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Pointless pi$$ing contests on the BOI - Bad Guy

T

Tom Chambers

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You know, I used to come to this board as a great source of info for the herp industry and the private herp community as well.

And I used to post fairly frequently but have become more of a lurker over the last year or so simply due to the fact that I got tired of 4 outta 5 posts turning into personal pi$$ing contests between 2 or 3 people. It's almost ALWAYS the same few people (you know who you are, really, you do) that have elected themselves to be the BOI police that jump on almost every thread posted and begin to take sides.

Now, we are ALL guilty of this to some extent, because it's human nature to give our .02, but it seems that certain individuals chime in on MOST posts in one way or another and that this board has been so diluted by this kind of stuff....that it's lost some of it's credibility. I hear more people joking about it than referring to it in a serious manner now.....and that NEVER used to happen.

Please, if you have something PERTINENT to share in a thread, by all means, POST IT. But if you don't have something to offer regarding THE POSTED TOPIC and just want to bash someone you've developed a distaste for, or argued with in ANOTHER thread, good guy, bad guy, or indifferent.....kindly PM it, e-mail it to the individual, or keep it to yourself! This is a great site and I'd love to see it go back towards the useful tool it once seemed to be rather than "The Days of Our Lives" of the herp world.

Rant over now.........just my .02...haha.

Tom Chambers
TC Reptile
 
couldn't agree more

Tom,
I feel the same way. I come here everyday to see whats going on. This site has the potential to be a great tool if used correctly. I had an awesome deal with a seller last year, however I see his name getting dragged through the mud here the past few days. To many people have friends chime in to promote their complaint making the so called "bad guy" really look bad. I post when I know someone is trying to scam me so others will be aware. I also post for opinions and have gotten some great feedback. I will continue to browse this site but wish the moderators would just delete replies that don't deal with the thread itself. I know they have their hands full but if you take a job I feel it should be done correctly. I'm amazed Rich hasn't thrown in the towel, who needs the headaches? Well hopefully things will change and it will reach its potential. Ron Radloff
 
total agreement

i have to agree with both of the previous posts. i came on here a while back simply asking some questions about a newly aquired animal and was suddenly jumped on by several of the "regulars"...everything i said was twisted and distorted to make their points seem valid and make myself or anyone else who came out to defend me and my opinion like some sort of monsters....i believe everyone has their opinion and here in america this is a god given right. but just because i don't agree with yours or you with mine, does this really need to be brought down to the level of schoolyard name calling? i wouldn't think so, but more than a few (and like posted previously, you know who you are) have taken this site to boost their own ego's rather than provide any useful or helpful info....i have scanned through the posts over the past few days and found most of the threads more amusing than instructional...hell, i call friends and tell them to check out the site for laughs....i think this is pretty sad...i would much rather see this site return to something i can refer friends to for true honest and supportive help, rather than somewhere to be attacked and assaulted by self proclaimed know-it-alls....and like the previous posts....

this is just me .02....;)
 
Glad to hear it!!

I know I am considered a new member with very few posts but that isn't exactly the case. I first started coming here over two years ago when this BOI was really getting into the swing and I find that some of the same people that where bashing and posting many many posts a day are the same today as back then. I first got involved in with the BOI when I done some business with a fellow from Asland Ky by the name of Jarrod, I am sorry but can't remember the last name. I was extremly please with the deal and his help afterwards. After the fact I checked him out here and his name seemed to be mud, because one person had a bad experience and made a huge stink. That person was just the beginning. What was worse was all the people that had no first hand experience getting on here and bashing just because one other person didn't like what happened.

I am glad there is a place where a person can research an individual before making and investment large or small. I personally would like to see more facts and less back seat driving about people that they don't know anything about. Opinions are like @$$holes, everyone has one, but it isn't nessacery to show yours everyday in matters that you know nothing about either.

This is merely my 2cents and humble opinion (maybe I shouldn't show mine here but couldn't refrain). I point at no one personally and hope that this is taken as it is ment, an effort to ad posistively to the BOI.

Jonathan Brumfield
 
Right on!!

Yep, I also agree. I too, had posted an inquiry about a problem at a reptile show and 3-4 people turned it into a personal feud that went waaaay off the subject matter. It got so bad it ended up in Hell. I still see a few threads that have taken on lives of their own and have over 300 posts!! I don't even bother to read them as I have a pretty good idea where they have headed.....off subject and into personal rips!!

But, I do like the positive (and negative....if done in a constructive manner) feedback about other peoples dealings with reptile purchases/trades or the like. It is helpful.

Ok, that's my 2 cents worth.....so what are we up to now....about 8 cents....lol?

Scott Nellis
 
Tom - do you see the irony of your own posting here? Is this REALLY a topic for the BOI, based on what it was designed for? Yes, it is ABOUT the BOI, but such a topic is not on-topic for this forum.

Do you see the problem? Everyone else thinks the rules are for everyone else, and NOT them. They feel justified in what they post based on their own personal opinions of what is pertinent and what is not. You felt this thread was pertinent for the BOI, didn't you? Have you read the rules? Do you know what the BOI is here for? But you, like many other people, feel the right to post their 2 cents here when they feel it is justified. My moderators and myself get gripe-o-grams every day from someone who feels their getting warning points was not justified, in their opinion. They feel they have a right to say what they want, when they want, and where they want, with no restrictions whatsoever. And I do believe it sincerely shocks them when they find that this is not the case here.

As far as deleting off topic posts, that's all well and good if there is a definite line between what is on topic and what is not, but these threads in here, much like ANY conversation people will have in any manner, will drift from one topic or another gradually, or simply from one comment made along with a bunch of other ones in a single message. If someone replies to that one slightly off topic statement made, and it then drifts off into it's own direction, at what point do you determine it is now completely off topic? And what do you do about it? Tell people they cannot reply to something posted in a message that might not exactly on the beam with the original topic statement of the thread? Just how to you propose to do that? Many people here STILL have not read the rules for posting here, so adding more is going to help much?

As an aside, when I go to the new upgrade for this message board, any user can set up the display for this site in a sub-threaded fashion, much like you see on some other sites, instead of the strictly chronological order you see here now. In those instances, branching subthreads can easily be identified and maintained, if you all want to do it that way.

My personal preference is to give people too much freedom, rather then not enough. So I am light handed in how I manage things here hoping there is more maturity, level headedness, truth, and honesty in this business and hobby then not. But to be honest, over the last few years, I am no longer optimistic that this is the case at all. In a perfect world, my job would be to just be the doorman who welcomes you in the door, and that would be it. Whatever you do after that point will decide what you make of your time and efforts here, but neither I ,nor my moderators, should need to treat anyone like some errant child needing attention. Why should we have to reprimand people for profanity? Why should we have to remind people to read the rules? Why should we have to suspend people for behavior that is obviously attrociously unfit to be on a publicly viewed message board?

If people want an overmoderated, tightly controlled site, with much less freedom of expression, in other words something that this site is NOT, then I am sure they can find what they need elsewhere. And to them I say, have a nice time at your new home. No hard feelings on my part, as I would just as soon you be on your way rather then be someone causing trouble because they don't like the way this site is run. Just don't try to make this one into something it is not, instead. I am perfectly willing to make changes when it is perceived necessary, but NO, I am not going to make this site into something else that is not what I want it to be entirely.

But perhaps there is no such thing. Maybe the site I have envisioned just is not possible because what it is trying to do means allowing people to do exactly the same thing that would destroy it. Some people, apparently, are just not strong enough to be able to handle the responsibility of freedom.

As far as throwing the towel in on all of the BS here, yes, I have been close many times. But I am seriously considering another avenue whereby YOU all may throw the towel in for me, if that is what the future brings. There are definitely some changes in the future to try to address some problems I have seen here throughout. And I certainly do not expect everyone to like them, either, as some certainly will leave in a huff. But maybe it is time for me to stop being the one making all the sacrifices here and try to separate the men from the boys.

All in all, I have been trying to give you all the tools you need in order to help clean up our industry and our hobby. If you choose to make a mockery of it all, then you all will reap what you sow.

Just answer this one question for me: Are things BETTER, WORSE, or the SAME now, then before the BOI was here?
 
I see them by far better for me since I found this site. I personally feel I saved myself some bad dealings due to this site and that is why I try to help when I can.

I also see a need to allow off-topic posts to stand. Not only can buyers /sellers make decisions based on the dealings of which the thread started, but also by the attitudes of other posters that jump into said threads. I know my mouth has cost me a few sales, but I would rather be myself and speak my mind.
This is my biggest gripe about other sites, posts are deleted when anything slightly off is posted.

I do see both sides though, and have found myself not reading threads when I see the post count in the 100's.
 
Better all in all It has saved myself and my wife from purchasing from some of the scammers. It does bring to light these people.

Yet is some cases its also a tool for the scammers to learn how to better hide their actions and deals atleast for awhile and get a few but in the End the BOI always sniffs them out.

It is the BBB of the reptile trade and hobby and though not always perfect the Hobby would be wourse off without it.
 
As I inferred with my comment about giving people too much freedom rather then not enough, I am perfectly happy to hand someone all the rope they need in order to hang themselves with their own words. MANY times I have had people request and demand of me that I save them from themselves with their past postings.

Sorry about that.......
 
I Agree

Yes I am better off for finding the BOI. I have also found myself basically ignoring post by persons that I have found to get overly involved. I will say no more other than, Thank You for giving the Hobby a place where Inquries are possible.


Jonathan Brumfield
 
One further comment about this issue of "other" people posting off topic messages and such. Be careful about what you wish for. One another site I run, I gave people what they asked for, and they didn't like it much. They didn't realize that it would apply to THEM as well as the other guy.
 
Nothing

is perfect in this world. I feel this BOI is non replacable it has a long history that can be looked up. Of course if something happened to this site you could create a similar site but then what would happen to the past years. All in all if theres questions you can come to this site and check everything out. One thing I hate the way the forum board on Kingsnake is set up I enjoy thier classifieds much more and sell more items off of kingsnake than I do here but this site is much needed.
 
Actually, I've noticed that many of the posts on the BOI concern favorable transactions. People don't just complain about bad eggs: they praise people who provide quality service and quality products.

Sure, some threads degenerate into stupid arguments. OTOH, most of those threads involve stupid people doing stupid things. What's more, those same Stupid People typically behave in such a way as to ensure that no one in his or her right mind would do business with them. (Professionals don't respond to complaints with threats to "kick your a$$" or talk about "filing lawsuites" etc.) So even those threads can be useful if you're contemplating a purchase.
 
i actually joined fauna to put my 2 cents on a post, i decided to stay and gather info on how scammers run their scams.

i know i have had my fair share of turning threads into wars, it was never my intention to do so. heck, i have made enemies with seemingly simple post's on here over trying to share/gather information. i will admit though, that if people needed a hard time they got it from me (sig below). i know it only brings me down to thier level to act like that, but at times i just didnt care.

now carrying pissing wars and fueds beyond hell and the boi is just utter nonsense. it gets kind of nerve racking to watch what you post, because people who troll the boards looking to pick fights. they go through all of your post to find one thing wrong with what you post and decides its time to start a war on that board. it gets scary to think you cant ask for public advice, without someone jumping you for it. im not only talking about me here, alot of other people get flak for asking Q's and from simple name changes to new websites.

also whats commonly seen here is that, you normally always hear the person in the wrong to try to tell everyone that has not done business with him to not comment. i see it that if its posted on a public forum anyone and their mother has the right to comment. in some cases if it was upto the buyer and seller to argue it out it wouldnt be resolved. normally both sides think they are in the right and normally, thanks to a unbiased member, it gets straightened out.

The boi has its good points and it has its bad points, but everything seems to have them. the good normally outweigh the bad here though.
 
Webslave - Perhaps you misunderstood the point of my post. I apologize if you feel that this is in ANY way even REMOTELY similar to the very posts it seeks to criticize. There is no flaming of individuals here. I think the BOI is GREAT and I certainly appreciate everything you do here and this site. THAT is exactly why I posted the topic.

It is posted in hopes that people that some people will voice their opinion on the subject and others that tend to be a bit overzealous in their posts may take a moment to stop posting and think about the actual thread and why they are really posting.

Like I said....we ALL have done it.....myself included....it's human nature to give the .02. It just seems that there is more flaming than good info being passed these days.....BY FAR.

And to answer your question...the on-line herp community is BETTER because of this site.....that's why I posted.....I enjoy this site and I hate to see people use it for lynchings and personal vendettas CONSTANTLY. Posting these individuals names in individual bad guy posts isn't appropriate at all......and they aren't bad people...just folks with a lot of time on their hands and a need to create and participate in DRAMA.

I was just pointing out that it seems that there's more drama than good info in the last year....and a few seemed to agree with me. And I'm not so much talking about people that hang themselves by lying or calling names when called to the mat for something as the SUBJECT of a thread.....I'm talking about the same individuals that you see in any of these deteriorating threads that "jump on the bandwagon" and then end up calling each other names for 20 somewhat pages.

Thanks for the site Webslave, I'm sorry you feel this post was inappropriate or a violation of TOS....it certainly wasn't meant to do that. I wasn't criticizing you for not doing something about it....you can't possibly babysit every thread.....people have to do that for themselves.....that's why I thought a post to the board about the subject might be appropriate. I would like to see the thread stay, but as it is your site, move it or "poof" delete it as you see fit.

Respectfully,

Tom Chambers
TC Reptile
 
Tom - I have posted my own share of messages with the only intent to make people step back and take a look at themselves. So I guess I can't fault you for doing the same thing. ;)

But I can't change people. They can only re-evaluate themselves and make the changes within.
 
I dont agree 100%.
You defenitely brought up some very good points, which some people should consider, and actually pay attention too.
And, I couldn't agree more in some cases. I still enjoy Fauna, when people post. The Snake and Lizard discussion forums usually arent bad, and nobody usually argues over there.
Fun place to post...
 
Sand and Sun - You are absolutely right, I was referring to the BOI specifically, not the site as a whole.

And Rich, well, yeah, you can only plant the seed right? Heck, I will do well to remember my own post when I see something that charges me up. Darn this age thing anyway....but that's another "Bad Guy" post for another forum! haha

TC
 
I haven't been a member long and I've never known Fauna w/o the BOI. That being said, I love the BOI. It serves a purpose that I've not seen anywhere else.

Karen
 
As Rich says I would rather there be to much freedom to make yourself look like an @$s. There are many, many threads that are totally on topic, and give an atta boy or a bad guy/girl opinion, are only a few pages long. I think the difference is that those have "concrete" evidence, good or bad. Therefore, it is easy to determine that the seller is good or bad and put them on their own "do not deal with" list.

Many of the ones that go on forever, seem to have very little "real" evidence and they therefore grow into a very lenghty thread, some of it is people still try to get the OP or their target to post better evidence, some of it is garbage turning into flames due either to the posters inability to realize that there is not enough evidence to take a side, but take one anyway and charge in full bore, others it is obvious that they just don't like the person or whatever and flame on. At any rate I think it is obvious to the rest of us, including lurkers who is who. I myself add some of those people to my "don't deal with these people, because I don't think they would make a good customer" list.
As an example, there is a thread pertaining to a King Cobra and an oreganus@?mail.com. It has a lot of people in there who just seem to have a lot of anger with the subject because he deals in venomoids, there is one guy who posted a bunch of one line angry flames, I think at least one whole page (many seperate posts, not one long one like sometimes takes a lot of a page) is nothing but from him. I stayed out of it and finally on like page 35 or something, I posted two issues that I felt were the only pertinent issue at hand, to try to put it back opn track.

At any rate, virtually every forum site even regulated ones, the threads can get ugly and I would rather have the freedom, rather than a site where posts are deleted and people banned on a daily basis (usually with out just cause, and for selfish reasons) like a certain site.
 
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