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Potential Refund Issue Arising, Looking for Advice/Opinions.

Ryan, you said YOURSELF that you would have given him his money back if you had it....and that was AFTER you found out that he was in Canada. And if he HAD been still seeing ads for the snakes, he knew you hadn't sold them yet....therefore knew you didn't have the money, and was polite enough not to keep bugging you for it. He only asked you for it when he no longer saw the ads.....and most likely assumed that you had then sold them.

As Clay said......unless you specifically stated differently BEFORE money ever changed hands, since he did not get his snakes, it is still HIS money....which probably sould never have been spent by you in the first place until the man had what he paid for.
 
Hey, just in the last year, I sent deposits to 2 people that I had to back out of because of different things changing. I didn't get my money back and I fully understand why. It was my fault, not theirs and I don't expect them to bend over backwards because I acted hastily. It's not their problem. I lost more than $500. I'm not complaining. And I haven't heard back from this guy either so obviously he knows he screwed up. Thanks for the feedback. I have my answer. Carry on.
 
Ryan..........I really understand your frustration, and I understand what you are trying to say. But you have to realize, unless you specifically stated no shipping to Canada before the money changed hands, it's not HIS problem that you won't do it. Whether it sucks or not. And it still doesn't change the fact that you initially said you would give him his money back, and the fact that you spent the money before the deal was completed.
 
I think the simplest question is, "what did you do, for that guy, to earn his $500?"

It looks like you know what the right thing to do is, and you were willing to do that, at least until it might become inconvenient for you to do the right thing, at which point you decided to find an excuse to not do the right thing. That is really sad, IMO.

Thanks for the feedback. I have my answer. Carry on.
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I have my answer, too. Thanks for posting this and advising us about your practices.
 
Here goes, he emailed me back in July and said he was interested and wanted the snakes shipped to upstate NY. We began talking about everything and on the second or third day after initial contact he sent me the money to hold them and was going to pay them off over a short period of time. I can't remember exactly how long. I told him to consider them sold and took down the ads.
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Ryan,

Is there somewhere in writing that states his down payment is a non-refundable deposit? No one wants to throw $500 in the air, just put yourself in his shoes. You spent the money before delivering the animals and then you traded the animals for something else. How do you expect anyone to answer to that?

Then a day or 2 after sending the money he mentions being in Canada and I was confused. After realizing he was in Canada, right over the border, we got into the whole issue of customs and problem with shipping over the border...many different subjects. He was more concerned than I was. I said I could try shipping them and we'll see what happens but he was actually the one who didn't want to chance it. He tried contacting FedEx locations in NY to see if they could hold the package there and he could make the drive to pick it up, things like that. This was 4 months ago. I don't remember everything like it just happened.
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It’s understandable that after 4 months you don’t remember (I wouldn’t after two!). That’s why is so important to take a look at the e-mail exchange and/or have him post his version of the deal.

Anyway, he was more the one saying that it wasn't a good idea to transcend borders in case something happened. I just brought it to his attention and said that if I had known he was actually in Canada, I would have backed out of the deal immediately. He understood that since I had already sent the money somewhere else and it was his mistake that I couldn't return the money right away, although I would have if I could. I said that if I could find a buyer for them, I would send it back to him.
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Here is where the problem is. You had the snakes and you offered to sell them to pay him back. That shows good business practices and goodwill on your side. He might have taken your word for it and was waiting for you to sell them and send him back his money.

I contacted him twice between July and October asking if he had come up with anything and still wanted them, etc. The last email I remeber from him said he would ask a friend if they might want them and could figure something out that way. I never heard back from him after that and had really pretty much forgotten about it.
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Here’s the other problem. You received the payment, kept the snakes, and forgot about it? There was a $500 down payment on the snakes, which you offered to sell to return his money!

I figured it was pretty much understood that he made a mistake. He wasn't pushy about anything at all.
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You figured that because he wasn’t pushy he was dropping the issue and forgetting you owed him either $500 or the snakes?

Over 3 months, I didn't find another buyer and finally traded them.
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Sorry, but in MHO this was a big no-no. You were not supposed to get rid of the snakes until everything was squared away with him.

Then he emails out of nowhere saying that he hasn't seen any ads for them lately and wants his money now. It just seems like he wants something all of a sudden and thinks he can come collect from me.
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He wants what he paid for or his money back. Is that unreasonable? For all we know he could’ve had problems in getting in touch with you, that’s why is so important to hear his side of the story. Did you notify him of this thread He can contact Rich to post for free.

I had pretty much forgotten about it and thought we had already reached an understanding.
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You thought you both had reached and understanding, but what was he thinking. Was the understanding that you get to keep the money and the snakes?

I personally don't feel I owe him anything. Just wanted to see how other people would handle the situation.
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It seems you had made up your mind before posting in here. Unless we hear from him corroborating everything, acknowledging his mistake, and releasing you from any responsibility my opinion is that you either owe him the money or the snakes. The snakes are gone.

Again, as you say this is just how I would handle the situation and by no means I’m suggesting is the way it should be done. But, you asked for input, and there were my 2 cents…

Regards
 
At this point, I've offered him credit toward something else. If he's not interested in that, I will figure something else out. I was looking for other opinions to help me sort through what to do. I appreciate the feedback. This will be handled properly to reach some conclusion that suits us both.
 
If you want to "handle the situation properly", as you nebulously state, you will quit looking for excuses, and refund the guy's money.

BTW, have you informed him of this thread yet?
 
At this point, I've offered him credit toward something else.
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Sounds like a reasonable solution, except, how are you going to get the animals to him, if it was such a problem before?

I have shipped several times to customers that live in Canada near the border. The packages get shipped close to the border and the customer picks them up and drives back across the border to Canada. As long as they have an itemized list, with values, of what they have, it's no big deal
 
Just remember your own words Ryan:

This is how I treat ALL of my customers. Chip hit it right on the head. When you're satisfied with something, you tell a few. When you're dissatisfied you tell a thousand. Remember that I am not hated on this board because of my customer service. I'm hated because of the things I've said. That's it. Which I have finally decided not to do anymore and start reflecting the reputation that I deserve and try to shed the one that, yes, I have helped to create for myself. Thanks Chip. I greatly appreciate the kind, honest words and vote of confidence.
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This is a very small community by comparison...
 
good going....

That's about the only thing I would have offered myself.... people who try to manipulate transactions or lie after terms have been set make handling situations very hard. I probably would have offered him a credit towards a purchase shipped to a United States destination only. Otherwise charged him extra for international freight, fees. If the customer did not want to accept this or felt it was not sufficient I guess he would be out of luck, but of course it all depends on who the seller is and their stated terms. He's lucky you did not have a non-refundable deposit clause posted, either way I am sure this person wont attempts something like this again.
 
It was my fault for NOT having set terms. And I had him mixed up with someone else. I had a few details confused. We have agreed that I will refund 75%. He's not a bad guy and I don't ever want to be perceived as one either so I will do what I can to keep a customer happy, even if it is inconvenient for me. I'd be upset losing that much money too. These things just come along once in awhile. As long as I give it back, nothing can be said about my business practices, so that's the easiest way to go. Thanks for everyone's input. Ryan.
 
Customer always right

Ryan,

Glad to see you do the right thing. It doesn't matter if it's the customers fault or not, regardless of what they did(short of voilence) they are always right. The big difference between a successful business and unsuccessful business is how they handle the problems that invariably pop up. Again glad to see you do whats right.


Andrew Potts
 
Huh?

RyanT said:
And I had him mixed up with someone else. I had a few details confused.
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I'm confused also. Now you're saying the guy in your original post was not the guy who gave you 500? What details did you have confused? Your post begs more questions than it answers.
 
It was my fault for NOT having set terms. And I had him mixed up with someone else. I had a few details confused. We have agreed that I will refund 75%. He's not a bad guy and I don't ever want to be perceived as one either so I will do what I can to keep a customer happy, even if it is inconvenient for me. I'd be upset losing that much money too. These things just come along once in awhile. As long as I give it back, nothing can be said about my business practices, so that's the easiest way to go. Thanks for everyone's input. Ryan.
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Ryan,

If you say so we will have to take your word for it. But in all honesty and in order to give greater credibility to your story it would’ve been very important to notify this person of this thread and have him post his side. Ritchie makes a good point, now we don’t know what really happened. You had him confused with someone else and now you are going to refund 75%? You lost me too.
 
I had the exact details mixed up. This guy was one of 3 people over about a 3 month period to send a deposit then disappear. He actually sent FULL payment for part of a group. I got confused and thought he just sent a deposit too but he had actually sent the full amount for what he wanted to purchase. It's being worked out and I'm sending his money in about a week. Thanks for the advice, but Jesus you guys are like my mother sometimes. Ask for a little help and you think that gives you the go ahead to keep pestering for every detail of my life. Haha.
 
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