Paid subscription plan?

[Sunset Gecko]

My opinion

I think the best choice is $10 a year for now because $35 will chase away to many members. I personally would pay it, but I think the whole site would lose most of its effectiveness because customers aren't going to want to pay just to find out about the credibility of breeder and THEN pay for the animal itself, especially the people who just want the animals as pets.

 

[Glenn Bartley]

Rich,

Ever think of leaving the BOI eactly as it is; and instead of changing the BOI change how sales are handled on this site to include feedback for both the buyer and seller.

Would it be feasible to set up a sales system, similar to something ebay uses for auctions. No auction invloved, but make it so the seller has to go through your site's system to buy anything advertised therein. In other words, make it so any item offered has an item number. To buy that item, the person actually buying it has to click on a link that sends a purchase order to the seller. Of course an item could also be sold elsewhere (this is not an auction but an offering for sale dependent upon availability). If the item is still available the seller can then sell it to the potential buyer or choose not to. Once purchased the items is shown as no longer available automatically. When the deal is done the buyer of that particular item gets to leave feedback for the seller, and the seller gets to leave feedback for the buyer. The only other time someone should be allowed to leave feedback is when a purchase order is placed and the buyer or seller renegs on the deal already agreed upon. You could have a feature that both the dealer and buyer would have to link to to show the deal was agreed upon.

The feedback on anyone who went through your site in this manner to make the purchase or the sale is then viewable by everyone else who uses the site.

Maybe too expensive to implement, or maybe not practical on a for sale ad, I don't know. I do know it sure works on Ebay and other sites with auctions, and even with buy it now type of sales.

all the best,
Glenn B

 

[Glenn Bartley]

oh yeah, charging a fee for the for sale ads would also be implemented based on a percentage of the selling price. My guess is this would bring in quite a bit of money, and it would bring in a system that is in use on many other sites that is well respected in how it protects both the buyer and seller.

 

[Mickey_TLK]

Well I guess I will chime in again on Glenn's idea from a sellers perspective.

If I sound cheap, or wrong, sorry its just my opinon.

As a person who generally only post his higher end items for sell on the internet theese days, I WOULDNT post a thing on a site that took a percentage of my sale. I often have to give up a percentage to the cc company as it is, and on 1,000.00$ or more that gets to be a decent chunk of your profit. Top that off with the recent surges in shipping costs, and more of you profit can dissapear.

I would much rather pay one lump sum to advertise on a site, and take my chances with sales from there. Now Ive allready stated my success rate on selling via the site, and that would of course weigh in on my decision to pay to advertise here via paying for adds. Personally I would pay for banners here to support the site on principal, but if you asked me to "pay to advertise" in the classifieds you would likely get no responce from me. Im just being honest, not trying to slam the site.

Allong with being honest I will mention I havent posted anything for sale on the site in many months, so who knows it could be very different now. But then again I havent posted much on ks either, just to busy at the store.

I personally believe that pay to post on the boi is a death nail to the board. I still strongly believe that IF the goal is to cut down on the trolls, Tanith has had hands down the best idea to get the job done, withouth destroying what you have built.

Rich I honestly see NO PROBLEM with you makeing money on this site. I really wish you were. But I dont see this to be the solution. We have had our disagreements on this and other issues, but I am honestly saying this as a person who also believes he is looking out for the best of this site.

It really troubles me that you of all people are takeing the stance that the boi may just be a drama show. I understand the site has likely taken more that any of us could have handled from you, and for that Im sorry. For that you do deserve the right to make money on this site. That being said I think that if you want to make money from bigger advertisers, you will need to make changes.

Within this thread I have seen two things that really trouble me about this site. One was the situation with the attitude towards Glenns remarks to you. Again not to drag old crap up, but that was a point worthy thing. Thats the exact crap that made me pull my advertising from this site. If there is going to be a point system EVERYONE, includeing yourself, needs to abide by it. I was pointed for the first time for calling a person a liar and a theif. Others have been pointed for very similar comments to the ones you made. Again I know you say the point system isnt there to damage anyone, but I disagree.

Next the "reputation" system. I dont even understand it. Ive never used this function. But it seems to me that someone with a vendetta can rack up negative points on you, or vice versa. I wouldnt even know how to find out why my reputation is rated the way it is. Ive tried, but maybe I missed something.

I like all the new bells and whistles, but if they are abused they detract from what the site was intended to do. If certain people feel they are being ruled out by mods, they may be silenced rather then risk getting more warning points, and further risking the rath of the boi.

Honestly I liked it alot better back in the day when the boi was just the boi. No point system, no reputation bs, just the words in the threads to lay the story out. Live by the sword die by the sword. All the features lead to little kiddie games, and thats the kind of stuff that turns off a businessmen from supporting the site.

Im of the belief that there are enough "good guys" in this business that would find a way to pony up to save the site. Its in their intrest to weed out the dirtbag dealers to protect the hobby. Nothing turns herpers into ex herpers like being ripped off time and time again trying to persue the hobby they enjoy. Wasnt that really what the boi was started for?

Hope nothing I said cuts anyone the wrong way, just my opinions on the subject, and Im sorry if Im coming off like a clone of Glenn, the words just get long when you have an opinon it seems.

 

[W.Wedeking]

There are many of us here who already donate much more than $35 per year as well as donate time. Correct me if I am wrong, but it seems to be among a few "core" members that these donations come from. I can see justifying special privileges for those members.

However, I think charging a membership fee would cause alot of members to leave, possibley leaving only those core members who donate anyway and a handful of others.

As far as the BOI is concerned, I think this would pretty much nullify any possible "peer pressure" effect on presumed "bad guys" that the BOI has. It would lose it's power because only a few people would be viewing or even caring about the bad guy posts.

If it is revinue that Rich needs to justify keeping this site going, (or to compensate for the nagging, petty garbage, insults and threats) charging to post classifieds would be the best way to go.

Another option may be "merchandising"....Fauna is a popular site for herps, I would buy a Fauna T-shirt.

 

[WebSlave]

I wished for keeping this site free as you have always crusaded for it to remain. Need I be careful about wishing for that – I would hope not? My intentions are to try to keep the site free, or at least to get you to seriously consider how the site may be ruined if you charge for it or for part of it, especially the BOI.

Glenn, I am sorry but I am just getting worn down with all of this. Worn down and a little angry as well. Yeah, it does get under my skin when people tell me "Hey thanks for the really swell site, Rich, but if you charge money for it so you can maybe make a buck instead of doing it all for free, well heck, I would rather leave the site." So yeah, I might get a little short with my replies. No real "excuse", but a "reason".

But about your quote concerning my "crusade". Nope. When advertising was first brought up during the second rendition of HerpWantAds, when James Thornton was doing the sales part of it, I wrote a notice stating that I was going to try banner ads to advertisers to see if that would work to help pay the expenses. Matter of fact, click on the "Advertisers" link at the top of the screen in the menu bar "Inside FaunaClassifieds" and you will see pretty much what I had posted way back then. The banner ads were offered as an "either/or" situation. Meaning if they don't work, then either something else would need to be tried or the site goes bye-bye. This thought was from the very beginning and has NEVER waivered. If all of the advertisers dropped out tomorrow, and no other means presented itself to pay the bills (or at least most of them) from this site, then I would pull the plug on this and be done with it. The only site I REALLY need is my SerpenCo web site, and I could put that on a simple web hosting plan for under $10 per month. I certainly don't need leased servers and all of the trappings that goes along with it for me to maintain that site.

So if my memory serves me well I have been TRYING the banner ads as the primary source of income for this site since roughly October of 2001. How long do you think I should keep on plugging away at this before I decide that I need to try something else. Am I being a little too impatient by not waiting any longer?

Even then, I am trying to tie this together with a reasonable solution to keeping frivolous posts made on the BOI by anonymous persons using bogus names. It is not perfect, of course, but I think it is a step in the right direction to help with the problem.

No I haven't run the figures yet for 2004, but I think I may be operating in the black now. But it will be a LONG time coming paying back the past expenses I have incurred, much less make this earning an hourly wage that even Chinese slave labor would be satisfied with.

So if I implement this will it kill the BOI and this site? Well I don't know. But if keeping it running requires that I keep doing this basically for free for as long as I live, then I just don't need to keep doing this any longer. Heck, if I am going to get paid nothing for my time, then why not do something else more enjoyable with it?

So I do apologize for being rude at times, but sometimes rudeness is the shortest distance between two points when I am trying to make a point in my writing.

As for my quip about not responding to my reply, maybe that was not presented the way it should have come across. Basically, I am repeating everything I say many times. And I am seeing people repeating the same stuff as well. Let me rephrase that quip to say "Please don't bother repeating what has already been said in yet another post." I have read them all, am digesting them, and really do not want to spend any more of my time reading the same things said by the same person using different wording.

That was not written with the intention of being rude, but I am certain it can be construed as being that way.

 

[lizwinz]

let me start by saying that while i dont post much...i've been here for a little while now and really appreciate fauna and all the work Rich has done to make it the place it is

not too long ago i thought to myself what a valuable site this has been to me, i'm sure it's saved me plenty of money and heartache by allowing me to find out someone was a "bad guy" before i made the mistake of dealing with them

so i made a donation and plan to make more in the future...but would i have paid a fee when i first got here? i'm sorry but no...would i have even stuck around if i knew i would have to pay a fee in order to post...again, sorry but no

Rich, i'm not sure what the larger issue is here, time & money or limiting registering/posting ability to those willing to pay but i'd like to give my opinions on both, i hope you'll read this

as far as the time and money issue...i dont pretend to know how much work you've put into this site but i'm sure youre justified in wanting something out of it...but will the boi be worth paying for anymore once there is a fee for posting ability?

one of the things imo that makes the boi great its that anyone can post their experience good or bad...if that's taken away i'm afraid the boi wont be the same anymore

i think Steve S. had something there when he mentioned downsizing these forums a bit to make things easier for you...personally i only read the boi, classifieds, business discussions, i hardly ever read other discussion forums because not much happens there or its something i find elsewhere so i'm guessing not many other people are active in some of those forums either...if they were maybe they would be more interesting to me

theres alot of species specific forums out there for everyone that have alot more traffic, maybe posting a links page to help people find them would be time better spent and less work for you

to bring in more money for the site:

charge for classifieds...i'm surprised at how generous you've been by not charging...you could charge per ad, have flat fees for different price ranges of animals/goods sold, charge by percentage for high dollar items sold, business accounts for larger breeders or any other way that seemed fair to you and i think it would bring alot of money to the site...i dont think anyone would have a problem with this and if they did the are selfish and freeloading and you dont need them anyway

there's probably more ways to bring money in such as selling things with fauna logo...i could sure use some more tshirts & coffee mugs and i'm sure others could as well...some people like to get something material for their money...and even if it is a little overpriced they'll pay if it's going to benefit something they like or if it's for someone deserving

as for the "troll" issue:

i've seen it going on, waded and picked through some of the nonsense that goes on here to find what i need and while i wish it wasnt a problem, it's seems to be one of those "take the good with the bad" situations imo...how many bad guys wouldn't be found out & how many good guys would never have gotten a fair shot if it werent for the boi and the openess of it as it is now?...if you charge for posting you will gain alot of control but might lose something more precious and unique

i didnt vote in the poll because none of them fit my opinion, for the record, i would be willing to pay $35 a year to this site but only if it stayed the same as it is now...sadly, i see it changing (and not for the better) if people are not free to post their experiences

also classifieds here are imo the best mostly because of the boi being on this site so people dont get away with bogus ads, stealing others pics etc

the boi is unique and there is nothing else like it, probably never will be...i hope it never changes

sorry to all for the super long post...i guess when it rains it pours

i just wanted to say my peace and throw some ideas out there because i really do care about this site

--liz

 

[Dennis Hultman]

Hey thanks for the really swell site, Rich, but if you charge money for it so you can maybe make a buck instead of doing it all for free, well heck, I would pay the fee.

--------------

This is a great site I have contributed maybe only a hundred dollars in the last couple of months between contributions and auctions and will continue to help support the site.

Just my opinion and nobody take it personally, I just cannot understand the people that spend so much of their time here and have over a thousand posts under their belts can't even contribute $25.00 to the site.

I think by the time someone actually has established himself or herself here and by after posting two or three hundred times they would see the value of the site and would be willing to pay a yearly fee.

If you charged a fee after a certain amount of posts would give the new person a chance to see what this site has to offer. Which will keep it free for the casual user. If they do not contribute after that they are just trolling around and delete the user name. Plain and simple. If they have established their name they are not going to give it up to reregister a fake name.

As far as the classifieds, you have to pay to earn anything. I would love to go to my local newspaper and tell them I want to put up an ad but do not charge me or I will not buy your newspaper anymore. You think it would work?

Rich, do what you think is best. I think this is a great route, you keep everything free for the casual poster (non-classified) and viewer and charge the rest.

I think both sides of this issue wins, people have access but when they drive your costs up (time, effort, server) they pay.

P.S.
When you start printing those t-shirts Rich, do not forget the hats.

 

[snakegetters]

Glenn, I am sorry but I am just getting worn down with all of this. Worn down and a little angry as well. Yeah, it does get under my skin when people tell me "Hey thanks for the really swell site, Rich, but if you charge money for it so you can maybe make a buck instead of doing it all for free, well heck, I would rather leave the site." So yeah, I might get a little short with my replies. No real "excuse", but a "reason".

A number of us who are arguing against implementing a fee for basic use of the board are not doing so because we are too cheap to pay fairly for what we recognize is a lot of time and effort on your part. We are desperately trying to suggest solutions that will work in the real world and that won't kill the BOI. I do believe that there are alternative solutions (like charging for classified ads and for levels of membership beyond the most basic) that will still leave the BOI functional.

I'm personally willing to give time and money to this board, but I'm also aware that I am in a significant minority as indicated by the relatively small number of people who actually voted or offered any input here.

 

[snakegetters]

I think that the "free sample" model stands a good chance of working - new members get X months and/or X posts for free, then they must pay.

I also think that if you don't grandfather in all the current registrants at the most basic level, the drop in membership will be so immediate and precipitous that you will have difficulty justifying your costs to your advertisers. If you make sure that the most basic level does not include any bells or whistles, like photo posting, classified ads or private messaging, you stand a good chance of getting this revenue from many of the current registrants anyhow.

I think that the "pay as you go" model won't work for some people, and here's why. I don't have any personal stake in a lot of the threads I put in my .02 on. I'm just trying to help with useful factoids like "Yes, there *is* an effective ante-mortem test for IBD that your veterinarian may not know about." If I have to pay to help people solve their problems, I'm probably not going to take my time AND pay my money to do other people's homework. So with this model, the folks who actually have the factual answers are less likely to be helping the people who might be able to use them to solve their disputes.

 

[nicolai]

Hers my Idea..

Level 1) Free - status = "participant"
a) access to BOI to search and view - no posting
b) access to all participate in reptile and animal talk forums
c) access to view classified

Level 2)10.00yr - status = "Member"
a) everything included in level 1
b) Ability to post on the BOI
c) access to user "CP" (avatar and profile included)
d) Private messaging enabled
e) ability to participate in auctions
f) Able to use the "Live Chat" room

Level 3)25.00yr - status = "Contributing Member"
a) Everything included in levels 1 and 2
b) Access to "hell"
c) Ability to give and recieve "reputation points"
d) Free link to personal Web page under Avatar
e) access to post in higher forums ( feedback forum,legal forum, etc..all forums)
f) ability to contact "moderators/Rich" meaning reporting bad posts,problems. and other issues...this would keep the complaints dowwn to a minimum and less whining to listen to.


Level 4)35.00yr - "Full Member"
a) everything included in levels 1 through 3
b) Ability to post classified Ads
c) Ability to post thier banner on every classified ad they post.
d) Ability to link thier ads to thier BOI Reputation "if they want"
e) free picture hosting for thier ads

If you dont agree just say so, please dont slam my rep points.

 

[DAND]

Level 1) Free - status = "participant"
a) access to BOI to search and view - no posting
b) access to all participate in reptile and animal talk forums
c) access to view classified

Level 2)10.00yr - status = "Member"
a) everything included in level 1
b) Ability to post on the BOI
c) access to user "CP" (avatar and profile included)
d) Private messaging enabled
e) ability to participate in auctions
f) Able to use the "Live Chat" room

Level 3)25.00yr - status = "Contributing Member"
a) Everything included in levels 1 and 2
b) Access to "hell"
c) Ability to give and recieve "reputation points"
d) Free link to personal Web page under Avatar
e) access to post in higher forums ( feedback forum,legal forum, etc..all forums)
f) ability to contact "moderators/Rich" meaning reporting bad posts,problems. and other issues...this would keep the complaints dowwn to a minimum and less whining to listen to.


Level 4)35.00yr - "Full Member"
a) everything included in levels 1 through 3
b) Ability to post classified Ads
c) Ability to post thier banner on every classified ad they post.
d) Ability to link thier ads to thier BOI Reputation "if they want"
e) free picture hosting for thier ads.

Sheet doggie... that sounds good to me provided it doesn't cause too many issues or costs for Rich to implement.

 

[Python Dreams]

I have been coming here for a few years, and I definitely feel that the site is worth the $10 a year. I think that is about all I have ever contributed and it was quite awhile ago. At the same time I feel that the usefulness would probably suffer. If people have to pay money to post their experience, or add some knowledge to a post (Tanith as an example) they would more than likely just skip it. I have not bought an animal in quite some time, so if I knew this would be true for the future to come, I might just wait that six months or year to register until I was ready to start buying and selling (especially holds true for someone who is new here), again losing possible good information on possible bad or good guys being brought to light.
I also don't think anyone expects Rich to work for free, but as it stands the BOI is the most useful tool in the reptile business and has probably helped more people than anyone could ever imagine. But... I've always felt that the site was a little bit much. SO many forums for whatever you were possibly thinking or whatever reptile you are keeping. Really trying to be the next Kingsnake with something for everyone. Awhile back I would always check out the other forums here and it was so slow moving that I would lose interest. Maybe things have changed now and these forums are a bit busier which would then lead to more time in moderating. But we all could probably agree that the BOI is the reason everyone comes here and stays here, the rest is just icing.
It really comes down to what you want out of the site Rich. Do you want it to become the next Kingsnake (assuming they are the premiere reptile site, which would probably lose a vast majority of their forum posters if they start charging), with every need for reptile enthusiasts filled from head to toe? Is it in this direction or no direction at all? Do you mainly just want an avenue for people to find out about bad and good guys? Are classified sections a necessity for the site? Do you need to have auctions and ratings like Reptibid (I think, I have never used that site)? Do you want this site as a money maker or as a tool against cons?
Those types of questions could probably go on forever and none were meant in any way negative, so I will sum it up with what I would do.
If you want to be the next Kingsnake/Reptibid/TRR (trying to think of reptile sites) all rolled into one, probably the only way to do it would be to get enough people to come here, so that you can justify classified add prices, higher banner rates, forum sponsor rates. I know this is probably exactly what you have been doing, but if that is your goal, you will probably have to keep struggling to make it a money making venture. I cannot imagine getting an email from Kingsnake asking for yearly fees to view and post in their forums, post pictures, etc... But they also demand a large amount of money in advertising and have waits for forum sponsorships.
If your goal is to cut down on the work load and just keep the site going, I would cut out alot of the stuff. No more rep points (never really understood how they really worked anyway, along with adding a clique type feeling), no more auctions, or photo hosting services. I would cut down on most of the forums, leaving it mainly the BOI and The Classifieds. Maybe leave in a couple snake forums (pythons, boas, colubrids, venemous), a couple lizard forums, etc... Maybe just remove them completely. Heavily focus on the BOI as the main draw to the site and charge something small ($5 or $10 annually) to post in the classifieds. Then advertise some Fauna and BOI hats, shirts, mugs, etc... This would drastically cut down on the moderating and work load of the site, along with probably bringing in some cash.
Sorry for such a long post, but I have not responded to this topic and finally took the time to actually think about it, so it all came out in one big blob. I hope it was actually constructive and not just incessant ramblings...
Thanks,
Tom Baker

 

[Glenn Bartley]

I have read every post here at least twice and many of them three or more times. I hope I am not beating a dead horse on any issue I bring up, but it is pretty hard to remember everything that was written in such a large thread as is this one.

I keep seeing people suggesting that you charge for the herps for sale/wanted ads. I would think that would bring in money but maybe there simply are not enough of those ads to make this work. If you think it would raise a profit, then I do not understand why you would hesitate to do such. You could probably charge a one time listing fee for really small time sellers, and you could charge a monthly fee for larger sellers, and you could also charge a yearly fee for those who would go that way. If you did implement that, I would suggest looking at some way of keeping ads to a minimum each month, maybe eliminating all ads at the end of the calendar month regardless of when placed in that month or, having ads last 30 days then self destructing at whatever point is that particular ad's 30 day mark (not necessarily the end of the calendar month). If you leave it to the dealers as you do now to delete old ads, many would likely forget. While some sellers may complain that you are charging, I do not understand how someone could make money off of your site and not be willing to repay you for their profit making. Those free ads are one of the things I really do not understand about this site.

I still think charging for the BOI is not the way to go to reduce anything except maybe volume. Let me explain it a bit differently than I did before, and allow me to use evidence that you can find on the site. Anyone with money can still register numerous times and keep posting even if you charge a fee. The fee may not be the incentive you think it would be to prevent people from registering multiple times. If you do not think that is the case look to your current fine system. I saw some people have paid three or four fines to remain here (I will not point out anyone specifically but you can easily find them as did I), and the price keeps going up with each new fine - I think it doubles. Those same people who are getting fined and who keep paying the fines would likely be the ones to be willing to pay to re-register to keep posting on the BOI. So what would have been accomplished by charging a fee to use the BOI. You will likely have cut out anyone who would not pay the fee both the good and the bad posters, and would leave good and bad posters who would pay it. In essence all I see it as doing is cutting back on volume, and maybe making it look like more of a clique than anyone ever before accused it of being (no I am not saying it is a clique now but others have said it). I may not have a solution to the problem of multiple users, trash, and nonsense on the BOI but, I do not think charging for it is the way to go.

As for the merchandise marketing that someone suggested, that could be a boon or boondoggle for this site. You could make a lot of money off of it, especially at first, but it may not be worth the effort. You would need to find merchandise manufacturers, you would need to find storage for the merchandise or sell it through the manufacturer, you might need contractual agreements with the supplier, you might need a staff to sell the stuff. It would be a lot more work added to your already busy schedule. Of course, it may also be the way to go because you might sell enough on a regular basis to keep afloat in high fashion - especially if the items sold were unique to your business. Of course there is also product liability involved, but that is what insurance companies are for.

As far as contributions go, I am a bit confused. When I looked to find how someone would currently make a contribution I found three levels of giving money. One was to highlight an ad for $1.00 per ad for 30 days, another was to contribute $25.00 as a faunaclassifieds official contributor, and another was to sponsor a link to the contributor’s website at a cost of $50.00. So what if someone wanted to make a contribution of $5.00, or $10.00 or, let’s say of $50.00 and that person did not have a web site? My guess is, unless I have missed something, you are losing money you would otherwise receive as contributions because you have limited a contributor’s options. What happened to that good old make a donation button? Why not ad one of those right under the other contributor options, then all donation bases would be covered. As for what to write under the simple donation: just say it is ‘a simple donation nothing gained but the satisfaction of having helped out a great site and a great webmaster’.

Of course, after reading all of these posts again and again and; after trying to put myself in your shoes, I guess if you absolutely have to charge people to use this site I will probably wind up paying. I won't like it! I would rather just keep making yearly donations as opposed to being charged a membership fee or a schedule of various membership fees with varying levels of membership. Someone else, or maybe even a few, have pointed out that would mean many of us are giving our info to others in the forums, thereby drawing more new people to this site, and you would be charging us to do that. That seems kind of odd even though there are other benefits to using this site. As for my other reasons, I will leave them as having been already explained enough times by now.

I still hope though that a fee would not be required for full access and use of the BOI – that I think would be a big mistake. Then again I don’t have a crystal ball either. Good luck…..

All the best,
Glenn B

 

[Jan Orcutt]

I'm not sure what to recommend, although it might be a good idea to keep the BOI free. It's the part of the site I use the most, and because I personally find it so useful, I'm happy to contribute to Fauna on a yearly basis Up to $50 would be fine for me. I realize there are a lot of people who think the internet should be "free", but they aren't thinking about how much it costs to run something like this. Rich isn't obligated to keep this going just so that someone can use it as much as s/he wants without having to bear any of the cost. Sites like this are expensive to run!

Maybe have different levels of contribution like someone else suggested? I get a lot of "invitations" in the mail to contribute to my alumni assoc., planned parenthood, nature conservancy, etc. etc. I choose the amount I give based on what I can afford. I don't expect extras because I give $50 instead of $25; my goal is to help the organization, not get free pencils, stickers, or fridge magnets.

I also like the idea of charging for the classifieds. With one exception, all my less satisfactory purchases were with sellers who advertise only in free classifieds. If you make them pay, possibly it will keep some of the scammers away.

Jan

 

[reptilebreeder]

The fee may not be the incentive you think it would be to prevent people from registering multiple times. If you do not think that is the case look to your current fine system. I saw some people have paid three or four fines to remain here (I will not point out anyone specifically but you can easily find them as did I), and the price keeps going up with each new fine - I think it doubles. Those same people who are getting fined and who keep paying the fines would likely be the ones to be willing to pay to re-register to keep posting on the BOI. So what would have been accomplished by charging a fee to use the BOI.

I disagree, the people who keep paying the fines are people who wish to keep their real name and identity, and many if not most of them are actually good guys who just get a little carried away. You can look at many, many of the bad guys and see that they went away after the first $10 fine was levied, or they were caught signing up under a different name/identity, just because they didn't want to pay the $10.
Granted, $10 is not a panacea, but given the history it should eliminate some of the problems.
I mean for crying out loud, we have people who have been here for years and/or have 1000's of posts who say they won't pay, so it sure as heck is going to keep some of the trolls and bad guys from registering or returning under an alias.

 

[shrap]

After having read every post on all of the similar threads, including Rich's rebuttals and reasoning for doing so, I have personally come to the conclusion that Rich is right and should just go ahead and charge the $10. Right now. End the banter and charge the $10. Now.

Keep EVERYTHING free to read, just a $10 membership fee to be able to post. It seems to be the least complicated and the most effective way to solve many of the problems on many levels.

That way people can still utilize the BOI, and will be able to get a feel for the site as a whole so they will be able to decide for themselves if it is worth $10 to be a member of this great community. In the long run I think the site will not only survive, but prosper into something even better.

$10 is nothing folks. Particularly if Rich is right....and I think he is.

 

[snakegetters]

Summary of the points that seem to be valid so far.

1. There has to be a change. Fauna is not going to continue with no revenue other than the banner ads, which are not effective. Some revenue must be generated, or Rich cannot (and should not, in fairness) continue to do all this work and spend all this money for the community's benefit. Without a regular infusion of cash, this board will go away. Cold hard sad fact.

2. The average person whose input is necessary in order to be a truly effective monitoring site is not going to vote in these polls, post their opinion here or pay any fee to participate. They'll go to a free site and abandon the BOI. If the people who already have accounts here are suddenly confronted with a demand to pay up or leave, the vast majority of them will leave. Charging for posting access to the BOI is very likely to cripple its usefulness as a general barometer for the state of the industry. A grandfather clause giving free basic membership to everyone already signed up (until they get tossed off for infractions) might go a long way towards mitigating this, to avoid a sudden drop in the membership base.

3. The "regulars" here who have had a chance to read and post for awhile will be much more willing to pay for their accounts than a newcomer would be. In fact some are very willing to contribute a fair amount of money. This suggests that the "one month free" model would be more likely to work than simply asking for money up front before any participation was allowed.

4. Contributing money right now is hard to do. The buttons for donating money to the site are not easy to find. More than one person has mentioned this. Fixing this problem is likely to lead to an immediate increase in contributions, especially if you were selling extra membership privileges that the basic members who were grandfathered in would no longer have.

5. The BOI is Fauna's main asset and main draw, and currently the best and largest "better business bureau" site for the herp business world. It has achieved this status over the years in part because of its wide open public access. Because it has such a draw, this means that classified ads here have real value.

6. The same open public access that has made the BOI such a wide reaching success is also causing problems with credibility, as people can make unlimited free accounts.

7. The final solution we need to implement should ideally solve both the credibility problem (no more ability to make unlimited free accounts so you can post flattering nonsense about yourself or come right back after a ban) as well as the revenue problem.

8. The final solution cannot cost a lot of programming time and money to implement. It has to be fairly simple and straightforward.

Does that about sum it up?

 

[craig kade]

I guess I will chime in again. I do think it is fair to charge for the classifieds, I have said that before, but if the cost got up in the $45 dollar range, I think alot of advertisers, including myself would go somewhere else. As much as I love this site and find it extremely important, I have had much better luck actually selling things on other sites. I do appreciate webslave taking the time to get all this feedback, I think in the end he will have to decide what he feels is best, implement it, and see what happens. We all have theorys as to how many will not pay what fees, but I think in the end we will have to see what happens. Craig

 

[lizwinz]

As for the merchandise marketing that someone suggested, that could be a boon or boondoggle for this site. You could make a lot of money off of it, especially at first, but it may not be worth the effort. You would need to find merchandise manufacturers, you would need to find storage for the merchandise or sell it through the manufacturer, you might need contractual agreements with the supplier, you might need a staff to sell the stuff. It would be a lot more work added to your already busy schedule. Of course, it may also be the way to go because you might sell enough on a regular basis to keep afloat in high fashion - especially if the items sold were unique to your business. Of course there is also product liability involved, but that is what insurance companies are for.

all very true but maybe there is a simpler way to go about things such as cafe press http://www.cafepress.com/cp/info/tour/entrepeneur/

it seems they take care of most everything and all Rich would have to do would be to create an account, choose which products he would like them to sell and upload images...unless i'm misssing something...i havent researched it throughly but its an idea

no upfront costs for Rich and while the profits from the items may be less than if he handled it himself it wouldnt be as much of a headache

also either in this thread or another i believe someone mentioned they would be willing to donate images...if others would do this as well it would create quite a variety in addition to the fauna logo that would possibly increase profits

--liz