Paw Of Justice

[David Boggs]

Hey gang. I just did a google search for my website and came across the Paw of Justice. They appear to be a watchdog group out to stop the feeder rodent business. They have pics of several facilities and business and even took my KS ad pics and added a description of how badly my rodents are kept. They never even contacted me for permission to use my pics or ask anything about my business. Kinda like an animal tabloid. LOL. Anyway, if you have the time go to their site and check it out. If you feel the need to blast em' via e mail while you are there,I would encourage you not to fight the urge. This should be a BIG can o' worms. David

 

[David Boggs]

Fast come back!

It seems Lydia-Peirce-Dougherty [email protected] is one of the higher officials of the Paw of Justice. She just responded to my e mail and stated she has "fair use" of any pics she wants to demonstrate the horrible conditions in which feeder rodents are kept. I tried to explain that freezing rodents was an industry standard and she said she is aware of the industry standards. "There are none". I suggest we inundate her with e mails until her computer crashes. LOL. David

 

[SPJ]

She can't just take your pics and use them. That is copyright infringement AND she is using the pics in a way that was NEVER granted permission for by you.
I would tell her to remove the pics immediately or be faced with a lawsuit for copyright violation.
Hell, you could even say her unauthorized use of the pics has damaged your business.

 

[SPJ]

http://pawofjustice.org/index.php?cat=11

Here is the link. What a load of crap. They are calling the screen tops of the cages dust? WTH. That is just from the angle of the pic.
These guys are full of BS propaganda from what I can see.
How can they tell some mice are injured or too hot as they show with the little arrows?

I would go after them if I were you. That website just ticks me off.

 

[Suncoast Herpetological]

Here is the address of the site under discussion. These people really do come off as pretty wacky.

http://pawofjustice.org/

 

[DThomas]

Here is the registration info for the domain...

Domain NameAWOFJUSTICE.ORG
Created On:22-Aug-2004 13:30:05 UTC
Last Updated On:22-Aug-2004 13:33:32 UTC
Expiration Date:22-Aug-2005 13:30:05 UTC
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Registrant Name:Andy Waltz
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Registrant Street1:1903 Greenup St.
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Registrant Email:[email protected]
Admin ID:000-AW21849
Admin Name:Andy Waltz
Admin Organization:T.E.R.D. Communications
Admin Street1:1903 Greenup St.
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Admin City:Covington
Admin State/Province:KY
Admin Postal Code:41011
Admin Country:US
Admin Phone:+1.8595810556
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Tech ID:000-AW21849
Tech Name:Andy Waltz
Tech Organization:T.E.R.D. Communications
Tech Street1:1903 Greenup St.
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Tech City:Covington
Tech State/Province:KY
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Name Server:NS1.DREAMHOST.COM
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Name Server:NS3.DREAMHOST.COM

 

[miamireps]

Lol, funniest website I have seen, Dust on the screen lids? lol
Injured, sick how in the world can they tell did they physically examine the animals???
Its funny how they put "their" perspective on the pics, how do they not know all those pinks arent for feeders and the mouse in there was only for a comparison shot or a simple make photo look good shot?
They are FEEDERS not pets, why doesnt she start a save the goldfish website?
Its funny how these non for profit organizations by law are allowed to keep 90% for executive fees which means only 10% actually does anything.
Look at PETA, have they donated large sums of money to cities in need of better housing for their dogs? or have they actually offered a neuter/spay program for dogs and cats free of charge?
i dont think so, alot of the orgs are just that, B.S., they collect money to make it as they pay themselves, they never actually do anything, very very few actually do anything....

So who is with me on the appaling conditions of flushing a gold fish down a toilet?!
Lets start a non profit org and collect 90%~!!
there has got to be gold fish lovers!

 

[SPJ]

Goldfish.
I bust my buddies stones all the time because he keeps fancy goldfish and I tell him they are nothing more than overpriced feeders that my Oscars would love to eat.

 

[David Boggs]

Greenpeace/PETA/Paw of Justice

Hey gang, I just got off the phone with Mrs. Pierce-Dougherty and explained that I did my homework before I started amassing colonies of mice. I checked university lab standards for population density, food quality, sanitation, and euthanisa of mice. I explained to her that the substrate is aspen pellets and not poop. I explained to her that the pic of two moms and a butt load of pinks was actually taken from the end of a polycarbonate 19x10x6 lab cage. I explained that I clean my cages every 5 days. And that the 3 generation pic was used to show different sizes of mice available in one pic. I asked her to reevaluate her organizations view of my business. She has agreed to change my business from a negative view to a more positive light. Mrs. Pierce-Dougherty is also the groups attorney. I though she was pleasent and agreeable so if you are one of the named rodent breeders, contact her and see what happens. If we all speak out at once, in an intelligent manner, they may decide to sight in on someone else and leave us alone. I would suggest caution when e mailing them. They are most likely a well organized group with substantial financial backing. Good Luck, David

 

[David Boggs]

Homework

Dennis, EXCELLENT work on tracking them down. I am impressed. Talk about TMI. LOL. Thanks, David

 

[David Boggs]

I am no longer on the POJ site!!!!!

They have removed my business name and pics from their site. Whoo Hoo! I guess some folks do listen to reason. Keep at it if you are listed there and maybe you will be successful too. Good luck, David

 

[HerpVenue]

i say contact dreamhost and get them to shut the site down for copyright violations. (stolen pics)

Server Used: [ whois.networksolutions.com ]

dreamhost.com = [ 66.33.206.47 ]
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[snakegetters]

Perhaps in order to keep these people happy, we should be feeding all of our snakes solely on lettuce.

I agree that keeping any animals including feeding mice under inhumane conditions is deplorable, but I don't think the folks on this site actually have a clue as to what constitutes humane housing.

 

[odatria]

Its funny how these non for profit organizations by law are allowed to keep 90% for executive fees which means only 10% actually does anything.
Look at PETA, have they donated large sums of money to cities in need of better housing for their dogs? or have they actually offered a neuter/spay program for dogs and cats free of charge?
i dont think so, alot of the orgs are just that, B.S., they collect money to make it as they pay themselves, they never actually do anything, very very few actually do anything....

There is actually a lawsuit pending to strip "non-profit" status for P.E.T.A. and it looks like there is a great possibility that P.E.T.A. will lose! The lawsuit contends that P.E.T.A. should lose non-profit status because they support terrorist organizations. This stems from the fact that P.E.T.A funds the "Earth Liberation Army" as well as many other organizations that have claimed responsibility in illegal activities such as burning homes and sport utility vehicles. The lawsuit also states that P.E.T.A. does not have to be found guilty of the crimes or even that they knew about the crimes. This is one lawsuit that they cannot buy their way out of. I will try to find the info in the next day or so. Nothing would make me happier than to see them lose tax exemption.

 

[Bighaze]

Anyone see the Penn&Tiller show"bullsh!t".

They did a show and showed PETA for what they are. I too Hope they lose their not for porfit(yea right) standings.If any of us did or were connected to 1/2 the stuff they are, we'd be under the jail!

Now don't get me wrong, I think ALL ainmals need to be taken care of the right way. The way I look at my rats is the better care I give them the better feeders they will be for the reptiles, and I'd like to think most others feel the same way.

Anyway I saw someone had said PETA and I had just watched that show. If you have show time you should check it out They cover a lot of good topics.

 

[Nirvana]

Reptile Hobbyists for Humane Animal Treatment

Are there any sort of "sensible" animal rights groups out there? As in, people who keep and love animals, and want to see them live healthy, happy lives, but at the same time aren't . . . Nuts? I made the mistake once of looking at PETA's website and found that, as somone mentioned earlier (in jest, I believe) that they have a campaign (aimed at young children, like much of their propaganda) to stop people from buying and owning pet goldfish. Yeah, goldfish.

The art goldfish breeding has been around for MILLENNIA! The goldfish currently being kept and bred could not survive in the wild!

. . . Clearly PETA (and, it seems, many other animal rights groups) is backed by the most radical of radicals and is one of the most virulent terrorist groups active in the US today. (Just look at their "Your Mommy Kills Bunnies" campaign, aimed at young kids whose mothers wear fur.) However, it's also unquestionable that many people DO keep animals in neglectful, even abusive conditions -- some pet stores, many large corporate farms, etc. -- even many uninformed or just plain lazy individuals. It's also clear that large organizations such as PETA have much more clout in getting laws made and enforced than individuals do. So are there any "good" animal rights groups, advocating responsible animal ownership? Or are they all "ban meat and exotics" radicals?

 

[bigshow]

Simply put,....these people are IDIOTS!

 

[Otter_23]

You can rent the Penn and Teller at one of our movie places. I think there are around 4 different episodes.
Mark Westberg

 

[BigTattoo]

You may want to consider getting involved in this. These folks are well organized and there currently is legislation before the US Congress and Senate that will greatly impact rodent breeding, shipping, sales etc. PIJAC currently has this legislation on hold while the powers that be await public comment on rodents. PIJAC has been getting very little support in their effort to stop this legislation from being enacted. They need public comment and lots of it. Without your support this legislation may pass and you may just find yourselves having to feed lettuce as rodents won't be available to feed.

They even show Bob Applegates facility, and if you check his website he has his facility and it says exactly what PAWS says it does. Once a month cleaning??? WTF!!! Do you have any idea how much waste 5 adult rats would generate in one month? 720 mice 80 rats, this is just the adult count not pinkies, fuzzies and hoppers, and he only cleans this once a fricking month. Not being holier than thou but in my shop we clean our rodent cages daily, even with that mice have an odor all their own when clean that just smells. I agree with Bob that I don't like mice, despicable little creatures meant for snake and lizard food, but I even feel that his conditions are inhumane. The trailer is tilted back and to the right (leaks run to the open area)??? Some of the other rodent breeders are even worse. 21-28 days of food thrown on top of wire lath??? You ever felt wire lath? It's nothing but sharp edges and these rodents, it appears have to hang from it to feed, for a month. I bet that is great for their feet.

I've been to production facilities and it is deplorable the condition some of these animals are kept under. So many feeders per horse trough that they had to sleep on top of each other. Some even resorting to sleeping on the only water dish in a 200 G trough because there was no where else to sleep. Dead and drowned rodents in the only water bowl for over 500 rats. Bedding, good quality food and labor to care for these animals = overhead and the one thing these facilities want to minimize is overhead. Some pet shops are no better for the same reason. How many of you have seen near starved herps in your area petshops? Most will feed snakes no more than once a month, lizards once a week. Little wonder the baby corns die when they go home, and the little beardie you paid $80.00 for. If we don't police and regulate our own industry and that includes rodent facilities these orginizations will.

Paw of Justice showed their fairness in correcting their info on David Boggs and gave him a thumbs up. I agree that some of the things they try to point out in the photos is stretching it. But look a little closer at the amount of rodents/tray.

I'll get off my soapbox now and you can either blast me or the facilities that keep their animals so deplorably. Whine about the bleeding hearts or go to PIJAC and voice your opinion before the time period is up and the legislation gets passed and we have no rodents available to feed our snakes/lizards. These groups are very well organized and motivated. If we don't do the same we will go the way of the dinosaur.

BigT
Dave Johnston.

 

[TooManyBurmese]

I breed my own feeder rabbits. I spend the extra few dollars and buy Purina show food as opposed to the $6 crap. I also have an automatic watering system, and clean under my hutches every other day, I also sprinkle the area with lime. It costs me more money to keep and house my rabbits than it does my snakes!

I think those that breed their own feeders can agree with me, that the feeders usually get the same quality of treatment as the animals we're feeding. If you let urine and feces build up, you're only harming your reptiles, and I doubt any of us would ever do that!

What it comes down to as usual is we have 10000 GOOD breeders and 10 bad ones, and the good guys all get screwed.

I would like to commend Mr Boggs, and other good feeder breeders for his excellent housing methods. I also use aspen pellets and love them! I