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Bad Guy Pat Kline - snared99

Morticia, if you look at NVBearded's post, you can see that she has spoken to at least one other individual who has seen sick animals from snared99
 
AndieBones said:
Fatalis, you should realize that a customer should never take the loss. Imagine if you bought a dragon from me, and it arrived dead. Is it your responsibility to pay for shipping, no. That's pretty much what snared99 did to me.
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I honestly do not believe this in the case of purchasing animals. When you purchase an animal you should accept that you are taking a risk and know that 99% of the time the cost of shipping is on the buyer. I haven't lost money on receiving an animal via shipping yet, but eventually when that happens (sick animal arrival or DOA) I know I'm not going to expect the seller to refund the cost of shipping, it's just not fair especially if they are trying to make amends.

Also, why are you saying the dragon arrived dead? It obviously didn't.
 
Are you taking the animal in for a necropsy? I realize they can be pricey, but to hold the seller accountable you'll need definitive proof that the animal was sick prior to entering your care, as the seller has an email showing you were happy with it upon receipt (Regardless of what you saw after that email, having that in black and white will likely be proof enough for paypal that you received your purchase and therefore the payment should stay as is.)

Again, not picking a side... but if we play "What if" (Which is cruel to do to someone who just watched a pet die, so I do apologise, but from a business point of view...). What if the cage had insecticide left in it (not saying it did.... but what if) and the dragon had a reaction to the toxins. I know insecticides result in seizures in cats and dogs, no clue about reptiles though...

Since there isn't a clear and definitive cause of the dragon's demise, accepting a refund less shipping may be the best option in your case, without having to pay for a necropsy.
 
Fatalis, I did not say he arrived dead. I said the seller basically sold me a dead animal, because without vet care, he was a dead animal. And is. Was I supposed to open my new animal and immediately take him to a vet because of a life threatening illness? No. The seller never should have tried to sell him in the first place.
 
Andie,

Apologies, I realize I misread the following sentence as that your dragon arrived dead: "Imagine if you bought a dragon from me, and it arrived dead."

Eitherway, yes what has happened is unfortunate and no sellers should not ever ship potentially sick or sick animals. It is unfortunate that this dragon rapidly declined and died and you had to go through that, but right here and now the seller has offered you a full refund for the cost of the dragon. They have done the right thing, and I do believe in this case the right thing to do would be to accept that refund if you can't afford a necropsy to prove the dragon was sick prior to shipping. It seems like the seller was absolutely willing to help, but you reported the dragon as healthy upon arrival instead of sick as it seemed it was at the time of arrival. We are all not perfect, but I hardly see the seller being a bad guy and deliberately sent you a sick animal after his attempts thus far to make it right.
 
Andie, you've been offered a refund without proving the animal is dead. Pat may be a nice guy who takes your word for it, but I'd like to see pics of the animal's corpse, top and bottom, with clear identifying marks. Please don't say that you "threw it away" before your paypal claim is even closed. Even if that dragon is proven to be sick, and Pat is proven to be a "bad guy," I'll still never sell to you because you initiated a paypal claim without speaking to the seller, and bought an animal you couldn't afford to vet. If you can't afford to vet an animal, you can't afford that animal. It's about being responsible.
 
Also, you can't have it both ways. Only one of following two things that you have said can be true:

1) The animal was sick as soon as you got it. If this is true then you should have notified the seller immediately and taken the animal to the vet.
2) The animal suddenly became sick at 10pm, and you had no time to take it to the vet.

Which is it?

Personally, if the animal is in fact dead, I believe statement #1 is more likely, since animals don't generally act fine and then immediately tank and die. In which case, you failed to bring a sick animal to the vet. So it's death is partially on you. Irresponsible.

If you can show that the animal is in fact dead, then perhaps you deserve a refund.

Also, you contradict yourself again, saying both that you are so experienced with dragons that OF COURSE your husbandry was perfect, and also that you were way too inexperienced to tell if an animal is ill. You can't have it both ways.
 
AndieBones said:
Lucille, I couldn't go to a vet, it was around 10pm at night! And I can pm you the message if you'd like. I just don't want the breeder to be involved. If you want the message, please pm me.
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You said at the start that the beardie died at least a day after unboxing. Even if you couldn't bring it to a vet right away, it appears that there was enough time for you to take it to a vet, by your own admission.
 
I would like to point out that i did offer a refund without still seeing evidence of the bearded is in fact dead. I would also be more then willing to post tons of pics of the healthy dragons here at the facility, to calm any "contagious" talks.

Really dont know what else to do, you have now refused the refund and im trying like heck to work with you here, even though (in your words) he arrived and was beautiful
 
Andie, please post proof that the beardie is dead. I'm sure you thought it important enough to take a quick photo, sad as it may have been for you.
 
If the animal died a day after arrival, taking it to a vet would have been incredibly unlikely to help. I've taken many reptiles to vets before they were very ill and it is still hit or miss. If it's a bacterial infection and you're willing to give it meds while waiting on the culture to come back, odds are they can fix it, but it's viral I doubt they are going to be any help.
 
Having said that it's always important to report any issues as soon as they are noticed and a deceased animal virtually always requires a photo. Trouble is once you get past a few hours the seller cannot be sure what happened so it gets murky quick
 
AndieBones said:
Fatalis, I did not say he arrived dead. I said the seller basically sold me a dead animal, because without vet care, he was a dead animal. And is. Was I supposed to open my new animal and immediately take him to a vet because of a life threatening illness? No. The seller never should have tried to sell him in the first place.
Click to expand...

You are building a conclusion on speculation. You do know know at all that the animal was sent ill and in fact you reported in writing that it looked beautiful. Then you skillfully garnered comments from people who never actually saw the animal to try to force readers to a conclusion that the seller did something amiss when there is no evidence of that at all.


Again, you have presented no evidence that the animal was shipped sick. You have not provided a photo of the dead animal.
It could well have been a husbandry issue, something in your enclosure.

I am sorry you lost your dragon and it was a very pretty one. But I don't think you have made a case that it was the seller's fault and I think it was flat irresponsible to claim that the critter had an infectious disease when not only did no veterinary professional see it, but those who you claim came up with a diagnosis never saw it either.
 
Lucille said:
Name the breeder. And even a reputable breeder is not a vet, I do not see how he could diagnose a contagious disease without having seen the animal.




Andie, your two statements seem to be in direct conflict.
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The OP did state that the animal was "struggling to breath" before the quote you referenced.
 
And for what it's worth, nobody here would, or should, put up with anything but a smooth transaction for your money. Not in this day n age. If you screw up one out of a hundred times, own it. If you screw up ten out of a hundred times, you're dead to me.
 
The seller should be given proof the animal is dead. Pic's worth a thousand words.
 
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