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Bad Guy pat kline (Luxurious leopards)

That wasn't stated. The statement said "show" leos for shows. I understand you are trying to get the most of your table fee, but there have been many times I went to a show light on volume. I just hope you stock up on lower end leos so you can produce them in house. In my opinion I would be happier if I was buying a $15 leo knowing they came from you and not someone you traded. How bummed would you be if you went a well know leo breeder because of the reputation they have with knowledge, experience and so forth. You buy a leo and then you see a thread like this and think was mine a trade leo or was it in house. I guess that is my point
 
I totally agree with you. The majority of this trade was to bulk production for the next year. Last year we cut back alot because of the market, but now sales are increasing so we needed more breeders.

Back to the topic at hand:

Im willing to give a Gproject animal to show that our customer service is top notch, even though i do not beleive it is warrented. But we do not run a business that allows customers to be unhappy with their purchase/trade.

In turn I beleive it would be a nice gesture to have a good guy thread about our business when this is all said and done. I think I have shown more then enough initative to help jeremy, and dont think we should suffer a bad guy thread.
 
Wait, Jeremy. If you think Pat is such a bad guy, why do you want to get another animal from him? Seems to me like you just want the high end gecko.
 
Pat and myself have solved this issue,like i said in a previous post i went over board when i said they were scary skinny,i apologize to you pat,im very sorry
but im not use to getting geckos that need to be fattened up.again if and when these geckos get back up to weight,i breed them and they lay good eggs i will call pat up with an apology and will post on here that his word is good in my book
 
pigslayer said:
Pat and myself have solved this issue,like i said in a previous post i went over board when i said they were scary skinny,i apologize to you pat,im very sorry
but im not use to getting geckos that need to be fattened up.again if and when these geckos get back up to weight,i breed them and they lay good eggs i will call pat up with an apology and will post on here that his word is good in my book
Click to expand...

But you jumped the gun and now there's a bad guy thread on here.....
 
Let me chime in for a quick second here....
Some do not ever think of the extent of a bad guy thread until they start it....
Ive done plenty of business with Pat and have NEVER had a problem. I was actually right next to Pat at the Myrtle beach reptile expo and all of his geckos and dragons looked very healthy.
We recently received some high end geckos from pat and perfect as can be, I patiently waited due to hot weather.
As breeders, we should know that a gecko after breeding would need some bulking up, some more than others. If the geckos are eating fine I would just make sure next time around I get pictures before hand. Not start a bad guy thread....
I am seeying more and more buyers remorse from other parties dealings now a days. Please think through the deals before hand, do the proper research and ask the right questions. You can always back out in a deal that is not solid. ASK QUESTIONS and get your pictures, if they are not answered or sent you can plainly say no.
 
Quite honestly I would never trade an animal and try to sell it in such a short period of time. Another thing That I am noticing is that claims of excess weight loss due to breeding is about ridiculous. I have bred leos for MANY years and have discovered that the only time they lose weight is when they are overbred. Another thing that I see from the picture is tail rippling which usually occurs from not enough watering. So maybe husbandry issues should be addressed next time before a trade is made. Maybe instead of you BULK breeding geckos to flood the market try concentrating on making sure the ones you have stay in tip top shape.
 
hoppingherps said:
Quite honestly I would never trade an animal and try to sell it in such a short period of time. Another thing That I am noticing is that claims of excess weight loss due to breeding is about ridiculous. I have bred leos for MANY years and have discovered that the only time they lose weight is when they are overbred. Another thing that I see from the picture is tail rippling which usually occurs from not enough watering. So maybe husbandry issues should be addressed next time before a trade is made. Maybe instead of you BULK breeding geckos to flood the market try concentrating on making sure the ones you have stay in tip top shape.
Click to expand...

If you have bred for many years you would know that fat is stored in the tail not water, maybe your thinking of camels....lol Dude those animals are not overbred, and some of the biggest names in the biz came here ad commented on it. I think I trust their opinions over yours, whom i have no clue whom you are. Sorry dont mean to be snippy but your the only one here whom seems to love to take pop shots, but doesnt know what they are saying.
 
I can also assure you we are far from flooding the market with leos. Just because we want to bulk up some production doesnt mean we are going to flood the market. Are geckos are in tip top shape. considering I have never met you, or you have most likley never seen my stock in person, I think you are out of line saying my husbandry needs work. Just because one breeder leo needs a bit more time to get to breeding size again, does not mean I do not take care of my geckos. And eluding to the point that I do not take care of my leos based on one poor example means your assuming----we all know what that makes you look like------
 
hoppingherps said:
Quite honestly I would never trade an animal and try to sell it in such a short period of time. Another thing That I am noticing is that claims of excess weight loss due to breeding is about ridiculous. I have bred leos for MANY years and have discovered that the only time they lose weight is when they are overbred. Another thing that I see from the picture is tail rippling which usually occurs from not enough watering. So maybe husbandry issues should be addressed next time before a trade is made. Maybe instead of you BULK breeding geckos to flood the market try concentrating on making sure the ones you have stay in tip top shape.
Click to expand...

I have found that each gecko is different. Some of mine hardly lose 5-10 grams from breeding. I've had others lose 20+ grams. It just varies a lot. None of my geckos are overbred. One of my first year breeders lost quite a bit of weight. They always gain it back after they're done laying. You just need to provide them with well gutloaded feeders and vitamins.
 
Actually Leopard geckos store fat and water in the tail. Fat makes up the bulk but when properly hydrated the cells around the fat consist of mainly water. If it was only fat how with no water in it would any of the tissues survive.
 
Ifit's been resolved, shouldn't it be dropped now? There's not really any reason to keep picking is there? (I don't know this guy from Adam so don't decide I am close to him or something)-the OP has already admitted he was wrong. Don't you think it is fair to just let it go, now?
 
hoppingherps said:
Actually Leopard geckos store fat and water in the tail. Fat makes up the bulk but when properly hydrated the cells around the fat consist of mainly water. If it was only fat how with no water in it would any of the tissues survive.
Click to expand...

Lets please not make this a pissing match, we are working on a solution currently and this does not pertain to the issue at hand. Also if you would like to chat about the diameter and make up of a tail pm me. I see the pics on your site of the leos and a couple (including tokays) need some "water" as well. PM me if you would like to continue this discussion.
 
When someone comes on any forum to try and ruin another breeders reputation, it's hard to drop. What Jeremy did was as low as it gets. Posting here and on geckoforums. The funny thing is though, he's the one who nobody will want to deal with again for fear of getting thrown under the bus like he did to one of the most trusted and respected breeders in the biz. If it doesn't go perfectly in every way, will he post again? I wouldn't trust him with a ten foot pole. As for Pat....I would deal with you anytime. The way you dealt with his demands was commendable. Your an excellent breeder with healthy animals. The poster above commenting on your husbandry and the like.....hes clueless. I've seen your animals and your facility and your cleanliness and attention to detail are second to none.
 
Even the "perfect" business cannot always perform perfectly. For Pat, he showed good customer service in settling the issue at hand, which was that pigslayer was unsatisfied with what he recieved. How can you all get on here and put your two cents in on subect matter that is irrelevent and off topic? Really? Bringing up shipping issues concerning high temps, mass production of leos, or breeding weight issues was totally out of left field. IMHO, the entire point was that Pigslayer wasnt happy with what he got and jumped the gun. If you go to buy a car and you tell them you want a brand new lexus and they bring out a beat up used one, it still functions but its not what you wanted? Would you not be upset as well? But props to both parties for resolving.
 
Apparently jeremy does nto want a solution, but just wants to continue bashing me on other threads. I have offered way more then what was needed to be offered. Now jeremy is refusing to offer crickets to these animals, knowing darn well that is what they primarily ate. So why should I send more cricket eaters only for a issue to arise and get bashed again. The 24 hours is up jeremy Im done with this situation, you can not be pleased. Be warned before trying to work with jeremy.
 
' The funny thing is though, he's the one who nobody will want to deal with again for fear of getting thrown under the bus like he did to one of the most trusted and respected breeders in the biz. If it doesn't go perfectly in every way, will he post again? ''



If a prominent breeder such as pat is willing to send geckos with a lack of tail weight, then he deserves to be exposed for that. If pgslayer had not posted then more ppl could have gotten geckos and been dissatisfied. I think the exposure is good for pat and gave him a chance to redeem himself as a reputable businessman! Props to pig for exposing the issue!!
 
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