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    Google Adsense ad revenue for December, 2025 was just $30 over the cost of the lease for the server running this site. So, in effect, the money providing the incentive for me to continue running this site is coming SOLELY from the paid memberships and sponsorships here. Which honestly ain't much....

Bad Guy pat kline (Luxurious leopards)

showmeurleo said:
Even the "perfect" business cannot always perform perfectly. For Pat, he showed good customer service in settling the issue at hand, which was that pigslayer was unsatisfied with what he recieved. How can you all get on here and put your two cents in on subect matter that is irrelevent and off topic? Really? Bringing up shipping issues concerning high temps, mass production of leos, or breeding weight issues was totally out of left field. IMHO, the entire point was that Pigslayer wasnt happy with what he got and jumped the gun. If you go to buy a car and you tell them you want a brand new lexus and they bring out a beat up used one, it still functions but its not what you wanted? Would you not be upset as well? But props to both parties for resolving.
Click to expand...

I appreciate your post, and i wish we could have come to a solution, god knows I gave the extra effort here and tried to show we would do what it takes to make him happy. But I WILL NOT be thrown through the mudd in other places while trying to show generosity.
 
showmeurleo said:
'


If a prominent breeder such as pat is willing to send geckos with a lack of tail weight, then he deserves to be exposed for that. If pgslayer had not posted then more ppl could have gotten geckos and been dissatisfied. I think the exposure is good for pat and gave him a chance to redeem himself as a reputable businessman! Props to pig for exposing the issue!!
Click to expand...

Let me get this straight....ONE guy complains about pat publicly in 11 years of business and now he's being "exposed" for skinny geckos???? What a joke.

Your praising pig for trying to hurt pats reputation, when it should have been handled privately. Thank you for your input....another person I wont deal with and will warn other breeders about.
 
showmeurleo said:
Even the "perfect" business cannot always perform perfectly. For Pat, he showed good customer service in settling the issue at hand, which was that pigslayer was unsatisfied with what he recieved. How can you all get on here and put your two cents in on subect matter that is irrelevent and off topic? Really? Bringing up shipping issues concerning high temps, mass production of leos, or breeding weight issues was totally out of left field. IMHO, the entire point was that Pigslayer wasnt happy with what he got and jumped the gun. If you go to buy a car and you tell them you want a brand new lexus and they bring out a beat up used one, it still functions but its not what you wanted? Would you not be upset as well? But props to both parties for resolving.
Click to expand...

You or anyone can pm me if you have a problem with what I have written. I stated my opinion just like you just did. I hit the points that stood out to me the most as you did.
 
And what I meant was shouldn't people stop with their nitpicking pat? I mean, I understand the tails and I had even gotten geckos that way. I've fed primarily crickets for years, and the buyer in this case KNEW that's what pat fed. He TOLD him that! He should have figured that the geckos probably would NOT EAT the mealworms that he intended to feed and so, should have passed up the trade.
 
And how was pat to know that the geckos weren't what jeremy wanted. Jeremy didn't make a 2nd request for pics, so I imagine that Pat figured that he was/would be ok with them. I would put this all on JEREMY.
He didn't ask a 2nd time for pics, and let the pic issue drop

He knew Pat only feeds crickets and supers due to an allergy. He still chose to go ahead with the trade. Is he still refusing to feed crickets?
The geckos in those pics, again, are absolutely gorgeous.
And yet, Pat still tried to make right with him? Offering still to send, essentially THREE free geckos?

I'd do business with pat, but I have to say I'd never do business with Jeremy.
 
Just thought I'd throw in my experience with Pat. I used to breed leos, & I spent thousands every season on them to beef my stock. Well, I decided to purchase some geckos from him & everything went smoothly. Later, we decided to do a trade, I sent him some Ember hets, & he sent me some snow/SSs. A few weeks go by, & I get an email from Pat accusing me of sending him a gecko with crypto! I was totally insulted, given the fact that the animals I sent him were in perfect condition with big fat healthy tails. He accused me of sending him crypto, & told me he was going to euthanize one if not all of them...it made me so sad, I decided to get out of leos completely. Even though I had never had any issues in my entire collection of over 300 leos, other than stuck eyelid shed, and growth problems with Mack super snows (which I believe is a genetic issue). Later, Pat admitted to me that he had already had geckos in his collection that he had to euthanize because of crypto?!? So in the end, he tried to get me to send him more geckos, which I wasn't willing to do, given the fact that he had supposedly euthanized the last ones I sent him. I wouldn't buy anything from him, nor would I send him any living creatures. Any way, that was my last experience with him. I'm sure due to the law of averages, he has alot of happy customers, but I was DEFINATELY not one of them.
 
dinodaddy - since you chose to involve yourself in this, you are going to have to deal with what comes next. I strongly suggest that you gather together these emails, including headers, and post them in this thread. Your accusations are not going to be taken well without some sort of proof. Proof is optional per the rules, but, you just opened a whole new can of worms and unless you can back up your claims, your reputation may suffer.

Just a word of friendly advice.
 
dinodaddy said:
Just thought I'd throw in my experience with Pat. I used to breed leos, & I spent thousands every season on them to beef my stock. Well, I decided to purchase some geckos from him & everything went smoothly. Later, we decided to do a trade, I sent him some Ember hets, & he sent me some snow/SSs. A few weeks go by, & I get an email from Pat accusing me of sending him a gecko with crypto! I was totally insulted, given the fact that the animals I sent him were in perfect condition with big fat healthy tails. He accused me of sending him crypto, & told me he was going to euthanize one if not all of them...it made me so sad, I decided to get out of leos completely. Even though I had never had any issues in my entire collection of over 300 leos, other than stuck eyelid shed, and growth problems with Mack super snows (which I believe is a genetic issue). Later, Pat admitted to me that he had already had geckos in his collection that he had to euthanize because of crypto?!? So in the end, he tried to get me to send him more geckos, which I wasn't willing to do, given the fact that he had supposedly euthanized the last ones I sent him. I wouldn't buy anything from him, nor would I send him any living creatures. Any way, that was my last experience with him. I'm sure due to the law of averages, he has alot of happy customers, but I was DEFINATELY not one of them.
Click to expand...

We'll that certainly kicked this thread up a notch...

Brian, I really hope this is fully true and you're not taking a cheap shot at Pat.

Pat, I hope you will address this.

Jeremy, before you even get a chance to think about it, Brian's post bears no relevance to yours, so do not come back with any "I TOLD YOU SO!"
 
showmeurleo said:
Even the "perfect" business cannot always perform perfectly. For Pat, he showed good customer service in settling the issue at hand, which was that pigslayer was unsatisfied with what he recieved. How can you all get on here and put your two cents in on subect matter that is irrelevent and off topic? Really? Bringing up shipping issues concerning high temps, mass production of leos, or breeding weight issues was totally out of left field. IMHO, the entire point was that Pigslayer wasnt happy with what he got and jumped the gun. If you go to buy a car and you tell them you want a brand new lexus and they bring out a beat up used one, it still functions but its not what you wanted? Would you not be upset as well? But props to both parties for resolving.
Click to expand...

showmeurleo said:
'

If a prominent breeder such as pat is willing to send geckos with a lack of tail weight, then he deserves to be exposed for that. If pgslayer had not posted then more ppl could have gotten geckos and been dissatisfied. I think the exposure is good for pat and gave him a chance to redeem himself as a reputable businessman! Props to pig for exposing the issue!!
Click to expand...

Ms. Gambrel, are you related to Jeremy? I'm a little (okay, a LOT) confused :shrug01:
 
Nope, don't even try because it won't work. I may or may not change my mind based upon what we learn from here on, but until there is proof, my opinion stays the same.

Either way, jeremy, in your trade, he was right, you were wrong.
And to the other person with a problem.....Proof please.
 
I've spent enough of my precious time on earth dealing with this BS, so you can either take it or leave it. I refuse to waste any more time on a bad deal from years ago...& I don't really care what people think, actions speak louder than words...
 
If there's no proof, or you're not willing to post proof people here'll probably just say you are trying to cause problems. Why bring it up at all unless you were going to post proof so others wouldn't get scammed?
 
We haven't seen the actions that you are trying to say "speak louder than words" Right now the actions show a pretty stand up guy.
 
dinodaddy said:
I've spent enough of my precious time on earth dealing with this BS, so you can either take it or leave it. I refuse to waste any more time on a bad deal from years ago...& I don't really care what people think, actions speak louder than words...
Click to expand...

For one, you made it sound as if this deal was recent. You never once said in you initial post that it was from "years ago."

Unfortunately, I ain't buying it, and I am pretty sure most others are not going to buy it either. The immediate refusal to elaborate and "I don't care what people think" is a major turn off when it comes to getting folks to believe what you are saying. Sorry.
 
dinodaddy said:
I've spent enough of my precious time on earth dealing with this BS, so you can either take it or leave it. I refuse to waste any more time on a bad deal from years ago...& I don't really care what people think, actions speak louder than words...
Click to expand...

This is obviously not true. If you refuse to waste any more time, you would not have posted. You DO care what people think since, again, you posted.

The only true thing in your entire post is "Actions speak louder than words". Your own words here are useless without action. Personally, I think something may have happened, but I would be willing to bet that you did not tell the entire story. Obviously.
 
showmeurleo said:
' The funny thing is though, he's the one who nobody will want to deal with again for fear of getting thrown under the bus like he did to one of the most trusted and respected breeders in the biz. If it doesn't go perfectly in every way, will he post again? ''



If a prominent breeder such as pat is willing to send geckos with a lack of tail weight, then he deserves to be exposed for that. If pgslayer had not posted then more ppl could have gotten geckos and been dissatisfied. I think the exposure is good for pat and gave him a chance to redeem himself as a reputable businessman! Props to pig for exposing the issue!!
Click to expand...


Are you his wife? You have the same last name and location.
 
showmeurleo said:
' The funny thing is though, he's the one who nobody will want to deal with again for fear of getting thrown under the bus like he did to one of the most trusted and respected breeders in the biz. If it doesn't go perfectly in every way, will he post again? ''



If a prominent breeder such as pat is willing to send geckos with a lack of tail weight, then he deserves to be exposed for that. If pgslayer had not posted then more ppl could have gotten geckos and been dissatisfied. I think the exposure is good for pat and gave him a chance to redeem himself as a reputable businessman! Props to pig for exposing the issue!!
Click to expand...


Unfortunately, in this instance, your husband (pigslayer) came off as a difficult to please whiner who wanted something for nothing. Virtually everyone who knows geckos that posted agreed that the animals looked fine. The seller was bending over backwards to come up with a solution short of cutting your boy a check he did not deserve

You can try and spin this any way you like but the only one who came off looking less than reputable in this transaction was the OP
 
1st off, I'm not insinuating that Pat is a scammer! I was simply adding my own personal experience with him. Even if I had the time to post all our back & forth emails, that still wouldn't reflect all that was said over the phone--so it's essentially impossible to tell the whole story...why does the BOI so often seem like a witch hunt?!?

2nd off, those het radars look totally normal--the tails/bodies appear long & lanky & that's likely a result of the polygenic "giant" genes from the "Eclipse" influence. Pat has ALOT of geckos, so also by the law of averages, there is bound to be some miscommunication and/or unhappy customers...especially considering how little we know about the possible side effects of all these new complicated genetics...remember folks; this is all an emerging science!
 
I would like to announce I just got off the phone with jeremy and we have the ball rolling. I think we have both learn some lessons here, and we will both agree this thread went long enough. We both got a bit hot headed and it is time to burry the hatch. Jeremy will be receiving pic with the geckos on the scale tomorrow, of geckos he has suggested would make a good replacement. Whether or not we beleive these geckos to be thin or not, it is not us to judge. Jeremy is my customer in this case and he is not satified, so I will honor my agreement and go above and beyond to make him feel the trade is equal.

I feel I can not ignore the crypto thread posted here by Mr. Grussing. No i will not go into details for this is a different thread, and that was over 4 years ago. All I will say is Brian, if you feel the need to talk about our deal start a thread. I would love to show the acid fast test record from the vet on those animals. I tried to give you a professional courtesy, but obviously you did not beleive me. In fact Im leading a study on crypto at the moment at a AZA Zoo, if anyone would like to learn more pm me.

In conclusion, action do speak louder then words, and that will be proved to Jeremy. (and Mr. Grussing if he chooses)
 
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