Info Pat Kline - neutral review

[Akiranar]

Nope, you are!
All I did was to point out to another poster why I considered service was not fine and then the pair of you have blown it out of all proportion.
Not one single person has even remotely mentioned that incorrect or missing labelling was responsible for the death of the frog apart,again, from the pair of you.
You really should learn to quit while ahead.....

If I remember the original post correctly, the OP had more issue with the customer service when they informed the seller about the dead frog than anything else. And from what I'm seeing here. I can see why the OP had issue with the customer service. But that's just my view.

 

[ElevatedExotics]

I ordered 5 red eye tree frogs from pat early this summer. 3 2 arrived dead. 1 died with in 8 hours. The other 2 are still going strong 6 months later and he compensated me for the ones that arrived dead and worked out pick up at a hub. Pat always got back to mw on time and seems like a good guy. I'd do business with him again as of now for sure. That's just my experience.

 

[tlmoon]

WC animals are chancy at best... WC frogs have got to be very delicate. I am not at all surprised that one did not make it. A small, WC reed frog is not going to have much tolerance to poor conditions and sadly this one did not make it.

I see a few things on either side that could have been done more optimally, but honestly with shipping WC frogs there can be losses. I don't think Pat did anything "wrong"; more that these things happen no matter what sometimes.

OP, if you want better odds, look into the (many) sellers who sell CBB frogs. I have ordered CBB reed frogs in the past and all did quite well.

Just my opinion, but I think you are getting carried away with being "right". No, it's not easy to hear that you could have done something differently and an animal died. Should the seller have read between the lines regarding your plans? Maybe....should you have asked very clearly....maybe so...chalk it up to lesson learned.

 

[AllisonLeigh]

Regardless of who's fault the death of the frog was, is it really appropriate for a seller to confront a buyer for leaving a mediocre review? That seems rather bullying doesn't it? Reviews are based on the buyer's perception of the sale, not the seller's.

For example, I bought a box of raw cork for vivarium builds. I bought it despite a 1 star review, because the review said "I bought this and all I got was a box of dirty wood". To that buyer they got ripped off, meanwhile that was exactly what I was looking for so I ignored the rating and made the purchase.

If Pat doesn't want people to leave reviews from their perspective then he should require that his reviews be approved before hitting his site. I don't see why the buyer is being treated as if she said the death of the frog was his fault, her entire complaint was his treatment of her... which I can understand from what I've seen posted on this thread.

I've heard wonderful things about Pat Kline, so I can only assume previous experiences are affecting people's view on this post, but if Pat was a newb on the scene and he made statements about it not being a big deal if he labeled his packages or not... what would people say?

Again, I don't think either party did anything wrong per say, just seems unprofessional to get upset at a customer for leaving a review you don't like. Again, Pat's reputation precedes him (in a good way), but I don't think that should mean the OP gets treated any different for sharing her experience. IMO

 

[BlakeWilsonRetics]

REMINDER TO CUSTOMERS - Please remember to write the common name and scientific name on the outside of the box or on the inside flap of the box to ensure a smooth shipping process. US Fish and Wildlife requires this information

direct quote from reptiles express website, very first thing you see when you go there.

so just because "lots" of people do it does not make it right or acceptable does it? Now I have also been guilty in the past of not including the species name at times but NEVER have missed labelling as live animals.
so yes maybe nit picking but it is a valid point in my mind
that's all.......

lmao thats not true. only for shipping animals into Florida is that required

 

[kmrkvicka]

lmao thats not true. only for shipping animals into Florida is that required

Where did you find that information? The Lacey act requires all live animal shipments to be labeled with quantity, common and scientific name

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[BlakeWilsonRetics]

Where did you find that information? The Lacey act requires all live animal shipments to be labeled with quantity, common and scientific name

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sorry. nope. laws vary state to state. where did you find YOUR information?

 

[kmrkvicka]

sorry. nope. laws vary state to state. where did you find YOUR information?

Exerpts from:

(A) any fish or wildlife taken, possessed, transported, or sold in violation of any law or

(b) Marking offenses

It is unlawful for any person to import, export, or transport in interstate commerce any container or package containing any fish or wildlife unless the container or package has previously been plainly marked, labeled, or tagged in accordance with the regulations issued pursuant to paragraph (2) of section 3376(a) of this title

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[BlakeWilsonRetics]

please include paragraph (2) of section 3376(a) of this title

pleeease

 

[kmrkvicka]

please include paragraph (2) of section 3376(a) of this title

pleeease

Exerpts from:

United States Code Annotated Currentness. Title 16. Conservation. Chapter 53. Control of Illegally Taken Fish and Wildlife.

Citation: 16 USC 3371 - 3378

Citation: 95 Stat. 1073

Summary: The Lacey Act provides that it is unlawful for any person to import, export, transport, sell, receive, acquire, or purchase any fish or wildlife or plant taken, possessed, transported, or sold in violation of any law, treaty, or regulation of the United States or in violation of any Indian tribal law whether in interstate or foreign commerce.



(a) The term “fish or wildlife” means any wild animal, whether alive or dead, including without limitation any wild mammal, bird, reptile, amphibian, fish, mollusk, crustacean, arthropod, coelenterate, or other invertebrate, whether or not bred, hatched, or born in captivity, and includes any part, product, egg, or offspring thereof.

(b) The term “import” means to land on, bring into, or introduce into, any place subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, whether or not such landing, bringing, or introduction constitutes an importation within the meaning of the customs laws of the United States.



(1) Taken

The term “taken” means captured, killed, or collected and, with respect to a plant, also means harvested, cut, logged, or removed.

(2) Taking

The term “taking” means the act by which fish, wildlife, or plants are taken.



(k) The term “transport” means to move, convey, carry, or ship by any means, or to deliver or receive for the purpose of movement, conveyance, carriage, or shipment.

It is unlawful for any person--

(1) to import, export, transport, sell, receive, acquire, or purchase any fish or wildlife or plant taken, possessed, transported, or sold in violation of any law, treaty, or regulation of the United States or in violation of any Indian tribal law;

(2) to import, export, transport, sell, receive, acquire, or purchase in interstate or foreign commerce--



(A) any fish or wildlife taken, possessed, transported, or sold in violation of any law or regulation of any State or in violation of any foreign law;

(b) Marking offenses

It is unlawful for any person to import, export, or transport in interstate commerce any container or package containing any fish or wildlife unless the container or package has previously been plainly marked, labeled, or tagged in accordance with the regulations issued pursuant to paragraph (2) of section 3376(a) of this title.



Currently at Labor and Delivery, so this may have to do for the moment

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[BlakeWilsonRetics]

where does it say must provide common and scientific name on outside of the box? you are very bad at this

 

[Andy_G]

To be clear here, the frogs WERE unboxed immediately. They were not removed from their cups immediately, since the seller had said "no problem" when I inquired about shipping arrangements because of my work schedule. THAT is where the seller holds some responsible for what happened here. And frankly if I were to ask for a refund, or the seller were truly interested in good customer service, I think one should be offered due to the seller's mistake in not clarifying the situation
By saying "no problem" to BOTH hold for pickup (regardless of including delivery to another person in that inquiry, seller said "no problem" to BOTH), the seller did imply the frogs would be fine in their cups for additional time. In that respect i was not "at fault" or "wrong" because i was trusting the seller's word. But add indicated here by some replies, I guess seller's can't be trusted. Maybe some are just more interested in the sale than the animals well being.

The seller guarantees live arrival. The frogs arrived alive. You however kept them in the same deli cup for almost a whole work day without removing them or changing the paper towels from what I have read and one died as a result of this. That's your fault in regards to not knowing how to receive the frogs properly which is not his responsibility, as well as not following up for a tracking number to track the package properly. He contributed to the death only by failing to write "live animals" on the box and being unable to read your mind or forsee issues that couldn't have been forseen. Your review was fair and it is unprofessional and inappropriate for him to react to that in the fashion that he did. A less than perfect transaction, but deflecting your mistakes to the seller and painting all sellers with the same brush as quoted above is quite ridiculous. Thank you for sharing your experience, nonetheless.

 

[sorraia]

The seller guarantees live arrival. The frogs arrived alive. You however kept them in the same deli cup for almost a whole work day without removing them or changing the paper towels from what I have read and one died as a result of this. That's your fault in regards to not knowing how to receive the frogs properly which is not his responsibility, as well as not following up for a tracking number to track the package properly. He contributed to the death only by failing to write "live animals" on the box and being unable to read your mind or forsee issues that couldn't have been forseen. Your review was fair and it is unprofessional and inappropriate for him to react to that in the fashion that he did. A less than perfect transaction, but deflecting your mistakes to the seller and painting all sellers with the same brush as quoted above is quite ridiculous. Thank you for sharing your experience, nonetheless.

Painting all sellers with the same brush, and sarcasm on my part out of frustration toward some the replies I received. The seller shouldn't have to read my mind, but nor should I have to read his. This experience should serve as a learning experience for both parties, in my personal opinion. Learning experience for me, it was. I wish it had gone differently, but it didn't, and the past can't be changed. I wish other replies had the level view that yours did. Thank you.

 

[sorraia]

Regardless of who's fault the death of the frog was, is it really appropriate for a seller to confront a buyer for leaving a mediocre review? That seems rather bullying doesn't it? Reviews are based on the buyer's perception of the sale, not the seller's.

For example, I bought a box of raw cork for vivarium builds. I bought it despite a 1 star review, because the review said "I bought this and all I got was a box of dirty wood". To that buyer they got ripped off, meanwhile that was exactly what I was looking for so I ignored the rating and made the purchase.

If Pat doesn't want people to leave reviews from their perspective then he should require that his reviews be approved before hitting his site. I don't see why the buyer is being treated as if she said the death of the frog was his fault, her entire complaint was his treatment of her... which I can understand from what I've seen posted on this thread.

I've heard wonderful things about Pat Kline, so I can only assume previous experiences are affecting people's view on this post, but if Pat was a newb on the scene and he made statements about it not being a big deal if he labeled his packages or not... what would people say?

Again, I don't think either party did anything wrong per say, just seems unprofessional to get upset at a customer for leaving a review you don't like. Again, Pat's reputation precedes him (in a good way), but I don't think that should mean the OP gets treated any different for sharing her experience. IMO

This precisely, thank you for sharing your thoughts! This review was entirely meant to be a share of my experiences (which is what the BOI is for, some replies seem to indicate otherwise). I marked it as neutral because although I personally did not enjoy this experience, I do not think it makes him a "bad guy". Customer service is part of the buying experience, and that is what this review was supposed to cover (some replies have taken it off track). It is highly unlikely this will hurt his reputation at all. Perhaps the only thing it will do is make other newbies (such as myself - a newbie in terms of amphibians) reconsider, or at least warn them to ask more questions prior to ordering. If it saves another animal from the same fate, and another buyer from my experience, then its worth it in my opinion.

 

[Black Adder]

lmao thats not true. only for shipping animals into Florida is that required

So you are contesting that Reptile Express are posting false information on their website?
Interesting...
Of course this topic is pretty irrelevant to this thread but as you seem inclined to pursue this with intent.....

 

[kmrkvicka]

where does it say must provide common and scientific name on outside of the box? you are very bad at this

Being up all night on meds in Labor and Delivery may do that, but does not negate my correct statements

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[snared99]

Guys,
I do not think we need to debate the labeling of the box. As i already stated the box Nicole received is not our normal box, they normally read "Live Reptiles", and has been stated that we didn't wrong the scientific names, that is on me.

I take the death of the frog very seriously, and our customer service(hence why i refunded her). I honestly do not see what is gained here in the argument anymore. No one is "bullying" anyone, i have never called Nicole names or cursed her out. we are just going to see things differently on what killed the frog. But in the end she did wind up with a lot of VERY healthy frogs from us, and we will just go our separate ways from here

 

[AbsoluteApril]

To all - the general debate over proper box labeling rules really belongs in the discussion forums. Please continue the discussion and debate about general box labeling rules in the appropriate forum. Thank you

 

[Snake-Queen]

I take the death of the frog very seriously, and our customer service (hence why i refunded her). I honestly do not see what is gained here in the argument anymore. No one is "bullying" anyone, i have never called Nicole names or cursed her out. we are just going to see things differently on what killed the frog. But in the end she did wind up with a lot of VERY healthy frogs from us, and we will just go our separate ways from here

That was very generous of you.