Paid subscription plan?

[cavu]

This plan has probably already been laid out, I don't remember, my head hurts, but:

1. You can view everything all you want for free
2. $10 a year gets you the right to interact on all the forums
3. $25 or $35 whatever, gets you full membership, including free classified advertising.

This way if you just want info you can browse, find what you need and leave, all for free. If you are like me and are not in the business (only one snake right now), but have been a member of this group for some time, you won't mind the $10.00 fee. Business and serious herpers can pay for the full service.

Rich, I will always support this site, even at $35 a year, but for people like me it would be $35.00 to lurk and post maybe 4 or 5 time a year.

 

[Vince]

It seems like alot of the people who have no problem paying 35 bucks are bussiness types, with webpages and breed alot of animals. what about the every day hobbyist or just some one with a few pets.

 

[Vince]

I look at the polls here that show what people are willing to pay

well not really. Only 112 voted, how many members are registerd? thousands right.

 

[Vince]

113 votes and 16,477 members. (sorry cant edit posts)

 

[Bill_Leverton]

It seems like alot of the people who have no problem paying 35 bucks are bussiness types, with webpages and breed alot of animals. what about the every day hobbyist or just some one with a few pets.

Vince Im not,I have a small upcoming business and no web page and as it sits now I'm breeding 2 boas but I will pay the 35 or what ever the outcome is Just For That Piece Of Mind that I wont get scammed. If you had to put a price tag on a piece of mind what would it be Mine happens to be 35$

 

[Vince]

Vince Im not,I have a small upcoming business and no web page and as it sits now I'm breeding 2 boas but I will pay the 35 or what ever the outcome is Just For That Piece Of Mind that I wont get scammed. If you had to put a price tag on a piece of mind what would it be Mine happens to be 35$

Yeah I really do agree, 35 dollars isnt much. When (if ever) I make a profite in my hobby I would donate to this site, or buy a membership witch ever is the system at that time. BUT 35 bucks buys a lot of tortoise food, and thats higher up on the list of my hobby budget then internet memberships.

 

[Bill_Leverton]

Yeah I really do agree, 35 dollars isnt much. When (if ever) I make a profite in my hobby I would donate to this site, or buy a membership witch ever is the system at that time. BUT 35 bucks buys a lot of tortoise food, and thats higher up on the list of my hobby budget then internet memberships.

Lol I know Vince It cost me at least that a week to feed my boas(11 and counting) Like I said to me its worth that, to others well it up to them

 

[Tripple H Herps]

Rich- Personally I would hate to have to pay the fee. However the BOI has been an invaluable reference for me. If it was not there I would have lost out in much much more money then just the $35. So you would be able to count me in on paying you for it. However I would have to vote no on making everyone pay this fee. The reasons that I say this are listed below.

1. Less people would post there experiences on the BOI. Making the BOI less valuable.
2. Almost NO good guy posts would show up. As we all know, most people only comment when they’ve had a problem.
3. Allot of people that were just scammed would not be willing to spend and extra $35 to tell everyone about it. Once again rendering the BOI less useful.
4. Allot of newbie’s that need help on caring for an animal would have to pay to get it. This would deter multiple people and could hurt some animals.

However making this a pay site with more moderation would help to stop the insignificant posts. By both people making multiple inquiries or people starting flame wars. I think you said it best: “It’s a loose if you do it or loose if you don’t situation.” I would have to say, just do what ever you think is best.

 

[WebSlave]

How about if everyone just drop that $35 figure from their mind and substitute $10 instead? This is really the figure I have had in mind all along. The poll option for $35 was just for me to get a feel for a level of what people would tolerate as a VERY HIGH figure. To see that the pain level would be. I am actually surprised that some people felt this would be perfectly OK, but honestly, that was not the target I was shooting at.

$10 will not hurt anyone. But it will set the bar high enough to filter out most of the problems on the BOI. It will lend a bit more credibility to the people posting there, and certainly I would feel more comforted knowing that the people posting in the classifieds weren't just some fly-by-night that created an identity 10 minutes ago just to post their ad. And it will pay me enough (after PayPal fees, etc) to make it worth my time to handle the inevitable snags that will crop up.

If someone is not willing to spend $10 to post their bad experience about someone, then it really is not all that important to them, now is it? Why does someone post such a thing in the first place? What is their goal? Does that goal have a value to them? If not, then heck, they can keep it to themselves and not waste everyone's time. Maybe some of the more frivolous posts, the ones that are posted prematurely, will not be the problem it has in the past either.

As for the good guy posts, well all along I have felt that these should be the EXCEPTIONAL cases, not just a matter of someone doing what should be normal business practice. So yeah, I think if a customer gets treated in an exceptional manner, they will not mind at all spending $10 to be able to tell the world about it. No people are not going to pay $10 to be able to post that they ordered and animal and it showed up OK. That should be par for the course. But if things go wrong and you get taken care of above and beyond what you had expected, THOSE are the posts that should be placed on the BOI. In reality, if everything went exactly as it should be in all transactions, there would be nothing at all to post on the BOI. What I have wanted to see there all along, are the EXCEPTIONS to the norm, both good and bad. This is what people would be willing, I think, to pay the $10 to be able to post.

If you like, look at it as an insurance policy that you can pay for retroactively, as needed. You can still read what is going on here, but if you don't have the need nor desire to post there right now, no problem. But at least you, and the potential bad guys, know it is there when you need it. And in the same vein, maybe it would be best to cut back some of the sideline chatter anyway, so I don't really think this will be a substantial drawback. From the start, people have complained about people who had no real stake in the issues chiming in, well here you go..... Maybe this will help somewhat to prune that sort of activity back a bit.

For just $10 a year, this would help weed out the fake IDs that post there. It would help to limit the people who drop in out of nowhere and really have no other reason to post in the BOI but to get their name in print in the sig lines. It will make the fine and warning system a bite with teeth, because a person suspended will have to pay another $10 fee if they create a false logon anyway, so why not just pay the fine and be done with it? For just $10 per year from a substantial number of people, heck, I may even have enough incentive to where I would try to make things even better. I have had ideas sitting in the wings for a while, but they are ideas that would cost me not only in programming efforts ($$) to implement, but would likely be a real headache to manage, that I am just not willing to take on for free.

I believe I have always been upfront about this site and what I had in mind for it. Yeah, I had no idea the day I set it up that it would become the Frankenstein it has, but I think it is a benign Frankenstein, for the most part, unless you happen to be a bit less then honorable in your business dealings. But it does turn on it's creator every now and again, making me wish I had done something else that day. A such, I have tried to always solicit advise from the members here and listened to what was said. I have evaluated every idea presented, tried to implement what I could, and tried to explained why I could not do what was asked when it just was not feasible. Then sometimes I was able to do it anyway when things changed to make it feasible.

So why not listen to me for this? Perhaps it is time to take that one step back now in order to take the leap forward tomorrow. Yeah, I could lose some members over this, but I am hoping that it is not the cream of the crop that would be leaving. This site is still not even a shadow of what it could become in the future. So yes, those people leaving will most likely be back sooner or later anyway when they see the growth that has continued along without them. All I am asking is for the backing to enable me to do that. I just CAN'T do this myself any longer. Matter of fact, if it hadn't been for the moderators stepping up to the plate and taking quite a bit of load off of my shoulders here, this would have ended long ago..... A few others have been bending over backwards trying to drum up support in as many ways as they can, all via their own selfless efforts. As appreciated as all of these efforts are by me, still they cannot help with the other aspects that I now need to address. That is my job. One that cannot be done with the way things are here now. I believe that it is "change or die" time.

So if someone wants to get into a huff over a $10 fee being put in place to be able to post in certain areas, well gee to be honest, that just breaks my heart after what I have put into this site to get it where it is now. Hate to sound callous about it, but really, you can't be serious.....

 

[Vince]

can members who sighn up at the start be locked into the 10 dollar yearly charge? other sites as they become much more popular have raised prices.

 

[Tripple H Herps]

$10 will not hurt anyone. But it will set the bar high enough to filter out most of the problems on the BOI. It will lend a bit more credibility to the people posting there, and certainly I would feel more comforted knowing that the people posting in the classifieds weren't just some fly-by-night that created an identity 10 minutes ago just to post their ad. And it will pay me enough (after PayPal fees, etc) to make it worth my time to handle the inevitable snags that will crop up.

-Rich I said whatever was best for you & I meant it. You have been the one running the show the whole time. I think of everyone you should know how to fix the problems your running into. If it is a fee, then so be it!

If someone is not willing to spend $10 to post their bad experience about someone, then it really is not all that important to them, now is it? Why does someone post such a thing in the first place? What is their goal? Does that goal have a value to them? If not, then heck, they can keep it to themselves and not waste everyone's time. Maybe some of the more frivolous posts, the ones that are posted prematurely, will not be the problem it has in the past either.

-No Rich it is not. However what about all the good people out there who want to know whether or not they are going to get scammed? Maybe if these people dont find it important some one else will never know untill its to late.

As for the good guy posts, well all along I have felt that these should be the EXCEPTIONAL cases, not just a matter of someone doing what should be normal business practice. So yeah, I think if a customer gets treated in an exceptional manner, they will not mind at all spending $10 to be able to tell the world about it. No people are not going to pay $10 to be able to post that they ordered and animal and it showed up OK. That should be par for the course. But if things go wrong and you get taken care of above and beyond what you had expected, THOSE are the posts that should be placed on the BOI. In reality, if everything went exactly as it should be in all transactions, there would be nothing at all to post on the BOI. What I have wanted to see there all along, are the EXCEPTIONS to the norm, both good and bad. This is what people would be willing, I think, to pay the $10 to be able to post.

-Rich I think I said it already. You have been running the show a long time. Do whatever you think is best. I have only been a member for a short time.

If you like, look at it as an insurance policy that you can pay for retroactively, as needed. You can still read what is going on here, but if you don't have the need nor desire to post there right now, no problem. But at least you, and the potential bad guys, know it is there when you need it. And in the same vein, maybe it would be best to cut back some of the sideline chatter anyway, so I don't really think this will be a substantial drawback. From the start, people have complained about people who had no real stake in the issues chiming in, well here you go..... Maybe this will help somewhat to prune that sort of activity back a bit.

-To tell you the truth Rich, I changed my mind (or at least kind of). If it is only $10, I would have to vote yes. I would be more then willing to pay it. I was just worried about others. I am still not completly sure, however you did bring up some good points I did not think of. Whatever you decide to do, good luck! I hope it ends up working out for you. I am still a bit concerned about the bad guy posts, but maybe it would level off nicely in the end.
Oh p.s. I was thinking of contributing. How would you work that out if you made it a paysite? Would we still get those fancy little buttons...lol

 

[lyndz915]

I think that having to pay would drive people away and the BOI would not be very effective. People like me who use this board to find out about who to stay away from, would no longer be able to use it. Also, People who dont have a subscription wouldnt be able to post their experiences, which wouldnt be out there to inform others of reptile dealers.

Sharon Wells

 

[snakegetters]

You'll notice that out of the members who are registered here, only a small percentage have voted or offered any input on this situation. My feeling is that a similarly small percentage will pay the fee and continue participating here. I'll be sorry to see the BOI crippled, and I believe that this will be the final outcome.

 

[rob m]

You'll notice that out of the members who are registered here, only a small percentage have voted or offered any input on this situation. My feeling is that a similarly small percentage will pay the fee and continue participating here. I'll be sorry to see the BOI crippled, and I believe that this will be the final outcome.

I agree with snakegetters completely. I am very new here, I have been reading on this site for about two weeks now and this is my first post. I am pretty much just a small fry here, with just one leo right now, so maybe this sight is not made for people like me, I don't know. But if it was a paid site I could not see myself using it.
But if it was to become a free read, pay to post site, I may buy in if I thought I could use some advice or state my opinion. As it is now there is no other place I would feel as comfortable asking for others opinions.
Thanks

 

[David R.]

Attn: Rich

Pay for a subscription to the BOI?????????????? Please take two aspirin and call me in the morning. I get all the "DRAMA" I need in my life simply by watching "The Young and the Restless" everyday. I would not be willing to pay anything for the drama that now seems to be on the BOI on a daily basis.

That being said, I would be willing to pay up to $250.00 yearly for a "revised" and much more controlled "BOI".

Case and point: Hank Molt- I notice he recently started getting a number of "bad guy" type of reports. However, if you do a search(which I did not), I bet you would find just as many or more good reports on Hank. It's not possible to do as much business as Hank as done over the years and not have a few deals go sour and have a few customers that he was not able to totally please for one reason or another. So, did Hank recently just "go bad"? I'm just using "Hank" as an example. I do realize that "good dealers" go bad and bad dealers wake up one morning and "see the light". So, who do you believe? Especially a new person to the hobby/industry??? A new person looking to get into the hobby/industry who stumbles upon the BOI would be totally lost. I simply feel that the BOI in its current format makes it way to easy for back stabbing and ax grinding even when it is not called for or ligit. I would suggest that you do nothing and leave the BOI along and let people decide on their own even when there is conflicting reports. Or, charge a fee, hire some help and make some changes.

Thank you.

David Rivers

P.S. By the way, my limited dealings with Hank Molt has been nothing but top notch!

 

[Greg Riso]

Well Vince Rusello

Now I know who one of the people is that's to cheap and unwilling to contribute anything to this site. I don't appreciate your negative rating that has shown up on my name today because I referred to people such as yourself as cheap whiners. Funny, I don't see any contributor icon next to your name yet you don't hesiate to use all of the facilities here including negative feedback ratings. What was the purpose served in your giving me a negative rating? That's quite a joke coming from the likes of you. I've got news for you pal. I don't even post animals here for sale yet I do send in money from time to time to help Rich out. You post animals for sale but think it should remain free so let's just give a reputable person some negative points right? I'm willing to pay $35/yr to and that's a bad thing? Dumb@ss

 

[Vince]

profanity

 

[Vince]

I also gave quite a few people postive rep points for makeing great points and informative posts. sorry if you cant make a point with out profanity or calling people names like cheap , or free loaders. I USED to be like that to.

You should donate money to something becuse you belive in it, not for bragging rights , or to try and come off better then others. and if i sold anything useing this site since the time they started the new donation system with the icons and all that i would have. I dont buy reptile magizine am i cheap for that to?

im going to become a member when/if the owner of this site starts the new system. I am here every day and try to help others with information on anything I have knowlege about.

well this is off topic so hopefuly the post above this one explained why I gave you neg rep points. nothing personal.

 

[Glenn Bartley]

Rich,

Hypothetical musings made in public are generally intended by the writer to make people thing of what is thought. By reading what your wrote, it got me to think a certain way, which certainly had to be your intention.

No my intentions are not meant to get you to think a certain way, my intentions were meant to get you to think about someone else’s point of view about helping your site, and to offer various other ideas that you may not have thought about also in regard to helping your site.

You had intentions in mind when you wrote your words, likely with one of more effects in mind as a result. Be careful about what you wish for.

Yes I will admit to that, I had intentions when I wrote my words. I was intent on getting my ideas across on this issue so as to be of some help even if my ideas were not in line with your own. I wished for keeping this site free as you have always crusaded for it to remain. Need I be careful about wishing for that – I would hope not? My intentions are to try to keep the site free, or at least to get you to seriously consider how the site may be ruined if you charge for it or for part of it, especially the BOI.

As for this particular quote:

You are joking, right? Glenn, I am sorry now I even started to reply to this post. I have NO idea what you are even talking about any longer. But I might as well plug along and finish it. But PLEASE don't bother responding to it. I do not think we are thinking on the same wavelength.

As opposed to trying to get a further understanding of what I was writing about, you choose to again disrespectfully reply to my words. No I was not joking. I was offering up a radical alternative. That alternative, although radical, was based nonetheless upon your own words. You had said either earlier in this post, or in another, about the fees that: the BOI is believed by many to be useless. Then you went on to say that you believed it may be good simply for entertainment value! Do you really think the BOI is simply worthy of being there for entertainment value? If so why make such a big stink about charging a fee to prevent people from posting as multiple users on that particular forum?

What happened to all the crusading by the Rich Z of old against the dirt bag breeders and dealers who are out there? Yes once upon a time, you really meant it to be something that meant something in the business of herping. Now things apparently have changed though, so if you really think that about the BOI – it simply being of entertainment value – then yes it has lost all of its integrity as far as what you had intended it to be! If that is the case, then yes maybe you should trash it. I would hope you do not really believe it. Yet, if you want to make it purely of entertainment value and also pretty much useless (yes it would be useless in light of its original purpose) then why not just trash it instead of charging a fee for it! So, no my words were not meant as a joke, they were meant as an alternative based upon what you said. Were you sorry you read my post and responded to it, or were you sorry I made a point of your own words, or were you just being rude again?

As for the overall feeling I get from your last reply to my most recent previous post, I find it rather curious how you attack my ideas bit by bit by trying to say how confused I made you, how long it was, and how we are on a different wavelength and then tell me not to bother to reply! It is funny though how some others who read what I wrote apparently understood it, or at least did not look at my words as a joke, or as coming in as totally incomprehensible. Yes it was too long, I am pretty verbose! Yet if you did not understand it, then why not ask for an explanation in nice terms? I could have easily given you one. Issues in my previous post such as the big time herpers versus the small time herpers seemed to have you tinking I was being contradictory of myself. That as not the case at all, and it would have been easy to explain had you asked for an explanation nicely. Instead you go on to get rude again. You say our thinking is not on the same wavelength and you have no idea about what I am speaking as if it were mere gibberish. Then you have the nerve to tell me not to bother to reply! If you do not agree with my replies that is one thing, but if you do not even want me to reply, so much so that you have to tell me not to bother to do so, well that goes a long way to say something about you, doesn’t it?

I will admit one thing about the wavelength comment: Our lines of thought as expressed in our words may seem to be on a different wavelength to you; however I can assure you I have the best interests of this site in mind even if my opinions on this issue are not in agreement with your own. I have always been a supporter, and hope to remain one but, that would be very difficult for me if you are telling me we can notl have very different ideas on how to achieve the same goal! Therein though, I would hope that you see we are one the same wavelength as we both want to see this site continue to do well. The thing is though, based upon the quality of your replies to me, I sort of doubt that you are seeing that right now. Somehow though, with this site being a forum based site and all, I sort of doubt that you really want to shut me and my opinions up. However, if you really do not appreciate my ideas as opposed to merely disagreeing with them and, if you truly want me to stop posting, then simply tell me so again in a reply in this thread and I will desist. I may be thick headed yet, after being treated like poop more than a couple of times I usually get the idea.

 

[Bill_Leverton]

ok now that Ive posted more in one day then the whole time Ive been part of this site I still feel the same way I did when I started posting today what ever the cost Im here to stay .....and if it is only 10$ then i guess I'll have find something else to spend the remaining 25 on..... any ideas?