Picolo related.

[Leighanne]

My poor baby! He is so skinny, I think they would call it emacipated. I am looking to ship him out this Tuesday to another Herper in Florida, overnite shipping so theres not as much stress. I have been trying everything with him. In the past three or four months he ate 4 or 5 waxworms on his own, 3 crickets on his own, and then I've been syringe feeding. The back of the inside of his mouth there is a black spot. I think hes to weak to use his jaw. He does still have spunk, sometimes he gets lose from me and I have to chase him around the bed. lol

I have been syringe feeding a Flukers Emergency Reptile Kit. A bug squished powder mixed with room temp water. I syringe feed him pear and apple baby food once and as of lately I've been mixing the powder with a Flukers Electrolyte Reptile Vitamin spray. Well last nite after a syringe feeding he opened his mouth up so I popped a little Mealworm in there. I didn't force anything down or anything like that. I stuck half in his mouth and he chewed it then swallowed. I gave him about four. Should I have done this? I have no clue what to be doing with a tempermental Lizard this weak and I'll admit it. I feel like my syringe feedings are keeping him from death but thats good. I don't want to give up hope on him.

Like I said this Tuesday no matter how much it costs hes going to Florida! I know for a fact he will like it much better there. Its taken me forever because believe it or not I had the HARDEST time finding freaking Styrofoam! Any advice you can give me until Tuesday is great! Thank You!

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

Have you considered taking a stool sample into a veterinarian for an examination to determine if it has parasites? Also, I would not recommend shipping a gecko in that condition at all. The stress and cold temperatures could kill it.

 

[www.leogeckos.com]

I have to agree with Marcia, I would not ship a gecko under those health coniditions. Do you have a picture?

 

[garweft]

I'm pretty sure that she is talking about an anole and not a leo.

 

[Cat_72]

It is an anole, but regardless, I would not ship it either.

If he willingly ate some mealworms, then you have made progress. If you are willing to possibly cause his death by shipping him in this condition, wouldn't it be more humane to just have him euthanized? It's not going to cost any more than shipping him, and be a lot less stressful of an end.

 

[Leighanne]

You know...

I am really disappointed in everybody that posted back to my thread with the word euthanized in it. I'm to tired to even go on a rant about it even though you guys really need one, obviously. cat I'm totally fine if he dies being shipped there because its not killing him, its not letting him rot, its me trying to to do something good for him. It will be overnite and I know my own critter. I don't believe he will die at all. Sorry I don't have a camera and even the Vet can't help now. Its like hes almost lost his will to eat. Florida is the answer here. I don't mean to sound rude because you guys are awesome most of the time. Heres how it is though. No matter what this is my house and my words and actions are Law and I will NEVER euthanize anything EVER. So please you guys don't even waste your finger energy typing that word in any of my threads again because its just not happening.

I can't believe so many people in the world today are without hope its really sad. All I wanted to know was am I doing the right thing syringe feeding him especially the baby food that one time and hand feeding him meal worms? I can see you guys aren't going to bother with any helpful or educational advice though. I know theres like some Science about it. I was in the Vet Forum this morning and was reading about somebody's skinny Chuckwalla and I believe it was AliceinWonderworld, that one chick that really did break it all down. Whatever, I am the only one here keeping the faith and I will continue and I will never euthanize any of my critters in my freezer. Ugh.

 

[Cat_72]

Kristin,

First of all, did I say ANYTHING about putting him in the freezer?? NO. Euthanasia is taking him to the vet, and putting him to sleep.

Secondly, you are not the only one disappointed by this thread. You have never shipped an animal, you have no idea how much stress it can put on even a healthy animal. And to say that you would never euthanize an animal is pure selfishness....you are thinking of YOUR feelings, not the animal. Euthanasia is humane....and it is not people being without hope that have said the "e" word, it is those who don't want to see an animal needlessly suffer.

Let me ask you this, if you say that you will never euthanize an animal, "ever".....do you have a cat or dog? Say that animal develops cancer. A horrific, slow, painful, cancer. He can't eat, and he whimpers when he walks. Would you euthanize him mercifully, or feel sorry for yourself and keep him alive, letting him suffer?

 

[Leighanne]

Uhm, can't that cancer be token out or something? Don't these critters deserve for us exasperate most options? I know thats insane. I have two Rats I love to death and if they develop tumors I have no choice but to put them down because I can't afford the $600.00 surgery and most people can't.

I just got back from trying to feed him again and he absolutely refused. I got two mealworms in his mouth and no not at the same time and he chewed them up and then shook his head and flung them out of his mouth. I was only able to get the syringe in his mouth once and then he absolutely refused me entry. You know that whole post wasn't all for you and I am sorry if I offended you Cat. I figured you would understand what I am talking about. Everywhere I go theres madness! On here, another Herper I talked to on the phone said to take my meat clever and chop his head off and I am just SO proud to say that my life partner votes for him to be feed to his Tarantulas. You know I can't have him euthanized by the Vet. I don't have a car and it would take a lot of hassle and time to get him there. By then he really would be dead the bad way. You are also very right Cat I AM being selfish. I gave Jeff the nod to feed her off before because I couldn't stand to see her suffer anymore and he put her in the Chileans tank, they had a close call and she pooped herself, then I saved her and the whole time I balled and even hours later I was still balling. I can't do this again. I have put two different beautiful flowers in her tank, rose petals, syringe feeding, Pedialyte, everything. This whole situation REALLY HURTS!!!

I also would like some freaking answers from you great Herpers. Some explanations would help me out alot. Why did she eat the mealworms last nite and not tonite? Its against all living creatures internal programming to self destroy so WHY!!?? Then can somebody please explain why we kill all these animals mercifully but thats not ok for Humans? I am a cashier and used to work with my Mother at Nursing Homes. There are to many old rotting corpses out there that can't do anything for themselves and they are slowly deterating and SUFFERING but no matter how much a human is suffering or in pain we are NEVER allowed to be put down, we are doomed to rot in wheel chairs with nobody coming to see us, shitting ourselves and thats ok. Ggrrrrrrr, this world makes NO sense and of course I'm upset about this whole ordeal. You don't even think the beautiful Florida sunshine could bring him back? One more Cat, not to sound snotty because I do like you but when will it be ok for me to ship. I've never done it so that means I never can because I never have?? That doesn't make much sense. I read all about it and had a good Herper explain it and it doesn't sound like rocket science. I was going to send him to Dan Lubinsky, which is an excellent Leopard Gecko breeder here. So I should still euthanize him?? Which way do you guys prefer? Chopping his head off or feeding him to the Blue Cobalt??

 

[Cat_72]

Uhm, can't that cancer be token out or something? Don't these critters deserve for us exasperate most options? I know thats insane. I have two Rats I love to death and if they develop tumors I have no choice but to put them down because I can't afford the $600.00 surgery and most people can't.

I just got back from trying to feed him again and he absolutely refused. I got two mealworms in his mouth and no not at the same time and he chewed them up and then shook his head and flung them out of his mouth. I was only able to get the syringe in his mouth once and then he absolutely refused me entry. You know that whole post wasn't all for you and I am sorry if I offended you Cat. I figured you would understand what I am talking about. Everywhere I go theres madness! On here, another Herper I talked to on the phone said to take my meat clever and chop his head off and I am just SO proud to say that my life partner votes for him to be feed to his Tarantulas. You know I can't have him euthanized by the Vet. I don't have a car and it would take a lot of hassle and time to get him there. By then he really would be dead the bad way. You are also very right Cat I AM being selfish. I gave Jeff the nod to feed her off before because I couldn't stand to see her suffer anymore and he put her in the Chileans tank, they had a close call and she pooped herself, then I saved her and the whole time I balled and even hours later I was still balling. I can't do this again. I have put two different beautiful flowers in her tank, rose petals, syringe feeding, Pedialyte, everything. This whole situation REALLY HURTS!!!

I also would like some freaking answers from you great Herpers. Some explanations would help me out alot. Why did she eat the mealworms last nite and not tonite? Its against all living creatures internal programming to self destroy so WHY!!?? Then can somebody please explain why we kill all these animals mercifully but thats not ok for Humans? I am a cashier and used to work with my Mother at Nursing Homes. There are to many old rotting corpses out there that can't do anything for themselves and they are slowly deterating and SUFFERING but no matter how much a human is suffering or in pain we are NEVER allowed to be put down, we are doomed to rot in wheel chairs with nobody coming to see us, shitting ourselves and thats ok. Ggrrrrrrr, this world makes NO sense and of course I'm upset about this whole ordeal. You don't even think the beautiful Florida sunshine could bring him back? One more Cat, not to sound snotty because I do like you but when will it be ok for me to ship. I've never done it so that means I never can because I never have?? That doesn't make much sense. I read all about it and had a good Herper explain it and it doesn't sound like rocket science. I was going to send him to Dan Lubinsky, which is an excellent Leopard Gecko breeder here. So I should still euthanize him?? Which way do you guys prefer? Chopping his head off or feeding him to the Blue Cobalt??

Kristin, if it were as simple as "just taking the cancer out", do you think those of us who have lost loved ones, human and animal, would have done just that? As a human, I truly wish that I would be allowed to pass on with the same dignity and compassion as have beloved pets that are euthanized when their suffering is too great, but for whatever reason, we are not allowed to have that option. Sometimes, the greatest gift you can give to a pet is to be able to end their suffering humanely.

No one has all of the answers, and I don't think anyone here can tell you why your anole is not eating. If his husbandry is all as it should be, and he is being offered the correct foods, I have no explanation as to why. It is very possible that there is something much more deeply wrong with him than just not wanting to eat. Perhaps he has no appetite, perhaps there is something actually preventing him from eating. No one here can tell you.

As for what I said about you shipping him, I was not referring to your ability to ship, and I'm sure Dan could do a fine job of talking you through it...but that without ever having shipped reptiles, you do not understand the stress it puts animals through. It can be hard on even healthy animals. It could very well be a deadly amount of stress to an already weak animal, and it would be a much less humane death than just putting him to sleep.

Kristin, you KNOW I am a firm believer in doing everything I can to save any animal, but there comes a time when you have to consider their quality of life as opposed to when they have suffered long enough. I have taken in rescues that people said would not survive, and brought them back. But there is a limit. I have also euthanized rescues when I knew they were beyond what I, or anyone else, could do for them. I have cried for hours over doing so, but still know in my heart that it was the right thing. If you truly love your animals, you do not think of what hurts you, you think of what makes them NOT hurt.

 

[techgirl]

I have read this thread and I just can't believe what I read. You are willing to ship a sick, dying animal and kill him from the stress of shipping but you won't give him the dignity of a humane death? What's it going to cost you to ship? $50? For that, euthanasia can be done. Oh I'm sorry, that's right, YOU don't ever plan on doing that ever. Being a vet tech, that makes me sick. It is the one thing, that we can offer our pets/companions/best friends when their life no longer has the quality that they deserve for life. I have done it many times in my life with my own pets, from cats to geckos. I have done it when my beloved leo, Siachen, prolapsed and it would not take to medical intervention. I have done it when I came home to find my diabetic cat, Bashir, collapsed from a bleeding tumor on her spleen. Please don't even think that since I work for a vet that I get much in the savings department. If I'm lucky, it's at cost and sometimes that ain't much.
I can't understand that you even tried feeding him to a tarantula?!? That's humane?? I wouldn't even do that with my mice when they reached their end.
I have read that you have other pets. What's going to happen when they get sick? You going to ship back a ball python to it's country of origin?
I'm sorry I just had to say my piece on this. I normally don't participate in threads where I come off this harsh. But I felt strongly about this and couldn't just sit here and read it anymore.

 

[BalloonzForU]

Its against all living creatures internal programming to self destroy so WHY!!??

Actually he's failing to thrive, and sometimes this is giving up. Sounds like he's gotten to the point where there is no coming back and he's suffering because you refuse to give him a peaceful passing. It would never have gotten to this point had you taken him/her a vet to find out why when this all started. When was that? Over a month ago? Wow poor thing......

I don't have a car and it would take a lot of hassle and time to get him there. By then he really would be dead the bad way. You are also very right Cat I AM being selfish.

This statement right here is the type of things that are upsetting to us. When you have an animal in your care it's up to you to do what is right by him/her, even if it's a HASSLE.

Then after saying you would never put down an animal and then you say this? Which is it, you will or your won't? Why is it good enough for your rats but not for this poor little anole, who is suffering?

Uhm, can't that cancer be token out or something? Don't these critters deserve for us exasperate most options? I know thats insane. I have two Rats I love to death and if they develop tumors I have no choice but to put them down because I can't afford the $600.00 surgery and most people can't..

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

I'm totally fine if he dies being shipped there

You would rather subject this poor, unfortunate creature to the stress of shipping and allowing it to die in this manner rather than having a veterinarian humanely end it's suffering?

I don't have a car and it would take a lot of hassle and time to get him there.

What about the hassle, time, and expense of shipping it?

You are also very right Cat I AM being selfish.

Yes, you are.

 

[CurtisF]

I know exactly how you feel, as my first pet died the same way. Near the end, my mind was made up, and I was going to put him to sleep. Why? Because I didn't want him to suffer anymore. After weeks and weeks, he was only getting worse, and when he lost the will to even open his very own eyes, I thought in his own best interests, not mine. Some sick animals, no matter how much you love and care for them, will die no matter what you do. To ship this animal in this condition will only give it a quicker, more horrible death than is already inevitable from what you describe. Think in it's own best interests! Wake up! You care for it, I know you do, but caring for an animal sometimes requires to give up on an animal. Think about it.

 

[Leighanne]

It is done.

Piccolo has been in the freezer for an hour and he is at peace now. I am very sorry to everybody for this. This situation

was a lot different then me freezing Mice for Lickity so she eats the appropriate sized items and gains weight. This was the

first time I had to make the decision like this for a critter ever and it was hard on me and him and much turmoil. I am not

very Thankful for those of you who rubbed salt in my wounds however, that was not nice. I just didn't want to give up hope

on him. I have acquired some education since Jakers and being here and I know I'm not a Vet but I do not believe it was

parasites. For MANY months he ate and was an active fat happy little Anole. I never saw anything in his pooh and if it was

parasites I guess I figure he would of been skinnier way back when when we got him. He was able to gain weight fine. I have

a friend at work who is a Vet freak and just got done spending $600.00 on a surgery for her Rat. She used to keep Anoles,

four of them and had no luck either. One of them died from a tumor and the Vet could do nothing. I've always wondered about

that, animals that seem like they would be to small for surgeries and stuff and I guess they are. I think Piccolo may have had a tumor

or something like that. She, he just stopped eating and being happy one day a couple months ago. This was VERY hard being

the first time having to deal with this but from now on I promise myself I will try and call the shots a lot better for the

sake of my critters. Also, Ballonzforu No I didn't change my mind I would of always said to put the suffering puppy down if there

was nothing that could be done, so it wasn't me changing my mind, thats retarded. This was a case of me being selfish not

trying to be selfish. I can't believe everybody ragging on me and I get no credit for caring and trying EVERYTHING to save

her. I stayed up many late nights researching and thinking of this and that. I would also like to say that feeding her to the

Tarantula isn't really anything thats Nature. Do you guys seriously flinch at all that stuff? Scorpions eat Geckos in the

wild, Geckos eat Scorpions. I love my Tarantulas to and I am going to be considered Satan for feeding them mice, anoles,

birds, toads. The venom would of kicked in quick and left her painless it was the stalking that was torture for me and

her. An with the Vet thing there was no help for Piccolo and I believe it, next John Apples going to come cuss me out

because I would never take any of my bugs to the Vet. lol One more thing. Lickity, Rayne, HoneyPuff, Squee and Jakers they

WILL go to the Vet. Like I said theres no need to be insulting I do GREAT with all of my other babies. I do have to Thank

You guys for waking me up though, especially for Piccolo. I don't believe it was wrong to stick her in the freezer. I could

of waited the two weeks to get her to the Vet and she would of suffered, I could of feed her, but I ended it within an

hour. Piccolo is at peace now.

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

Leighanne, I know how hard this must have been for you to make this decision. It is truly commendable to try to save little creatures that are ailing. We all love our animals and want them to have a fighting chance for survival, and it isn't easy to come to the conclusion that it's time to throw in the towel. By not allowing Piccolo to suffer any longer is truly an act of unselfish love.

 

[Leighanne]

Thank you for that Marcia. I know we all here and being Herpers because of course we love these cute little critters. This was SO hard. A tip of advice for anybody with this decision to make in the future. Do NOT look into their cute beaty little eyes when they look up at you. I hated this! It felt like playing God when really I'd just like to go be with a bunch of little happy Anoles in a beautiful garden somewhere instead of this crap. Its so sad when life hands anything or anybody the short end of the stick. Like I said sorry for all of the arguing but Thank You for "waking" me up. This really was better for Piccolo. Somebody told me once when they go to funerals they don't really feel bad for the person dead they feel worse for the loved ones left behind to deal with the lose.