Policy change for FaunaClassifieds - IMPORTANT! PLEASE READ!

[Rick Staub]

Another potential topic that seems like it would no longer be allowed to comment on here is the quality of information posted and or provided by any of the ks.com moderators. This was another thing that led to the big rift that now exists with JeffB. When people here and there questioned the quality of some of the information on Melissa Kaplan's web page and I think some of the posts she made to the ks.com iguana forum. While I agree that some of the stuff we are discussing just amounts to trivial criticism and bashing of ks.com, I feel it is very relevant to have a forum where one can still offer factual criticism to anything somebody is shoveling, even a ks.com moderator.

I would also like to point out that this little squabble has been very good for other forums and web sites and I would guess for Fauna Classifieds also. I know that I had never visited this site prior to the events on the ks.com forum. So to those who say that nothing has changed with regards to ks.com's stronghold on herp e-business, I would say that that is untrue. Take a look at fieldherpers.com and the hits on this site are probably higher also. I would say there is a chink in the armor that used to protect ks.com. His actions opened up his business to competition. Take a look at the ks.com field collecting forum which used to be his most visited forum. It's dead now. Those people and their knowledge and some of their business has moved elsewhere. Given time the herp internet business field may become more level. While people like Gerry may only come here infrequently now, they are at least visiting when they may not have before. When the situation is right, they may even become future customers.

 

[Darin Chappell]

Rich asked a valid question of Gerry, but I think it pertains to us all. It reads:

"So what are YOU going to do to help if this problem is as bad as you say it is?"

Well, I am not in a position to create a new website to address the issues about which I have such strong convictions. I have neither the time nor the expertise to attempt it. Even if I could, I doubt it would ever attract the needed attention that a section of this site will undoubtedly attract.

However, since you asked what I was willing to do, let me say this: I am willing to serve as a moderator on a forum dedicated explicitly for the purpose of examining bad deals (animal or service related) concerning other websites. Rich, you know that I am an honest and fair-minded person (if not modest!). I WILL NOT allow any site to be the butt of someone's mindless jokes, nor will I permit a vendetta to be waged for personal reasons on the part of anyone. I promise to keep it in the image of "Dragnet" and require "just the facts, ma'am."

You may decide that you still don't want any thing to do with a web examining forum on your site. Fair enough. You may determine that you do, but for what ever reason, you don't want me involved with it. You won't hurt my feelings in the slightest. However, it was right for you to ask what we are willing to do in order to have what is important to us, and it is equally right for me to step up and tell you.

I now have.

 

[KNOBTAIL]

RICH, hoping that my message does not

require any additonal house cleaning, I think your original post accurately reflects the course of action that you should take. This site should pertain to the "good and bad of dealing with Herp people and how they handle themselves in a business transaction. " it has nothing to do with whether Kingsnake bans someone, or someone is treated unfairly on Jeffs site. As I indicated in my earlier post, we are talking about two very different websites. The BOI is probably the most informative site on the internet for providing a "amber elert", and Kingsnake is undoubtably the largest advertising site to generate sales. Both are invaluable assets, and should be applauded by the herp community. I for one am very glad you are both here. But to allow Kingsnake bashing on the BOI or BOI slashing on Kingsnake serves no purpose other than to create problems that are really unnecessary, fruitless and in the end will lead to a direction that I seriously doubt you would want to venture into. JERRY TRESSER

 

[Gerry Binczik]

My response to Rich:

Rich, you asked some very good questions in your recent posts in this thread, and I'd like to take a stab at answering them:

"<i>So what are YOU going to do to help if this problem is as bad as you say it is?</i>"

The trite answer is that I'll do whatever I can.

Thus far that has meant:

- Expending a great deal of effort attempting to discuss and improve upon the current situation at kingsnake.com directly with PetHobbyist staff (to absolutely no avail, as I said previously). I'd STILL be trying to do this if I thought there was any point to it. Jeff Barringer himself has never seen fit to discuss ANYTHING with me directly - except to jump into an online discussion in which he wasn't a participant, for the sole purpose of publicly announcing my (first) banishment for kingsnake.com - and from what I can see his staff can only be trusted to stall, distract and dissemble in order to try to hang onto users despite treating them unjustly.

- Doing whatever I can think of on an ongoing basis to attract the herp community's scrutiny to the situation, and to exhort its members big and small to respond to the situation as they believe is right (rather than merely easy or profitable). This has ranged from talking about my personal experience with Jeff Barringer & Co. to discussing broad issues associated with their business, from private personal, telephone or e-mail conversations to public addresses in forums such as this, to walking around every herp show I can afford to attend as essentially a walking billboard about the issue.

- Trying mundane and creative ideas I think/hear of and can afford to pursue in order to promote free-speech alternatives to kingsnake.com, such as herpforums.com or - until this policy change - faunaclassifieds.

I'm also open to further ideas on what else I can do, but no, much as I might like to I can't currently sign on to be one of your moderators. I'm not sure that would really be the best use of my talents (such as they are), anyway. As far as I can see, there's no GOOD reason not to treat kingsnake.com and any other obviously herp-related website just as you do other herp-related businesses. I say allow praise/criticism of them to be posted in the BOI, as per your original charter. You've already moderators for that forum, and apparently additional volunteers to draw from if needed.

"<i>Why would the actions of the moderators at kingsnake.com be worthly of inclusion? Why should I care that they deleted the messages from many people and probably had a hand in the banning of many people?</i>"

You should care because ALL people of good will in a community should oppose injustice by people/institutions in positions of power perpetrated against those far less powerful. And the fact that you yourself occupy a relatively powerful position in the community makes it even more important that you yourself act responsibly toward it. How about if I rephrase your question "Why should a white person in the not-so-long-ago South have cared about the fact that blacks were required to ride in the back of the bus, so long as the bus got that white person where s/he wanted to go?" (I DO apologize for all of the racially-oriented analogies I've been bringing up, but honestly they're all I can think of lately; perhaps it's because Bronson, FL where I live is such a southern redneck community, and it bothers me).

My understanding is that you wanted the BOI to be a place where people in the herp community could speak openly about the practices of the businesses that serve it, to the benefit of the community as a whole. I'm just asking you not to abandon that goal.

I hope this helps clarify things for you.

Gerry

 

[WebSlave]

Please read the decision I have come to about this issue in the poll posted at the top of the BOI forum.

Poll thread

Thank you all for your opinions.