/owner of the geckos was immediately contacted and being taken care of. There is no need for rambling, so save your fingers from carpal tunnel and arthritis. Enjoy your week.

So no quaruntine of any sort? just pick them up and ship them out?? customer being taken care of or not this crap shouldnt have happeneded to begin with. josh has alot of history doing this same bs. i see outback as nothing more than J&J reptiles all over again.

 

[KelliH]

And Ryan, you really should let all of us here know who it is that is allowing their animals to go without food and water, without calcium supplements, without basic husbandry requirements. If you knew of a "breeder" that was allowing their dogs or cats to wither away to skin and bones by not giving the animals food and water would you not be outraged? Would you think this practice is perfectly fine as long as the dog or cat "breeder" dumps off the starving dogs and cats on someone else? As I type this I have to tell you that I have faith in you that you do not think this is ok. Just because (in your mind) these animals are only worth $10 or $20 does not mean it is ok to abuse them in this manner, does it? You must know that is wrong and that whoever is abusing these animals needs to be accountable for the abuse, and we as a community need to know which "big breeder" it is.

 

[rjarosek]

You are wrong about all leopard geckos being worth $10-$20 first of all. That is just an out and out untruth. Secondly, there is a BIG difference between a "defect" as you mentioned above, and just out and out starvation, neglect, lack of proper supplements and yeah I'll say it - cruelty. Those geckos pictured had defects that were caused by the people that were (not) caring for them and have nothing to do with any congenital defects or deformities. There is no similarity between the two, is there.

Amen! Thank you for that Kelli. Outback can continue to make excuses for themselves and the breeder they deal with that will not correct the issue. Abuse is Abuse, I did not see any defects in the pictures posted.

The Breeder felt bad so he wouldn't freeze the animals he decided were not worth caring for? Total Crap

 

[rjarosek]

And Ryan, you really should let all of us here know who it is that is allowing their animals to go without food and water, without calcium supplements, without basic husbandry requirements. If you knew of a "breeder" that was allowing their dogs or cats to wither away to skin and bones by not giving the animals food and water would you not be outraged? Would you think this practice is perfectly fine as long as the dog or cat "breeder" dumps off the starving dogs and cats on someone else? As I type this I have to tell you that I have faith in you that you do not think this is ok. Just because (in your mind) these animals are only worth $10 or $20 does not mean it is ok to abuse them in this manner, does it? You must know that is wrong and that whoever is abusing these animals needs to be accountable for the abuse, and we as a community need to know which "big breeder" it is.

I would also like to know who the breeder is. It is really disgusting when any animal gets the "is only a insert animal here" Putting a lesser value on anything to justify sick behavior is appalling.

 

[Tony C]

There is absolutely no excuse for sending those geckos out, nobody in their right mind is going to mistake them for healthy animals when they are packing an order. Either you guys REALLY don't know what you're doing, and have no business dealing in live animals, or you tried to pull a fast one and got caught. The more you try to sweep it under the rug and sidestep it by claiming that the OP was not involved in the deal the worse you look. You sent her the geckos, so she is most definitely involved, and trying to bully a teenage girl into staying quiet about this is not the way to save your reputation.

 

[Rapture]

It sure seems like Josh is either dishonest or very unobservant and ignorant, or just plain blind to send out geckos like that, no matter why Outback had them in that condition, and that Outback is accepting freebies along with their trades so they can "rehab" the "salvageable" geckos and sell them, and give away the ones that are too far gone by even their standards.

This is what happens when you buy from so many flippers... rotating inventory ASAP to make quick money, can't even take a minute to look at the animals that are being packed in a box, possibly can't even recognize when an animal has a serious, long term health problem.

As for the buyer, I truly hope they have learned their lesson and will pay the extra buck for high quality animals direct from the breeder, to found their breeding stock!

 

[robin d.]

This thread was posted by someone who has no involvement with the deal between us and the buyer. I sold the gecko's to Debbie, not her niece.

We took a large group of leo's in on trade and some of them were not in the best condition. Our leopard gecko guy is putting weight on them with xtra calcium to get them back on track before we sold them. When I was packing her order I packed up a group of babies by mistake that were the ones we were holding back to work with to get them back on track. I was a mistake on my part and I take full responsibility for the mix up with the wrong babies getting sent. I got an email from Debbie that one didn't look to good and told her that I would credit her ( thats where the $15 came from).
Aas for the Niece, she had no involvement in the deal so when she emailed that there is a problem I had no idea who she was and figured she had the wrong company. When I saw this thread and saw the comment about $15 credit I put two and two together and called Debbie to get everything situated.

Hope this clears everything up.

piss poor excuse

 

[robin d.]

What should happen then? Should the animal be euthanized when a few weeks of heavy feeding are all it needs to bounce back and become a good pet for somebody? I know some people are just in it for the money but I try to give every animal a chance. Its much more rewarding when you care about the animals.

Again, its unfortunate that a couple animals went out that weren't supposed to. Since the OP's problem has been resolved I don't see how this thread is heading anywhere constructive.

you should buy and trade from quality breeders.

 

[robin d.]

Dandy, Kelly, and for all.... Josh has taken care of the issue with Debbie. There is no need to keep carrying on.

The geckos Josh shipped out were actually picked up the night before he shipped them out.

Kelly, it is tough for many breeders who produce leopard geckos to admit all of the defects they produce from leopards with all the varieties of morphs. There are many people like you, and myself who feel bad for these animals. This is actually the reason I stopped breeding leopards. They are produced at such a high volume for profit, and now only worth about $10-$20 for any morph under the sun. Outback Reptiles has a Volunteer who is a non-profit 501-C3 who does her best to provide geckos like the ones you saw posted, to be placed in caring, loving homes. The geckos you see, were mistakenly packaged as they were being prepared to be sent to the White Plains Show in NY, as free geckos.

Debbie, who is the actual purchaser/owner of the geckos was immediately contacted and being taken care of. There is no need for rambling, so save your fingers from carpal tunnel and arthritis. Enjoy your week.

wait who's story is true yours or josh's from outback because there are some slight inconsistencies between the two stories

 

[robin d.]

Not really about this situation but, I get tired of people posting here that have long threads on other forums and then start a thread here like we all know what's going on.

If you come to the BOI then post the information here just like you did on the other web site. We shouldn't have to follow links and read other threads to get an idea of what's going on.

Just my 2 cents

jazim did not even know about the BOI until we told her about it.

 

[JG1153]

I’m sure Outback would like this thread to go away under the pretense that the issue has been taken care of and therefore this thread is not warranted but ultimately there is a bigger issue at hand than just taking care of this particular bad transaction. The bigger issue here is that of Outback’s unscrupulous and irresponsible business practices which is made all the worst because these practices are contributing and encouraging animal neglect and abuse and for that they (Outback) absolutely and 100% deserve a bad guy thread and the disdain of everyone in this hobby.

First off, why are these sub-par animals being accepted? Perhaps you think you’re doing a good thing here but really you’re just making things worst by accepting these unhealthy animals from breeders and supporting what they’re doing by continuing to give them your business.
I understand the point of “what am I to do with these poor animals?” But ultimately if you don’t put yourself in that situation and make it your problem to begin with by accepting these animals in the first place, doing business with these breeders and letting those responsible bear the burden of dealing with these animals then maybe they would rethink what they’re doing
Think about it. Here’s a guy who’s trying to get rid of all these neglected animals but since no one will take them then eventually he runs out of room and the cost of taking care of these animals becomes too much plus he’s making no sales at which point he either stops breeding or he gets some better business and animal care practices, etc… It tends to work itself out

On the other hand you not only allow for a venue to for these people to offload these animals but you also do business with them. You are in effect knowingly contributing to their despicable practices and the problem continues thanks to you (Outback) and for what? Probably because since no reputable dealer will obtain animals from such an individual you can come along and clean house at cheaper than normal prices which nets you a nice profit. Great way to profit from animal abuse.

I can also certainly understand trying to help these animals get better and finding them homes but unless you’re planning on policing the new owners or you’re sterilizing these animals before rehoming them what’s to stop these owners from starting a breeding program with these animals? In which case you’re again just adding to the problem.

Lastly I’m sorry but this whole story regarding “oh I just overlooked the condition of these animals while packing” really insults my intelligence and that of the others on this forum. You mean to tell me you didn’t notice those geckos were mostly skin and bones? Come on! I’m not a gecko person and have never really been into them or kept them and even I can tell there is something very very wrong with these animals and yet you’re trying to tell us you didn’t notice? In my opinion those animals were knowingly sent hoping the OP wouldn’t notice just like they were knowingly accepted from whatever shady dealer to begin with.

Ultimately it comes down to this “birds of a feather flock together” so if you knowingly do business with unscrupulous people which in the case of animal cruelty automatically makes you unscrupulous then it wouldn’t be hard to imagine you would do something unscrupulous like selling those animals in that condition hoping to make a buck.

Can anyone say animal cruelty investigation? Outback is probably not going to reveal who this "big breeder" who neglected these but perhaps if the humane society shows up threatening to hold them partially responsible they might not be so tight lipped about who is mistreating these poor animals.

 

[critical bill]

Whooo....not good. I was set to order a few red iguanas from Josh this month, and follow it up with a more substantial order if my customer was happy.

Somehow I am NOT getting the feeling that they or I would be happy.

 

[Strike_Force_Reptiles]

well im just going to get 1 post in on this and then ill just read everything that comes after and not get involved any more but i have talked to Josh a few times and he seems to be a pretty nice guy BUT....

1) if you ever get an email stating we have a problem NEVER avoid or ignore that email, always follow up with ( what is the problem? are you sure you have the right email? what cant we help you with? ) i dont know what her email said but still no emails should ever be avoided or ignored.

2) i have talked to Josh a few times and even asked if i could pick up a large group of wholesale reptiles (was getting in the petstore biz but now have took another direction) and was told we can meet somewhere we are not open to the public, if i am going to make a large order of reptiles and make a business deal that could keep both in business for quite awhile i want to be able to tour where u keep everything so i know there is no problems with the reptiles i'm getting and selling. to be told i cant come to where their shop is is kinda fishy.

3) they were complaining about Jasmine making the complaint when she had nothing to do with the deal but 2 others that work for Outback got in on this when it was Josh who made the deal and the "mistake" so ant that the same as what they were complaining about? It was Jasmine's geckos so she has just as much right as her Aunt to make a complaint. her Aunt might have ordered them but she also made clear that they were for Jasmine period. so if Josh is going to tell Jasmine to stay out of this then you other guys from Outback need to stay out of it aswell

4) NO EMAILS SHOULD BE IGNORED!

thats all i have to say so yall may continue

 

[john_]

I always hesitate to post against the masses in threads like this but I’ll brave any hostile responses and throw my .02 cents in. I've recently (within the last month) purchased an Irian Jaya Carpet Python from Josh at Outback Reptiles and it was as smooth of a transaction as I had hoped for. Josh went out of his way to accommodate my schedule and the animal arrived as healthy and as pretty as promised. Communication and customer service was top notch.

Everyone hates to see animals in the condition shown in this thread and it is a shame that the customer had a bad experience but as a satisfied customer of Outback Reptiles I can honestly say that this does not reflect on all of his business practices.

Now - I imagine this is where I'm going to irritate a few people but I guess what I'm trying to say is, short of telling Josh to shut down his business, what more can be expected of him? He's admitted he made a mistake and is attempting to or has rectified the situation. Sure, these animals are obviously unhealthy but only Josh knows what was going on around him when he made the mistake. Whether the mistake is obvious to you or me doesn't mean they were obvious at the time they're made. We've all experienced chaotic times and have made mistakes haven't we? Human error is ALWAYS a factor. He admitted he made a mistake and is trying to fix the situation - I'm not sure what else the guy can do.

As a happy customer of Outback Reptiles, I would not shy away from buying from Josh again in the future.

John Graziani

 

[rjarosek]

Now - I imagine this is where I'm going to irritate a few people but I guess what I'm trying to say is, short of telling Josh to shut down his business, what more can be expected of him? He's admitted he made a mistake and is attempting to or has rectified the situation. Sure, these animals are obviously unhealthy but only Josh knows what was going on around him when he made the mistake. Whether the mistake is obvious to you or me doesn't mean they were obvious at the time they're made. We've all experienced chaotic times and have made mistakes haven't we? Human error is ALWAYS a factor. He admitted he made a mistake and is trying to fix the situation - I'm not sure what else the guy can do.

He also admitted to receiving unhealthy animals getting them healthier and selling them. Except for the ones too far gone in their opinion. Those they truck to shows and try to give them away. He has provided an outlet for a "large Breeder" to dump off the animals they are too busy to take care of.

Doesn't sound like a good guy to me

 

[Tony C]

Sure, these animals are obviously unhealthy but only Josh knows what was going on around him when he made the mistake. Whether the mistake is obvious to you or me doesn't mean they were obvious at the time they're made. We've all experienced chaotic times and have made mistakes haven't we?

I don't care how busy someone is, there is no way you could pack these animals for shipping and not realize that something is very wrong with them. No matter how much is going on, a person still has to look at the gecko, catch it, put it in a cup, and pack the cup into a box, and the MBD is so obvious it could not be missed. Bottom line is they tried to dump some very sick geckos on someone, got called on it, and are now trying to sweep it under the rug and pretend like nothing ever happened.

 

[Otter_23]

I was just curious as to what morphs were ordered.

Did Josh just so happen to accidently ship the correct morph and sex of leos out of the ones he wasn't suppose to sell?