Possible Changes to Contribuitor Level account?

[Southern Wolf]

Hey Rich,

Would it be possible to make it so that instead of bumping only 3 times per month... you could bump your ad once a day?

Speaking from the perspective of someone that spends the first couple hours of their morning checking on and placing ads... this would really speed things up for us. It also might make it more inviting to those thinking of paying for that service.

Personally.... I like to keep my ads fresh and at least on the first 2 pages (if possible). Next year I should be producing somewhere between 150-160 babies and the amount of time it would take to relist those ads to keep them fresh would be cut down dramatically if this was possible. The time savings alone would make it worth the $25 for a yearly contribution.

For the few ads that I currently have running (one less as of this morning thanks to a sale on my site) it takes me around 10 mins or so to post new ads to keep them fresh. Being able to bump them up daily would cut my work load easily by 2/3rds on this site.. .and thus I can use that time for other business matters. They say time is money... and in this case... it would be worth the money... and could possibly be a selling point for your paid memberships.

Thanks for your time and considerations.

Kevin

 

[Shadera]

Wait. What's the cost of a yearly membership to post ads on KS?

The lowest level ($25) offers us 10 bumps per month, along with the ad title being highlighted if we choose. If you consolidate ads, that's not too bad a deal. Anything else can be bumped manually if it's that important.

Twenty five bucks to support a site you use and enjoy is a drop in the bucket.

 

[hhmoore]

The obvious sticking point is that there are tiered membership levels, with increasing benefits.
Contributing members can bump & highlight 10 ads per month (not 3)
Benefactor members get 50 (5x as many, for 4 times the cost)
Endowment members get 200 (4x Benefactor, at 2.5 times the cost)
Allowing the Contributor level members to bump even a single ad daily would detract from the value of the next level's benefit...and if it were multiple ads, as your suggestion seems to imply, it would easily surpass the $100 membership's number - and it wouldn't be inconceivable for people to surpass even the $250 membership's. That perk is one of the reasons I have opted for the higher level for a number of years (not that I consistently run that many ads; but again, that is my personal choice)


I will admit that many, if not most, of the benefits formerly associated with the Contributor level seem to be available to registered members (custom user titles, editing posts, etc), so it might not be unreasonable for Rich to consider adding some perks to that group...or pulling some back from the general membership.
One suggestion I would make is the banners in the signature area. That is basically free advertising; and, in many cases, quite obnoxious (my opinion, of course). How about kicking that option over to paid members only? (some size restrictions would be nice, but probably a hassle to police)

 

[Southern Wolf]

Wait. What's the cost of a yearly membership to post ads on KS?

The lowest level ($25) offers us 10 bumps per month, along with the ad title being highlighted if we choose. If you consolidate ads, that's not too bad a deal. Anything else can be bumped manually if it's that important.

Twenty five bucks to support a site you use and enjoy is a drop in the bucket.

Yearly is $100 on KS (which I dont currently do... Im on the 6 mos plan)

With your KS account you can bump ads every day if you choose.... it all depends on when you set them to expire.

I appologize... I was off on the 3... not sure where I got that number... but I remember looking at the subscription levels sometime last month and what they offered.

Even at 10 bumps... thats roughly one bump every three days. I believe it has been proven that most folks only go a few pages in... unless they are looking for something very specific. Thus your chance increase of making the sale if your ad is on the first couple of pages.

And I never said $25 was a bad deal.... Its not. I inquired as to if Rich would consider my idea.... In PM initially... he asked me to post it here.

 

[Southern Wolf]

Harald..... as long as there is a signature line then its free advertising. Take yours... its not a banner... but it is a text link.... and just like everyone else... every time you post, your advertising yourself and/or your business.

Lets say Rich did pull advertising (whether banners or text links) out of the signatures, or changed the rules.... who's gonna police it. Where will it end?

I hate to say this... and I mean absoltely no malice with it... so please dont take it that way... but I have the very same ads here that I do at KS (since it was brought up above)... I even post here and contribute a little (which I dont do at KS... I just place ads there) and thus my advertising gets thrown around a little bit more here, but from the time of

Oct 21-Nov 20th according to my analytical software I use on my website I got:

125 visits from KS
69 visits from Fauna

If someone doubts me... Im more than happy to take a screen shot to prove it.

Someone mentioned the difference between the costs to contribute here or pay for advertising rights there.... the numbers dont lie. At this point in the game... I have to consider anything I donate to a website advertising costs. It doesnt matter if its here, KS, or HF... its all advertising costs. Would I be willing to pay the $100 level here... not at this time... not with the amount of hits my advertising is generating.

Like I said... I mean no harm with the above numbers and statement.... Im just point out facts.

Harald... you do have a point with the tiered contributor levels... and I didnt think about that. Maybe that was why Rich asked me to post this here... dunno.

 

[Southern Wolf]

I will admit that many, if not most, of the benefits formerly associated with the Contributor level seem to be available to registered members (custom user titles, editing posts, etc), so it might not be unreasonable for Rich to consider adding some perks to that group...or pulling some back from the general membership.

Ummmm we cant edit posts... thus the reason for me making this one to say that

 

[WebSlave]

I hate to say this... and I mean absoltely no malice with it... so please dont take it that way... but I have the very same ads here that I do at KS (since it was brought up above)... I even post here and contribute a little (which I dont do at KS... I just place ads there) and thus my advertising gets thrown around a little bit more here, but from the time of

Oct 21-Nov 20th according to my analytical software I use on my website I got:

125 visits from KS
69 visits from Fauna

If someone doubts me... Im more than happy to take a screen shot to prove it.

Someone mentioned the difference between the costs to contribute here or pay for advertising rights there.... the numbers dont lie. At this point in the game... I have to consider anything I donate to a website advertising costs. It doesnt matter if its here, KS, or HF... its all advertising costs. Would I be willing to pay the $100 level here... not at this time... not with the amount of hits my advertising is generating.

And based on the amount of money you pay for ads here and KS, what is your actual COST per visit from each site?

 

[hhmoore]

Ummmm we cant edit posts... thus the reason for me making this one to say that

That's weird, I just checked that the other day on my dummy account (registered member), and I was able to edit my posts. I wonder if that had anything to do with the forum I posted to...guess I'll go off and check. *edit* Apparently, I shouldn't have tested the edit feature in the Testing Area, because it works there. I stand corrected - thank you, Kevin.*edit*

Looking at the numbers, I can easily see why you wouldn't want to go with the $100 membership...but I don't see why you can't justify spending a quarter of the money for half the hits. Again, it's a numbers thing. I, too, get more responses to ads at KS; and generate more hits when I advertise there (that reminds me, I guess I'd better do some more work on my website - I tore most of it down, and never went back to finish). Another factor to consider is the time spent dealing with those inquiries...especially with regard to the number of sales you make. Speaking for myself, I might get 2-3 times the number of responses/inquiries, but most of those go nowhere.
There are a couple of options for how long ads run there - the time goes by, the ad disappears...here, the ad stays until the seller removes it. (It's pretty obvious that the search engines pick up the old ads, too). If you select daily, you have to renew your ad or its gone. It keeps it on top, but there is a price - - and a limit to the number of ads you can post...3 per section per day. The number of photos per ad is also more limited there, and the preview/thumbnail photo requires the enhanced account.
Yes, without the highlight/bump feature, re posting ads here to keep them on top is tedious...but there is always the bump post (another reason I pay for that option - I don't want to be that guy, lol).

Banners in signature - I do think that would be a good option for the Contributing membership. Yours, Kevin, is tasteful - both in size and design - but, as a rule, I don't like having them there. When you factor in the people with BIG banners, those just posting images, and those advertising for other sites, it becomes an annoying distraction.

 

[Southern Wolf]

And based on the amount of money you pay for ads here and KS, what is your actual COST per visit from each site?

Ya got me on that one boss.... I wouldnt even begin to know where to start that calculation. I know that its cheaper for here... because currently Im not paying to advertise. If you could tell me the formula... Id greatly appreciate it. Im sure it would help me and other out in the future.

Make no mistake... I dont have any problem shelling out the $25... and eventually I will. My main reason for this inquiry was because currently ALL money I put towards websites I have to look at it as advertising costs. Would I like my $25 to help the BOI... you betcha.... it is a valuable resource. But I still have to figure it as advertising costs.

I do now know where I got the 3 bumps since I went back to the chart to refresh my memory on what the $25 level offered... it was for the Participant level.... so at least I didnt pull that number out of my toookis.

To be honest... the only advantage for me will be being able to do the bumps. Im not gonna change my avitar, I dont upload photos (with the exception of the one for the ad thumbnail). Like Harald... Im not gonna be the guy that just types bump... I will take the time to place new ads.

As to my number currently posted... they are slightly skewed since I didnt start advertising with KS till Nov 3rd.

From Nov 3rd - Nov 22
KS - 125
Fauna - 53

As to sales... all sales from the last month have been from KS or other forums. Although I have made sales from Fauna in the past.

 

[hhmoore]

Look at it this way - $25 gets you unlimited ads per category per day (though reposting them daily IS a chore), the ability to edit those ads (and your posts in the forums), AND you help the BOI.
(I do understand where you are coming from, though)

 

[Southern Wolf]

That's weird, I just checked that the other day on my dummy account (registered member), and I was able to edit my posts. I wonder if that had anything to do with the forum I posted to...guess I'll go off and check. *edit* Apparently, I shouldn't have tested the edit feature in the Testing Area, because it works there. I stand corrected - thank you, Kevin.*edit*

No problem.... I knew that in some places on the site... you stood by your words and you couldnt change them no matter what... but I figured in here you would be able to edit.. thats why I posted that. Im an Admin on another site so I understand how it goes with normally being about to do stuff others cant.

Looking at the numbers, I can easily see why you wouldn't want to go with the $100 membership...but I don't see why you can't justify spending a quarter of the money for half the hits. Again, it's a numbers thing. I, too, get more responses to ads at KS; and generate more hits when I advertise there (that reminds me, I guess I'd better do some more work on my website - I tore most of it down, and never went back to finish). Another factor to consider is the time spent dealing with those inquiries...especially with regard to the number of sales you make. Speaking for myself, I might get 2-3 times the number of responses/inquiries, but most of those go nowhere.
There are a couple of options for how long ads run there - the time goes by, the ad disappears...here, the ad stays until the seller removes it. (It's pretty obvious that the search engines pick up the old ads, too). If you select daily, you have to renew your ad or its gone. It keeps it on top, but there is a price - - and a limit to the number of ads you can post...3 per section per day. The number of photos per ad is also more limited there, and the preview/thumbnail photo requires the enhanced account.
Yes, without the highlight/bump feature, re posting ads here to keep them on top is tedious...but there is always the bump post (another reason I pay for that option - I don't want to be that guy, lol).

Banners in signature - I do think that would be a good option for the Contributing membership. Yours, Kevin, is tasteful - both in size and design - but, as a rule, I don't like having them there. When you factor in the people with BIG banners, those just posting images, and those advertising for other sites, it becomes an annoying distraction.

Once again... .your correct. I do spend time fielding inquiries but I also have to look at each and every contact as a potential sale... and its up to me to try and make that sale happen. Sure... some of the time it doesnt happen, but I will treat every contact as a 10 snake deal till they prove to me otherwise.

I actually have mine set for every two days... this way I have one set that is ready for relist when I log in and I dont have to wait for the time limit (24hrs) to roll around. It also allows me to modify my text if I want. I will admit I wish there was not the limit to the number of ads per section.... This is one of the things I am grateful for here at Fauna. I may be wrong here... but on the photos... your only limited if you use their system. If you write the HTML and hotlink... is there still a restriction on the number? I've only put a max of 2 images per ad so far.

As to the enhanced version... its not worth it for me. A thumbnail photo and a color change is not worth over DOUBLE what the standard account costs.

And like you I don't want to be that guy, I'll take the tedious route.


Now before we get tooooooooo far off track....the whole reason I approaced Rich with this and then posted here per his request is this.

Currently it takes me roughly 10mins to re post my ads here... which is not really alot of time... but next year when I have over double the babies for sale... that time will add up to quite a bit more. IF we were able to bump each ad once per day then not only do we stand a better chance of getting our ads seen but better chances of making that sale. With the number of ads that I have right now.... IF I could go to the control panel and click "bump" on each one of them... it would probably only take me 3 minutes with my connection speed vs the current 10mins or so to re post. They say time is money... well that 7 minutes I save each day adds up over the course of a week and almost gives me another hour each week to devote towards other aspects of the business... whether its advertising somewhere else or cleaning cages.

Or just think... thats 49 minutes a week I could put towards answering inquiries that arent gonna go anywhere

I know this would help me out in the long run and save alot of time on keeping my ads fresh and towards the top... or at least on the first 3 pages... each day. And if it will help me... then I know it will help others as well.

 

[hhmoore]

I knew that in some places on the site... you stood by your words and you couldnt change them no matter what... but I figured in here you would be able to edit

Actually, under this account, I have the ability edit my posts (or anyone else's) sitewide...but, I adhere to the policy of not doing so on the BOI. The whole reason I created the other account was to check various functions, because I had been a Benefactor, and then Endowment, level member before before I got involved with any of the moderator programs - between that, and some of the changes that have been made, I had no idea what registered members could/could not do. Apparently, registered members can edit in the Testing forum , and that is where I have done most of my feature tests.

I don't disagree that increasing the number of "bumps" available to Contributing members would be of benefit...but it just seems to be an extension of the same old problem - people wanting something for nothing, or more for less. The BOI has to be free, advertising has to be free, 10 bumps isn't enough for my $25 - I'd like ____. This really isn't anything against you, you just happen to be the one raising the subject. Say you find yourself getting better results from your advertising here, and you start considering the Benefactor level...what increase in perks would you be looking for to justify that? Obviously 50 bumps wouldn't be enough, especially if you were already getting at least 30 (enough to bump one ad daily, or two ads every other day) - of course, people currently at the $100 membership might decide that the increase in the Contributor level perks makes that a better option for their money...so Rich would have to hope that there would be enough Contributors to make up for the loss of Benefactors. Or, he could just revise the whole thing now and get it over with...after all, he's practically retired, he's got time on his hands

 

[DAND]

How about changes to the noncontributing level

Since what has been free doesn't seem to be appreciated, how about if there was no signature area allowed for noncontributing members and say a limited number of classifieds per week without any bumping.

 

[Lucille]

The expense of memberships/advertising fees might well be a deductible expense, making them even more affordable for those who run businesses.

 

[WebSlave]

And based on the amount of money you pay for ads here and KS, what is your actual COST per visit from each site?

Ya got me on that one boss.... I wouldnt even begin to know where to start that calculation. I know that its cheaper for here... because currently Im not paying to advertise. If you could tell me the formula... Id greatly appreciate it. Im sure it would help me and other out in the future.

Actually this is quite simple to figure out. I don't know the cost of advertising on the other site, so let's just use a round figure to work with.

Suppose it costs you $10 per month and you got 125 visits in that one month. Each of those visits costs you 8 cents.

Now for this site, the cost of advertising is $0 per month, so those 53 visits in that month costs you nothing at all. Zip. Nada. You get those visits free just for the minimal effort of placing a free ad on this site. The Contributing membership is not a requirement for being able to post ads here, so it doesn't even fit into the equation.

As for the general suggestion of allowing more bumps of those ads, or making it much easier to do those bumps, I dunno, but I think in the long run it would actually be hurtful to the classifieds sections. If someone could bump any of their ads once per day and they were to post 25 classified ads in any one section, then each day they would completely flood that section by bumping their own ads to push all the rest of them out of the first page. So we would eventually just have a bumping war among everyone posting ads. And what would likely happen is that viewing would drop off rapidly as people just got tired of seeing the same old ads repeatedly showing up on the first page every single day here. Not to mention that I would get inundated with gripe-o-grams complaining about this very practice.

So while on the surface and from your perspective having the ability to bump more of your ads might be a labor saving device, I really have to look beyond that a bit to consider what would actually be best for this site. And in my opinion, allowing the classifieds to become old hat to viewers because of the same stale ads being bumped every single day just doesn't seem like it would be in everyone's best interests.

So relisting ads takes time and work? Well, I'm sorry, but no one said that trying to sell your products was going to be easy. If the ad you placed did not get the results you wanted then perhaps a new ad trying to offer them a different light might be better then just thinking that by shoving them in front of everyone constantly will get the results you want.

Offhand, I think the number of bumps per member level I have instituted is a fair compromise between what most people want and what I think is healthy for the classifieds. Personally, I WANT variety and new ads placed in the classifieds, because I think that is what will attract potential buyers here. And the more potential buyers, the more value advertisers may see in offering their products here. And so on, and so on, in a positive feedback loop that will build up traffic coming to the classifieds. Overuse of bumping, in my opinion, will actually be destructive to this goal in the long run, and as such, I would prefer to not make that easier to take place.

 

[tinmantribe5]

Wow Im sorry is this all basically a member that will shell out 100.00 dollars in loyalty money to kingsnake but is undecided on a stinkin 25.00 fauna true membership fee? you said you will maybe shell out 25.00,I say quit bitching about a basket full of fun that you get for free right now dude!

 

[KelliH]

Wow Im sorry is this all basically a member that will shell out 100.00 dollars in loyalty money to kingsnake but is undecided on a stinkin 25.00 fauna true membership fee? you said you will maybe shell out 25.00,I say quit bitching about a basket full of fun that you get for free right now dude!

Loyalty money? No, you have to pay to post classifieds on kingsnake, which is why people pay the fee.

 

[Southern Wolf]

Since what has been free doesn't seem to be appreciated, how about if there was no signature area allowed for noncontributing members and say a limited number of classifieds per week without any bumping.

If you want to get into a pissing match... we can take it to hell. I had an idea... and ran it by Rich via PM... he asked me to post it here.

I dont know how you can come off and say anything is NOT appreciated. In business you try and come up with new ideas on how to do stuff that MIGHT....just might set you apart from everyone else.

And since apparently you dont like to read ideas that MIGHT be contrary to your own... here's an idea. UTILIZE THE IGNORE BUTTON in your control panel.

 

[Southern Wolf]

Rich... thanks for the math lesson.

I see where your coming from and I can respect that. It does make alot of sense. Apparently thinking outside of the box is frowned upon by a few members here because they got their panties all up in a bunch.... mainly over doing what you asked me to do. So maybe I will just fall in line like a bunch of sheep.


NAAAAAA.... that aint ever gonna happen

Thanks again for the consideration.

 

[Southern Wolf]

Wow Im sorry is this all basically a member that will shell out 100.00 dollars in loyalty money to kingsnake but is undecided on a stinkin 25.00 fauna true membership fee? you said you will maybe shell out 25.00,I say quit bitching about a basket full of fun that you get for free right now dude!

Loyalty Money????

Loyalty how..... because I pay to advertise elsewhere. Aside from the classifieds section... I dont post ANYWHERE on KS. How is that loyalty? I actually do contribute over here.

Lets talk about loyalty.

You've been a member here since Nov 06 and only have 163 posts.
I've been a member here since Sep 08 with 614 posts.

Who's more loyal to Fauna.... I can tell you this much... you may have dropped a little coin... but I have put in more time here and contributed more.

Still want to talk about loyalty?