Please share Candoia breeding experiences

[Helenthereef]

I'm looking for experiences on how people have kept various neonate Candoia species, and their survival rate.

Here's my sad story to start:

I've had three litters of C.b.bibroni (Fiji Boa) pass through my hands - one from a wild caught gravid female born in the place I got my first three snakes, one born in my own tank, and one born to some friends' captive snakes.

I fed mine after a month (f/t gecko tails to start, and later on small geckos), my friends started feeding (live geckos) straight away.

In every case all ate well and seemed healthy for the first 5 - 6 months and then the majority of the babies died after refusing food, regurgitating, and eventually convulsing. In fact I only know of one survivor from the litter of 13 that my own snake had.

My female is gravid again and will probably give birth in May. Obviously I'd like the babies to survive. I'm looking for any tips on conditions / feeding / survival rate etc that you may be able to give me from your own experience.

I'm thinking maybe humidity could be a factor - they were kept in normal Fiji atmospheric conditions, in open-air tubs, with newspaper and dried fern as substrate, and bathing-size water bowls. I'm wondering if they need to be wetter? Maybe in saturated fern substrate? The time of year they are born here is the wet season: perhaps they naturally spend the first few months of their lives curled up in crevices while it rains on them.

Looking for clues..........

 

[Helenthereef]

A few photos from when they were feeding OK - about 2 months old. (Except for the one on the scales, which was the tiniest runt when new born - 7 grams!)

 

[Metachrosis]

They are very cool critters,what a privilege to work with them where you do

 

[Helenthereef]

They are very cool critters,what a privilege to work with them where you do

Of course to the locals it's just "those snakes" but to me they are very special. And VERY even tempered - the large female I have at present was "Wild Caught" by a 9 year old boy just walking into the bush and picking her up.....

 

[Monkey Tails Canada]

Love this species!!! Thanks for sharing some pics.

 

[hadenglock]

I'm looking for experiences on how people have kept various neonate Candoia species, and their survival rate.

Here's my sad story to start:

I've had three litters of C.b.bibroni (Fiji Boa) pass through my hands - one from a wild caught gravid female born in the place I got my first three snakes, one born in my own tank, and one born to some friends' captive snakes.

I fed mine after a month (f/t gecko tails to start, and later on small geckos), my friends started feeding (live geckos) straight away.

In every case all ate well and seemed healthy for the first 5 - 6 months and then the majority of the babies died after refusing food, regurgitating, and eventually convulsing. In fact I only know of one survivor from the litter of 13 that my own snake had.

My female is gravid again and will probably give birth in May. Obviously I'd like the babies to survive. I'm looking for any tips on conditions / feeding / survival rate etc that you may be able to give me from your own experience.

I'm thinking maybe humidity could be a factor - they were kept in normal Fiji atmospheric conditions, in open-air tubs, with newspaper and dried fern as substrate, and bathing-size water bowls. I'm wondering if they need to be wetter? Maybe in saturated fern substrate? The time of year they are born here is the wet season: perhaps they naturally spend the first few months of their lives curled up in crevices while it rains on them.

Looking for clues..........

In a case like this a trip to the vet should always be considered
1. your dealing with WC animals, therefore parasites, viruses, etc.... while not physically revealing themselves may have been a benefactor to their deaths.
2. There are more and more viruses being discovered every year and this is definitely a hot topic among leading exotic vets in the country so i am pleading do not rule this out without proper testing from a qualified vet.
3. Im assuming the geckos your feeding are wc as well, this is another obvious risk of parasite infection to your animals, while it is necessary it is still however a risk when keeping these animals.
4. I know it it possible to raise them up to point where they are able to eat rodents so its best to work on getting them towards this goal.
5. As far as humidity i think people make this too complicated. Mist them daily ensuring proper hydration, w/e that may be as it depends upon the individual animal, not the collective species (though obviously there is a guideline).
6. Follow a strict protocol on tub soakings to ensure proper hydration if hydration is truly a concern.
7. I may sound like broken record, but again, take them to a vet....

 

[Helenthereef]

You're completely right, and if there was a vet who knew anything about reptiles in the country I'd certainly do it. Unfortunately Fijian vets concentrate on cows and pigs, and the SPCA runs without a vet for much of the time, getting short term overseas vets in to do cat and dog neutering when they can. There was one vet who did manage to do surgery on a snake (removing a damaged eye) but she's moved on, and I don't think she'd have had much info on reptile diseases.

This is one of the things that had made this forum so valuable to me; a source of advice and others' experiences when I'm pretty much out here in a vacuum, so I really appreciate hearing other people's stories and ideas.

My female should be thinking of dropping her litter fairly soon - by my calculations early to mid May, and I'm going to try two things:

1. MUCH more humid conditions - last time I relied on our normal atmospheric conditions (80 - 85 % or higher most days) plus, of course a bathing bowl, but had them on dry newspaper substrate. This year I'm going for a wet paper towel or cloth substrate and wet sphagnum moss (with climbing branches so they don't HAVE to sit wet) for at least the first few weeks, and misting.

2. Keep them on parts (tails, back legs) of larger geckos rather than whole small geckos for as long as I can in the hopes of avoiding gut-based parasites. I didn't seem to have trouble until I started them on entire geckos last time.

I don't have a source of clean feeder rodents, but when they are big enough, I move them onto day old chicks, supplemented by frozen chicken portions for a bit more muscle mass. This seems to work well, the difficulty is they take a couple of years to get large enough to take chicks, so the middle phase is a range of gecko sizes, plus sometimes small pieces of chicken designed for human consumption. Obviously they eat wild-caught geckos when they are in the wild themselves, but it is possible that only few of them make it to maturity in the wild.

From what you, and others I have contacted are saying, they do not seem to have a low survival rates when bred in "Real World" captivity, which is one of the things I wanted to know. It's possible that in the wild they simply do not all survive - that's often the case with animals that have large numbers of offspring at a time.

Now I just have to work out how best to tread the line between wild mortality and better captive conditions.

Thanks for the interest, looking forward to hearing how your Candoia are going.

 

[EPICRATES]

Candoia

Hi Helen,

As you know, this complex comes from a warm & humid environment. In you're keeping them there in Fiji, you're room temperature is ideal. As far as any parasites, I dunno. These babies eat frogs, geckos, etc. Candoia carinata paulsoni have huge litters of small neonates which translates into lower survival rate. Cuban Boas (Epicrates angulifer) have small litters of very large offspring. By investing more resources in bigger babies, nature should allow a higher rate of survival. Just a few thoughts off of the top of my head. I'm having to forcefeed a few of my newborn paulsoni since they've refused anoles, geckos, & tree frogs. What we do for our herps.

Jay

 

[Monkey Tails Canada]

Roy Stockwell Breeds Candoia here in Canada. He has never fed his babys anoles, frogs or geckos. He start's them all with a pinky pump then switches them over to mice.
He has not lost many babys with this method.

He has alot of posts about his Candoia on the Reptiles Canada forum.
Sadly he has sold most of his solomon boas over the years and now only keeps one pair of white Candoia.

He has also metioned that he still gets great breeding results with just the one male in the past.

 

[Monkey Tails Canada]

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09-29-2007, 06:02 PM#1




Roy Stockwell









Location: OntarioPosts: 8,975Thanks: 0Thanked 78 Times in 45 Posts


Solomon boas born today



Here's a new born litter of Candoia carinata paulsoni. It's been a couple years since I had a litter, but here we go again... Shoestring time..
I've been breeding this species for about 20 years.. These are F3 or F4, I've lost track but the adults were produced by me, from ones produced here, and so on.
This is a very young female that produced this litter... She is pictured here in the "cage" she was raised in, which is only a shoebox Rubbermaid, as a size indicator, the water bowl is a Dollarama ramakin bowl, the 2 for a buck size.
Some of the babies have cool patterns.
There were 16 babies, one slug.. One baby is kinked but there are 15 good ones.

I have loads of experience raising this species.. You don't even try to feed them on their own till xmas. Babies eat jumping frogs in the wild, and that is
pretty hard to emulate in captivity, so I don't bother even trying.
They go straight on the pinky pump, with Fancy Feast beef and liver cat food. I've been doing it that way for years. (pinkies are too valuable.. need them for my rubber boas)
Most will be eating pinkies by the spring after their second or third shed.











Uncle Roy
Celebrating 34consecutive years of captive reptile breeding in Canada.
More than a hobby, it's a lifestyle.


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09-29-2007, 06:05 PM#2




speckledmind









Location: 2 Klicks from downtown OttawaPosts: 1,604Thanks: 0Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts






Congrats.

This one sure looks nice and tempting






Originally Posted by Roy Stockwell





Regards, Denis


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09-29-2007, 06:05 PM#3




pool










Location: TorontoPosts: 353Thanks: 2Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts


conratulations



very nice, Roy.

definitely some intriguing patterns among them.


"Judge not the whole individual by one facet alone, lest ye be deemed none too bright." - uuum, I just made it up, I did.


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09-29-2007, 06:07 PM#4




Roy Stockwell









Location: OntarioPosts: 8,975Thanks: 0Thanked 78 Times in 45 Posts






The colour in Candoia doesn't really come in until they are a year or two old... you get subtle hints sometimes in the babies but you wont recognize them two years from now... most of these will contain black white and reddish hues, similar to Mom
That one with the wide stripe, will likely be a more reddish one, which should look fantastic with that wide stripe down the back.


Uncle Roy
Celebrating 34consecutive years of captive reptile breeding in Canada.
More than a hobby, it's a lifestyle.


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09-29-2007, 08:09 PM#5




mitchkranz










Location: Calgary, AlbertaPosts: 1,401Thanks: 0Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts






amazing babies congrats!!!


Mitch K
www.betterboa.com


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09-29-2007, 08:12 PM#6




bistrobob85










Location: South Shore of MontrealPosts: 963Thanks: 0Thanked 4 Times in 2 Posts






Congratulations, Roy . Oh, also, your PM box is full.

phil.

Last edited by bistrobob85; 09-29-2007 at 08:23 PM.


-- Manticore Importations --
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09-29-2007, 08:58 PM#7




Fritz Reptiles










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Really cool looking babies ! Congrats !!


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09-29-2007, 09:33 PM#8




pool










Location: TorontoPosts: 353Thanks: 2Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts


your pm is still full, bra



Do you happen to have a pic of the male that sired them, Roy. I mean, after all he deserves some recognition for the achievement : )


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09-29-2007, 09:44 PM#9




Roy Stockwell









Location: OntarioPosts: 8,975Thanks: 0Thanked 78 Times in 45 Posts











Originally Posted by pool

Do you happen to have a pic of the male that sired them, Roy. I mean, after all he deserves some recognition for the achievement : )
I have 2 small black and white high contrast males... It could have been either one of them.. I had both males with her.



Uncle Roy
Celebrating 34consecutive years of captive reptile breeding in Canada.
More than a hobby, it's a lifestyle.


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09-29-2007, 09:46 PM#10




Zoe










Location: Ottawa, OntarioPosts: 2,656Thanks: 0Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts






I, too, would like to see some pics of papa! I know I'm jumping the gun, but when can I buy one?

How long is the female? Nice big litter, eh?

PS, pool, good call on your prediction of Roy's babies!


"Who" is used as the subject: "Who gave you a ride to the reptile expo?" You can often substitute "he" or "she" for "who".
"Whom" is for an object: "With whom did you go to the expo?"


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09-29-2007, 09:59 PM#11




Roy Stockwell









Location: OntarioPosts: 8,975Thanks: 0Thanked 78 Times in 45 Posts






Look up Zoe... the pics are there Could have been either one or both of those males... they look almost the same anyways. They all live in shoeboxes, so they aren't very big.. How bigs a shoebox..? a foot long. The female is bigger than the males but still under 2 feet I think... they bite, so I don't mess with them much


Uncle Roy
Celebrating 34consecutive years of captive reptile breeding in Canada.
More than a hobby, it's a lifestyle.


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09-29-2007, 10:18 PM#12




Zoe










Location: Ottawa, OntarioPosts: 2,656Thanks: 0Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts






Well I guess I should look into breeding my female some day, then. She's almost 3 feet long.
Yours bite? Hm. Mine are ultra placid.
Anyway, congrats on the lovely litter!

Last edited by Zoe; 09-29-2007 at 10:22 PM.


"Who" is used as the subject: "Who gave you a ride to the reptile expo?" You can often substitute "he" or "she" for "who".
"Whom" is for an object: "With whom did you go to the expo?"


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09-29-2007, 10:21 PM#13




D. Pogue









Posts: 670Thanks: 0Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts


Is biting bad........??








Originally Posted by Roy Stockwell

they bite, so I don't mess with them much
Isn't that the best part??

Or is it just me??

That's the only way my Spilotes/Bloods/Yellowtails/Gonyosoma/Cavers can show their unconditional love ........

D.

ps - save some babies for yours truly, Roy .

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09-29-2007, 10:34 PM#14




pool










Location: TorontoPosts: 353Thanks: 2Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts






My adults are generally placid, but sometimes bite ( FWIW they originated from Roy, were raised by yourself, Don and passed onto me by DON OLTEAN ) Same temperament with the "black" Candoia.


I agree - their nature is part of their appeal. I don't handle them much, in part, 'cause I like them that way.

What's up with people selling off their Candoia only to seek out more shortly thereafter. I noticed Jay J also had a wanted add for Candoia recently.

PS what took you so long, Zoe ?

Last edited by pool; 09-29-2007 at 10:40 PM.


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09-29-2007, 11:44 PM#15




Roy Stockwell









Location: OntarioPosts: 8,975Thanks: 0Thanked 78 Times in 45 Posts











Originally Posted by D. Pogue

Isn't that the best part??

Or is it just me??

That's the only way my Spilotes/Bloods/Yellowtails/Gonyosoma/Cavers can show their unconditional love ........

D.

ps - save some babies for yours truly, Roy .
Yeah, Don I keep telling people "Snakes bite... period" but everyone thinks I'm wrong. I got chomped by 3 corn snakes today... and that mother Candoia, and both the males... (during the photos)
The only thing I touch without gloves or hooks are my Rubber boas and Calabars... so far they are the only species that don't jump out of their bins when I slide them open. I've been bit by lots of Ball Pythons, childrens pythons and all those other "tame" species too.
My snakes are not pets and don't normally get held... They get to know there is only one reason their trays slide open. Keeping them from hitting the floor, being catapulted into the closest, and/or breaking teeth off in my clothing or flesh are ongoing challenges
Maybe snakes just don't like me, or perhaps I need more experience

Uncle Roy
Celebrating 34consecutive years of captive reptile breeding in Canada.
More than a hobby, it's a lifestyle.


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I will try to copy and paste some of his posts. Hopefully it works!!!

<a href='http://ads.dataherp.com/www/delivery/ck.php?n=adb81d60&cb=214211431234423' target='_blank'><img src='http://ads.dataherp.com/www/delivery/avw.php?zoneid=36&cb=2142614312434423&n=adb81d60' border='0' alt='' /></a>

 

[Monkey Tails Canada]

Sorry I screwed up that first copy and paste


I will try again!!



Here's a new born litter of Candoia carinata paulsoni. It's been a couple years since I had a litter, but here we go again... Shoestring time..
I've been breeding this species for about 20 years.. These are F3 or F4, I've lost track but the adults were produced by me, from ones produced here, and so on.
This is a very young female that produced this litter... She is pictured here in the "cage" she was raised in, which is only a shoebox Rubbermaid, as a size indicator, the water bowl is a Dollarama ramakin bowl, the 2 for a buck size.
Some of the babies have cool patterns.
There were 16 babies, one slug.. One baby is kinked but there are 15 good ones.

I have loads of experience raising this species.. You don't even try to feed them on their own till xmas. Babies eat jumping frogs in the wild, and that is
pretty hard to emulate in captivity, so I don't bother even trying.
They go straight on the pinky pump, with Fancy Feast beef and liver cat food. I've been doing it that way for years. (pinkies are too valuable.. need them for my rubber boas)
Most will be eating pinkies by the spring after their second or third shed.

 

[Monkey Tails Canada]

They can be sexed the day they are born... The males have huge claws, the females have none.
They do soak sometimes, but sitting in water is also caused by temps being too high, the need for a hiding spot, or mites... so consider all those as well.
Candoia don't like high temps and females won't even thermoregulate like most boas.. They will avoid temps over 85... No sitting on 90 degree hot spots for Candoia. This also explains why they have fairly long gestation periods. 6 or more months

I use the same containers sometimes without removing the marking on them. I think the female is likely a 2000 but the males are younger.
I'm pretty sure those males are siblings and from this litter born Sept 24/04, so that would make them 3 years old.

Zoe, you have that big Red one Right? Is it the same one in Melly's gallery, it looks a bit the same. There are several nice red ones around and they keep get flipped from one novice keeper to another... Someone should gather up all those red ones and buckle down to breeding them.
I suspect you've greatly under estimated her age. That one is probably wild caught and likely over a decade old... It takes them a very long time to exceed 3 feet even in captivity, so probably much longer in the wild.

 

[Monkey Tails Canada]

Here is a couple pics of Roy Stockwell's Candoia.

 

[Monkey Tails Canada]

I found this older post from Roy so I thought I would paste for you to view.




I have produced Candoia with only one male..There were several years, I was down to only one male and I still produced babies. It's not true that you require multiple males... It isn't a bad idea, but it's no different from any other Boid in my experience.
When females are building up follicles in preparation for ovulation, they will binge feed... You'll notice an increase in alertness and they tend to jump at anything that moves... Mine will strike the cages with any shadow or hand that passes by.

When they get into this elevated hunger mode, that is the time to feed them heavily, and they should be taking medium rats weekly...
They will only ovulate if they are ready.. I wouldn't worry so much about if she is read or not... Mother nature will look after that.
If she doesn't have enough weight, she just plain won't produce babies..

This increased hunger generally happens this time of year into the winter.
They breed in the spring when temperatures rise back up to normal.
Conditioning for Candoia involves only slight night dips, down into the low 70' but this must be followed up with day time highs in the 80's.
Candoia are very sensitive to RI's and will get the pops and clicks easily if stressed or cooled for too long.

If yours is feeding well, start packing the rats to her and she should be breedable next spring if you have a male. Males don't eat at all once the breeding season starts, so they should be fed well late summer into winter. It's normal for males to go up to 6 months without food.

 

[Monkey Tails Canada]

Last copy/paste I think I should share.



Solomons... progress report



It takes baby Solomon Island boas a bit of time, assist feeding, pump feeding and scenting, but eventually they start eating on their own..
Here's a shot of 6 that just ate good sized pinkies all on their own.. no scenting... so the hard work pays off with some time. 8 of 16 have now eaten on their own
They are from this litter born the end of September 07

 

[EPICRATES]

Candoia

Great info thanks for sharing. Good insight & interesting methods. I'd be scared to try to pinkypump babies that tiny! Luckily being in FL sm frogs aren't too difficult to find.

Jay

 

[hadenglock]

You're completely right, and if there was a vet who knew anything about reptiles in the country I'd certainly do it. Unfortunately Fijian vets concentrate on cows and pigs, and the SPCA runs without a vet for much of the time, getting short term overseas vets in to do cat and dog neutering when they can. There was one vet who did manage to do surgery on a snake (removing a damaged eye) but she's moved on, and I don't think she'd have had much info on reptile diseases.

This is one of the things that had made this forum so valuable to me; a source of advice and others' experiences when I'm pretty much out here in a vacuum, so I really appreciate hearing other people's stories and ideas.

My female should be thinking of dropping her litter fairly soon - by my calculations early to mid May, and I'm going to try two things:

1. MUCH more humid conditions - last time I relied on our normal atmospheric conditions (80 - 85 % or higher most days) plus, of course a bathing bowl, but had them on dry newspaper substrate. This year I'm going for a wet paper towel or cloth substrate and wet sphagnum moss (with climbing branches so they don't HAVE to sit wet) for at least the first few weeks, and misting.

2. Keep them on parts (tails, back legs) of larger geckos rather than whole small geckos for as long as I can in the hopes of avoiding gut-based parasites. I didn't seem to have trouble until I started them on entire geckos last time.

I don't have a source of clean feeder rodents, but when they are big enough, I move them onto day old chicks, supplemented by frozen chicken portions for a bit more muscle mass. This seems to work well, the difficulty is they take a couple of years to get large enough to take chicks, so the middle phase is a range of gecko sizes, plus sometimes small pieces of chicken designed for human consumption. Obviously they eat wild-caught geckos when they are in the wild themselves, but it is possible that only few of them make it to maturity in the wild.

From what you, and others I have contacted are saying, they do not seem to have a low survival rates when bred in "Real World" captivity, which is one of the things I wanted to know. It's possible that in the wild they simply do not all survive - that's often the case with animals that have large numbers of offspring at a time.

Now I just have to work out how best to tread the line between wild mortality and better captive conditions.

Thanks for the interest, looking forward to hearing how your Candoia are going.

ahh i see your dilema........ that is a tough situation to deal with, my best advice with this then is to continue doing research on your dilema and then contacting breeders seeing how they raise them compared to how you are, chances are you'll find something maybe they're doing that you're not or vice versa.

 

[Helenthereef]

Thanks for all the responses, sorry I didn't comment earlier, I've been out and about away from the keyboard.

My Candoia bibroni bibroni just gave birth, but I had very few survivors See posts:

The Good News (photos of live neonates)
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=398857

The Bad news (photo of dead neonates)
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=398859

Would appreciate any comments or insights.

Please continue to post any experiences, They are all very helpful, and hopefully not just to me

 

[Fins tails and scales]

My candoia c p is sweetheart never bit or acted aggressive. I had a viper boa once and got bit frequently. I would be holding it fine then all of a sudden bam. My ground boa I could reach right in and pill her out of her hide rock and she is fine. I don't hold her often either. I also had a pair of amazon tree boas the male bit me all the time and the female was jumpy but never bit me. Sometimes I think every individual snake is different.

 

[Helenthereef]

Of the five adult Candoia bibroni bibroni I currently have, two are ridiculously handleable, literally walking out of the tank onto my arm when I open the door, two are puppy tame but have to be woken up and picked up to come out, and one is a tree bound Bh who I have to peel off the branches wearing gloves...

And people think reptiles don't have character....