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Bad Guy pat kline (Luxurious leopards)

Moving on, I think that Pat owes Jeremy the granite AFT or a fair market value for it as credit. Since no money was involved in this trade, it really shouldn’t come in as factor after the fact.

I could not (respectfully) disagree more...just because Pat threw in the granite to sweeten the pot and appease a demanding customer who wanted his animals shipped in dangerously hot weather does not mean he should offer market value in cash. If I offer someone a FREE animal worth 'X' amount of dollars, it does NOT mean I am actually offering them 'X' amount of dollars. Again, the granite shipped on Pat's dime is the easiest solution. Otherwise a $50 credit to his site seem reasonable enough. Jeremy, take it or leave it, that is on you.

As for the "scary skinny" geckos, I don't know who Jeremy was trying to kid, but the tails in both pics are clearly thicker than the pen, even to an untrained eye such as mine.
 
I fail to see where Pat went wrong. He is keeping is composure, offering many options, and doing pretty much the complete opposite of what typical bad guy's would so in his situation.

That being said, Jeremy, whats the point of sending dis-respectful / childish text's to Pat :shrug01: . I honestly dont see the point? Maybe I missed this, but what can Pat do (besides cash) to resolve this? Because the way this is going IMHO the only one that looks like a bad guy, or rather "bad child", is you Jeremy. I mean come on....Honestly? A pencil comparison? Be grateful Pat is here trynig to rectify the situation...

Just my thoughts
 
At no point did i decline taking pics, just said they were normals-meaning wild type looking geckos (nodescription to the weight, which i still dont see as dangerously skinny). At this point we are not texting any more, which is fine. My solutions are one the table and have been for the minimal time i had to offer them.
I will absolutely not be giving cash in this trade. I can not do anymore then i have already done here to go above and beyond to make jeremy satisfied in this trade. I really do not know the level of breeding jeremy has done, but it is not uncommon for females to need a bit of weight after a good season. I say give them a week or 2 before going nuts and saying they are garbage.

Also at NO time did i say I wanted the 2 eggs that were laid unexpectedly. IN FACT I stated in this thread if he wants whats in them he can have them, so how am I hiding things or not trying to rectify the situation? Now with that said he may have the hatchlings but im not paying shipping twice.
 
here it is pat contacted me on gecko forums interested of the 20 baby lot,but didnt want to pay cash,so i mentioned trade such as het radars being baby or adults we talked about getn a box big enough to put 20 in and both of us didnt have 1,then i mentioned could pat take in 40 he said he could so i eventually found a box,pat would not do the trade unless i shipped that week before myrtle beach show,so i sent 40 babies his way,when they arrived he said everyone was fine,my end of the trade was 3 double het radars and a emerine x halloween mask x boldstripe,i tried to get him to ship same day he wouldnt so i waited patiently for the next monday to come around and that night he says he dont want to ship because of the weather,why would pat want me to ship in 95 degree weather but he cant(something fishy there)so he says he'll throw in a granite didnt say which an adult or juvinile,there wasnt much said about weight other then the fact that they been done layn for 2 months.and then the night his geckos are on the way he tells me 1 laid for him 5 days ago,could he not tell me that 5 days ago come on really.
pat what numerous options have u given when we texted each other earlier the only option u give me was some of my babies back,i didnt want that thats the only option u give me.
show me where you told me about weight because ive kept all my messages and i know we spoke on the phone but the only thing said was done layn for 2 months.i can show you pics of the geckos i keep thats been done layn for 2 to 3 months there up in the 50 gram range,i just weighed the to smaller ones and 1 is 32 grams and other is 39 grams,ive got 2011 babies bigger then 32 grams,and the 3rd het radar that i havent mentioned is pressing 65 grams,so why did i get two 30 gram geckos and 1 65 gram leopard gecko is left up to pat,as far as the text messages go i was at work couldnt get to a computer and i was telling pat to quit lying about all the options i was given,a buddy of mine told me thats how i knew,and he kept texting me trying to tell me to feed them crickets,my response was i dont feed crix,his was they love them,my response was their weight shows how much they love em,so how is that sarcastically text messaging,you all can decide,as for the granite he can keep it plus all the other things hes got going on there at his place.
i made this thread to stop people from sending over bred geckos to people who they think dont know whats going on
 
here is a pic of one of the 3 double het radars runny poop right of food bowl and if u notice inside the food bowl a bunch of balled up mealies,is this suppose to come from a gecko that just needs to be fattened up?

View attachment 272056

here is an example of my females thats been done layn for two months
here is my example of female 2 months done layn.jpg
 
I wanted to add that I did a trade with Pat. Everything went well and there were no problems.

I would not ship on any day where the high temp is 90+.

oh kristi you dont ship geckos in high temps,do you remember what the temps were july 12 when you sent this package to me
003.jpg
notice the no extreme temps on the side of box must of been a cool day
 
He took the babies to the myrtle beach show, not all, but trading back is unneccesary at this point. Maybe I over reacted but Ive been a breeder for 2 years now and just expected such a prominent breeder such as Pat to send me better quality geckos, not so skinny, regardless when they last laid. I understand the granite was offered, but should have been shipped with others and not forgotten. I have been more than fair in all my tradings, and expect the same from those I trade with. Knowing the health and size of his geckos, I would rather have the money to buy else where instead of another trade off. Im not "bashing" anyone and I never meant it to be such. The only option he gave me was babies, instead of replacing the het radars with healthier radars. That was the only option I had from him, therefore we could not reach an agreement.
 
oh kristi you dont ship geckos in high temps,do you remember what the temps were july 12 when you sent this package to me
notice the no extreme temps on the side of box must of been a cool day
Getting snippy with people isn't a good way to get them on your side. Rushing someone to send you animals in extreme weather is a good way to get a box of dead animals, as a breeder of 2 years you should know better. :shrug01: Now Pat has offered to send you the Granite and the two babies if you want them, which IMO is a very generous offer.
 
At the very least I think he should give you a extended health guarantee on the geckos and you should get the free granite he promised shipped to you at his cost.
 
Getting snippy with people isn't a good way to get them on your side. Rushing someone to send you animals in extreme weather is a good way to get a box of dead animals, as a breeder of 2 years you should know better. :shrug01: Now Pat has offered to send you the Granite and the two babies if you want them, which IMO is a very generous offer.

really alex your going to critize me for wanting my geckos but turn cheek about him wanting his,im not getting snippy with anyone,ive got 2 yrs into this hobby how many yrs does pat have,two babies in my opinion dont add up to 300 dollars,i cant get people on my side anyways,it doesnt matter what i post most of you overlook what ive written
 
really alex your going to critize me for wanting my geckos but turn cheek about him wanting his,im not getting snippy with anyone,ive got 2 yrs into this hobby how many yrs does pat have,two babies in my opinion dont add up to 300 dollars,i cant get people on my side anyways,it doesnt matter what i post most of you overlook what ive written

He offered you the two babies AND the granite AFT...
 
Those animals have never seen mealworms before, Im allergic to mealies. I told you they eat supers and circkets. Sorry cant help im allergic to the food item you feed. At this point Im done with this. I have offered you animals on my dime, and you have made it clear you only want cash. That alone seems weird, hmmmm maybe you really just wanted a sale out of this and never a trade---Maybe traders remorse here???????
Also if my collection is soooo horrible and i sell sick animals why are all the thread below about me great? And why are you my only "bad Guy" thread in 11 years in the business?

Look Your not happy, obviously I get that. But your not allowing any solutions. If you do not want what we have to offer I can not help you. By the way if you like Ill make a video of the collection so you and everyone can see just how sick my collection is? '
 
I don't see anything at all wrong with the leopards in the pictures. I don't think the buyer has a leg to stand on concerning them, especially just asking for money back. IMO, it's way out of line.

However, the granite was supposed to go to him, so he should still get that if he's willing. He's stated he doesn't want anything from Pat, so that's off the table I guess.

Looks to me like the buyer is WAY over-reacting here and just being difficult.
 
oh kristi you dont ship geckos in high temps,do you remember what the temps were july 12 when you sent this package to me
View attachment 272066
notice the no extreme temps on the side of box must of been a cool day

The high temps that day were under 90 degrees on the forecast or I wouldn't have shipped. I write no extreme temps on the box so that they don't put them directly in the sun. It's on every box that I ship in the summer. I have someone waiting in FL for geckos before his lowest high temp is 92.

I've had good transactions with both of you, so please don't try to drag me into it. I was stating the experience I had with Pat and the temp problem. Not once did I say anything negative about you.
 
I just checked your weather for the 12th and 13th of July. It was 86-90 degrees. The forecast predicted 85-89 degrees for those two days. Looks like it got a couple degrees higher than predicted.
 
really alex your going to critize me for wanting my geckos but turn cheek about him wanting his,im not getting snippy with anyone,ive got 2 yrs into this hobby how many yrs does pat have,two babies in my opinion dont add up to 300 dollars,i cant get people on my side anyways,it doesnt matter what i post most of you overlook what ive written

Actually those 2 offspring could equal way more then $300. It is het radar to snow radar pairing. The very least is 2 het radars equaling your $300, but then again who cares. Im trying to give you more then your asking for and you keep being difficult. And people arent overlooking what your saying, just not agreeing with you.
 
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