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PLEASE HELP ME

N

NEWReptiles

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this is my complete ad...> > >i sold the parents, but have 6 juvis for sale all 6 are in great shape, healthy, and parasite free.with the exception of two, they are kinda fussy eaters,and
have had only 2 meals, but are still very healthy.
the others have eaten 4-7 times...if you would like
pics,
email me, the guy was rude before they even got there and when they arrived he said "> > > > > > <[email protected]>
wrote:
Hi,
I recieved them today and all but one seem to be fine. He is not movin or breathing his tongue is not longer flickering
either.
i asked for proof, and he said he would take a pic, i said thats noy fair cuz they dont move alot when out of their encloure. i told him to send the snake back and even though there was no garauntee , i would reimburse the price minus shipping. he continued to be very rude and pushy, and because this was my 2nd transaction here on fauna, i just went ahead and sent him $23.(sold 6 viper boas for $160 ) price minus paypal fees and shipping. he sent 4 more emails in 3 hours threatining me and being rude, so i went to paypal and took my payment back. know he says 2 have died, and the only way he will send them back is if i pay shipping. i told him the only way i will give him a dime is if he sends them back for proof of there demise. i was 100% up front about the snakes and tried to refund with no proof. and he is sending about 5-8 emails a day being a dink to me. and will not send the dead back to me. i think he is trying to rip me off. please somebody that has dealt with this give me thier input.

                                      very confused and bad speller, Al
 
have hm take a picture of the snake....
upside down and straight.  (hard to do unless the snake is dead)

by the way...how long has it been since you shipped and they died...--Time frame needed--that way it can help determine one way or another if they died with his husbandry or what not.

have him post his story here.

also copy and paste the whole e-mail
 
no pictures sent... i was affraid it would be very easy to doctor pictures. ive had viper boas for 4 years and noyiced when they are brought out they stay put unless harassed. im goin to put his emails up in a min. they are hard to follow unless you read them from the bottom up.(he keeps sending without deleting the old ones. and i remind you, this guy was very rude from the time i sent them out.this is the last 1 he sent today..Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 16<img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':0'>2<img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':0'>9 -0700
       



Al,
You need to figure out a way for me to ship these snakes back to you
and you
need to pay for it. Thanks,
-Lee
 
this is my ad. he got them on last thurs. said 1 was doa, and then said 1 more died 2 days later.


Topic: 0.0.6viper boas 4 monthes old, $50 each + shippin or $200 all 6 shipped < Next Oldest | Next Newest >  


realvenum



Group: Members
Posts: 42
Joined: Sep. 2002
 Posted: Sep. 14 2002,19:53    

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
i sold the parents, but have 6 juvis for sale all 6 are in great shape, healthy, and parasite free. with the exception of two, they are kinda fussy eaters, and have had only 2 meals, but are still very healthy. the others have eaten 4-7 times...if you would like pics, email me. or if i could answer any questions call me at 9920)420-3733......thanks, al

--------------
Al GUetzkow
 
You sold them very cheap with a disclaimer. If you did not offer or imply a guarantee than he is out of luck. I always go out of my way to go beyond my guarantee but if someone treats me abusively through email I will stop trying at that moment. If they want to conduct themselves like a human being, great. If not, goodbye. Evan Stahl
 
>its hard to read, i copied and  pasted. read from bottom up

Ok now two of them have died in less than a day they were both the
fussy
eaters now they are both dead I can send you pictures if you want but
shipping is going to cost either 50/50 or all you I have done buiness
with
plenty and I have never had a problem with DOA like this before. I am
willing to work this out but you must comply and work with me not give
me
small answears and try to be with me e-mail for e-mail cause this is
not a
good situation at my end. I have been burned like this before. You seem
to
try not to be doing that but how it is right now you are ripping me off
big
time. Thanks and please understand where I am at right now you have my
money
I have nothing.
-Lee


>From: Al and Becky <[email protected]>
>To: Richard Camp <[email protected]>
>Subject: Re: viper boas
>Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 12:36:23 -0700 (PDT)
>
>now i just went and canceled my payment. until you
>send me proof of the dead snake, i will give you
>nothing. you have been very rude and pushy from the
>start. and i tried to work with you and sent you
>$23.00 without any proof of the snake being dead. so
>now if you want a penny from me, you will have to ship
>the dead snake to me at YOUR expense. thanks for
>sending me 25 + emails and wasting alot of my time, Al
>
>
>
>
>
>--- Richard Camp <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Hey well its your choice I can send this thing back
> > to you at your expense.
> > You need to credit my account 26.00 the e-mail I am
> > useing to contact you is
> > not my acount and you have not credited my account
> > yet I will go through
> > with the complaint then. Thanks,
> > -Lee
> >
> >
> > >From: Al and Becky <[email protected]>
> > >To: Richard Camp <[email protected]>
> > >Subject: Re: viper boas
> > >Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 05:24:25 -0700 (PDT)
> > >
> > >no, i sent you 23.00 yesterday. which is alot more
> > >than i felt comfortable with considering i have no
> > >proof of death. i sent it to the same email you
> > paid
> > >me with.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >--- Richard Camp <[email protected]>
> > wrote:
> > > > Please send the 26.00 payment to
> > > > [email protected] if you use a credit
> > > > card the total will be 29.00 please send ASAP.
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > -Lee
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >From: Al and Becky <[email protected]>
> > > > >To: Richard Camp <[email protected]>
> > > > >Subject: Re: viper boas
> > > > >Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 12<img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':0'>3:53 -0700 (PDT)
> > > > >
> > > > >the most i will refund is $26 so if you want i
> > will
> > > > >paypal you.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >--- Richard Camp <[email protected]>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > > Ok I can ship him back to you via any
> > shipper
> > > > and I
> > > > > > can also take pictures.
> > > > > > If I do ship him back to you I will expect
> > be
> > > > > > reinbursed on the shipping as
> > > > > > well. Thanks and let me know what you want
> > me to
> > > > do.
> > > > > > I can do whatever. I
> > > > > > think he must have got stressed over the
> > > > shipping or
> > > > > > being in a snake bag in
> > > > > > the heat could have cause a problem on such
> > an
> > > > > > unhelathy eater. Thanks and
> > > > > > take care let me know ASAP!!!,
> > > > > > -Lee
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >From: Al and Becky <[email protected]>
> > > > > > >To: Richard Camp
> > <[email protected]>
> > > > > > >Subject: Re: viper boas
> > > > > > >Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 11:20<img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':0'>9 -0700 (PDT)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >i will need proof that this animal is no
> > longer
> > > > > > with
> > > > > > >us.
 
im weary of problems because im just trying to get started. and im always very upfront and honest. thats why i said 2 were bad eaters in the ad, and thats why they were so cheao.
 
i even sent him $23 without any proof, untill he kept up being rude and tellin me he was gonna.."I will go through
> > > > with the complaint then. Thanks,
> > > > -Lee
> > > >'
 
oh yea, my ad is till up. if you want to read it word for word. and he says 2 died in 1 day, he sent an email that the 2nd died about 36 hrs afer he got them. and i just wanted to ad that i shipped at 6;15pm on wed and they got there around 10 on thurs mornin. from WI time to CA time. only in route for 14 hrs, and when they left they all looked A1.
 
I don't believe you are obligated to send anything since there was no guarantee. However if you feel that you should refund the value of the snake or snakes that died you can't really expect him to pay to ship them back to you at his expense which would be about as much as the value of one of the snakes.

Bobby Douglass
 
i thought it would only be around $4 to ship the dead back to me. they dont need to be sent next day any more.
 
You may be correct. I've never had the privelege of finding out. I think a picture would be good enough proof if you are generous enough to refund. But like I already stated, I don't think you're obligated to do so. Good luck.

Bobby Douglass
 
i just wanted to check if maybe im being to much of a dick, which could be the case after reading about 25 of his emails. if you guys were im my shoes, what would you think is fair? thank everyone for taking the time to help me, and hopefuly i need not ask more qeustions like this. THE NEW GUY, AL
 
Since he admitted that the two that died were the two problem feeders, I would NOT refund based on the account of the events you have presented. Invite him to respond here to tell his side and we can make a more informed decision.

Bobby Douglass
 
Hi all,
This is Lee I just wanted to let you all know even AL in know way was I trying to be rude at all it just is a upsetting thing to receive snakes that are suppose to be perfectly fine and I did not I mean what more do you want out of a guarantee he said they were all doing fine I will post pictures of the two dead snakes here if everyone wants to see. I was not going to post anything bad about Al at all but if you all go look at his ad he is implying that the snakes are all fine and perfectly healthy just two of them are fussy eaters but they are still fine. I took this guys word and it happen to not be what I thought it was. Non the less I have gave all information and statements to my credit card company and they are refunding the amount of the two snakes that were DOA. Al if you are going to sell sick snakes say that two may possiably die on arrival next time. I have bought from many people who dont even ask for proof of death. I do require proof of death when mine die non have and when they do I supply the shipping. You also sent 23.00 to some other account I never recieved it in my paypal. Besides I paid you 200.00 -40 for shipping thats 26.00 a snake and two were DOA thats 52.00 I dont mean to sound rude to you but this is how people burn others in the reptile world you send people dead snakes and this just happens to be a case where you shoul have stated I do not guarantee them what so ever and the snakes are not doing well at all. Just to let you all know the other 4 are ok and doing well but all he had to tell me was: Lee I dont feel right sending them just yet and I dont think they will make shipping I would have understood. Well I hope this helps everyone understand a little more and if anyone has questions feel free to ask! Thanks,
-Lee
I mean you have to think how would you feel in my situation?
Its not nice to see dead snakes!
 
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">it just is a upsetting thing to receive snakes that are suppose to be perfectly fine and I did not I mean what more do you want out of a guarantee he said they were all doing fine </td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

I also saw the ad for the viper boas and e-mailed asking a few questions... Al was very kind in answering them after I said up front I wouldn't be a 100%  guaranteed customer, even if I liked the answers (Which incidentally, I did).

He was completely honest with me about the number of times they had fed, which ones had fed and the date they dropped on. He made it quite clear to me that the two problem feeders were just that and had always been that. He was also quite clear that there would be no guarantee  if I was intested in purchase (I was interested at the $200 advertised price) which did not come as a surprise due to the lower than wholesale prices and him being totally up front about the feeding regime. He even sent me a picture with each animal labeled so I could identify which ate how many times...

I unfortunatly was unable to shift funds around to obtain them however... If he was so up front and honest with me as a potential customer... Why would he decceive  you about the two animals in question? Even the picture he sent me clearly showed two that were very obviously much smaller... I can't imagine that you would have been any less specific in your questions as a more serious inquiry... and I doubt he would alter his statements or attitude between potential customers...

The point when buying animals at wholesale (this is way WAY below even most wholesalers prices on these guys) prices is that you KNOW in advance that there is a reason they are costing so little... There is no guarantee but you are trusting in your abilities to ensure everything is healthy, eat a few losses if it comes to that and overall end up ahead because you paid so little to start.

My personal experience, while I didn't obtain these animals (a fact entirely unrelated to the answers I got and the snakes in question, I just didn't have the cash due to a few other purchases), was enormously positive with Al. He was professional and went way above and beyond  what most dealers would do for a professed minimal interest.

There was no guarantee on these animals... You ended up paying $40 each even after the two losses... They retail for around $60-70  so you're still saving  and it was made clear up front that there may be some potential problems, especially with the two that didn't make it.  Anyone with experience with these animals knows that they have the potential to be picky feeders and are fairly sensitive to just about everything... Not impossible by any means but they aren't corn snakes and you should know that before you even consider purchase.

I think Al's service in refunding any portion of your money is way above and beyond what is required of him ethically and that if you're that unhappy with what must be called your own mistake in making the purchase if you feel a mistake was made anywhere, you should simply not do buisness with him in the future... You can't possibly call his honesty into question, his ethics or even the quality of the animals he sent... You get what you pay for every  time and it's your descision to go with a slight risk for less cash or to go for the sure thing with guarantees but blow your bank account... or anything in between.

I know I for one would have no problem sending him money and I don't doubt for a second that he would send me exactly what I purchased and agreed to.

Normally one would tend to say that you didn't pay for dead snakes... But in this case the issue was made perfectly clear up front and it was your descision to continue with the deal. If you hadn't bought them, I'd have probably ended up with them sometime next week if nobody else had expressed an interest first and I'd have been perfectly content to have them since the other four look nice and healthy and fat (for juveniles anyway, they bulk up a lot in that second year).

Al, don't let it get to you... It happens, but you did exactly what you were supposed to in this deal and nobody looking at it rationally would blame you for anything. Keep that honesty and you'll  end up going far, even if you do take a few hits getting there. It will serve you well in the future.
 
You're of to a very good start my friend.  You were very honest in the ad and saying they're doing fine doesn't mean the same thing as saying they'll live for ten years and breed with no troubles.  You were too nice in sending the refund you did and you were justified in taking it back.

5 years ago my fine print was 30 words long.  It's now a whole page.  Internet sales are tricky however, I feel that I offer living snakes to my door or a meeting spot.  If somebody sends a friend to pick the snake up I don't tell the people it will get to your house alive as I don't know what the friend is going to do.  When shipping, in my eyes the shipper becomes that friend.  If you choose not to pick the snakes up I can't say what FedEx will do.  I've yet to loose a snake in shipping so I've yet to have this worry but you're on the right track.

Good luck,
Adam Block
 
thank you all very much for your help, and Lee, you must also see my point in not receiving the dead snakes for proof. and even in my ad i did state the health of the 2 and also sold them for the very low price. this is my 2nd time shipping and selling on the internet for that matter. i have received 25 snakes + from many people and have never had to deal with doa. thats why i brought it here, so people with experience could help. PLEASE IN NO WAY FEEL AS IF YOU WERE RIPPED OFF. and since you chose to deal with it in the way you did (telling your credit card company you were swindled ) instead of returning the dead to me, i will just have to see whats next. and the whole time i left the window open for refund, even though i feel i was/am not in the wrong. all i asked was that you spend $4-$5 dollars to get the dead back to me. and Lee, in the future i would ask that you be alittle more understanding in an event like this, as you did buy sakes for an incredible price, and it was noted about there poor feeding. i also hope neither one of us have to deal with something like this in the future. thanks, al
 
If it helps and I dont mean to sound like a jerk, but most people only garenotee(sp) their animals for 24 hours after shipment.  Some people less than that.  And unless you are a crappy shipper there in NOT likely any way those snakes died that quickly.  I think he is just trying to rip you off.  Have him take a pic of the snake(s) upside down and in a straight line like someone earlier suggested.

Keep us informed please
 
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