Prehistoricpets?????????

[chondrogal]

Chino

Tony, I do KNOW how difficult it is to keep animal odors down, with too many years experience in the animal industry. I know that my post "came out of nowhere" and it's kind of like an OSHA inspector showing up unannounced.

I will add, the younger carpet is the ONLY snake I saw which looked pretty heavily infested to me. Just didn't like where I saw it at, I know it's not reasonable to expect EVERY animal to be in perfect condition when working with such a large quantity of any species. It's what we do with the one's that are in less than excellent condition. Thought I saw a price on the green trees, too much to remember! but, I really hope they will do well for you.

Mistaken idendity is part of why I stopped in! I had seen Prehistoric Pets ads on KS and didn't realize I was stopping in a completely different establishment.... until reading this thread! I had seen some rather thin gtps advertised by them in the not too distant past, but realize that pix can also be deceiving so was checking for myself.

I was hoping to find a thermostat, Helix, Apple type when stopping in. I thought since you were a "specialty" shop you might have these available. I didn't see anything "new" or any expanded lines of products. So, just basic selection... NOW have to say there is nothing wrong with carrying only the basic items either. Product that just sits on the shelf doesn't do a business any good either. So, sorry, about the way my comment on products stocked came across. Nothing wrong, just nothing special... IMO.

Major facelift/remodel is going to be a huge project and I'm glad I don't have to face a job like that. It is a very large place, devoted strictly to reptiles and it's nice having a different place to visit from time to time to see what's available. I'll look forward to coming back and seeing the changes.

I hoped my original post would serve more as an "eye-opener" and was not intended to be spiteful in any way and more of a way to see what "mystery shoppers" see and hopefully inspire the shop owners (who I knew read this board at the time I posted it) to make a change or two for their own benefit. Sometimes we need a kick in the butt to get things going... the employee cold shoulder in store could have been attributed to poor timing on my part and will give credit to whoever answered the phone inquiry for driving instructions to get there. Friendly, accurate and got me there in no time!!

Since the two businesses are fairly closely located geographically, I'm wondering if changing the business name was something you considered to remove confusion. I wish ALL pet businesses to be shining examples of what is GOOD about our industry. I have no reason to believe you have any other intentions either. It did appear to me to be a store with the potential to "slide" downhill and I am glad to be wrong, thank you for reading with open mind.

 

[Dr Owens]

You can test them for IBD. I can give you the website that links you to info on blood tests. I can also give you the website to the vet. You may call that vet about blood tests. They do do the tests and it's very expensive. I was hurting for a few months in order to catch up to bills. Tests where about $400.

Here is the site that states that you can do blood tests.
http://www.anapsid.org/ibd.html

And the vets website:
http://www.wrightvet.com

I hope this helps.

Sorry Cliff, but you're wrong.

The only way to definitively test for IBD is by tissue biopsy. A common tissue used is brain tissue and can only be biopsied on necropsy (liver, kidney, and GI tissues are also commonly used) . However, in the last few years it has been shown that IBD could be diagnosed based on a liver biopsy which can be taken under general anesthesia. However, there is no blood test for IBD.

The reference that you cited doesn't even say that there is a blood test. What it says is this:

Acutely affected snakes had leukocytosis, relative lymphocytosis, lower total protein and globulin values, and significantly higher SGOT values than did chronically affected snakes.

This is nothing more than a comparison between acutely infected snakes and chronically infected snakes. A comparison is not even made to uninfected snakes. In other words, absolutely NO definitive conclusions can be drawn from this statement.

Apparently you didn’t read your own reference very well because it even states:

To determine the actual presence or absence of inclusion bodies requires biopsies of organ tissue for analysis.

You can't make the diagnosis of inclusion body disease without seeing inclusion bodies on microscopy. (I can't believe that I actually had to explain that...)

While it is believed that IBD might be caused be a retrovirus (and there is some evidence to support this theory), it still hasn’t been proven yet. In other words, the causative agent involved in IBD has yet to be identified. It is impossible to develop a blood test for a virus when you don’t even know what virus you’re testing for.

I say all of that to say this…your story doesn’t line up. I’m not calling you a liar (yet), but you certainly aren’t giving us an accurate story. The blood work did not come back positive for IBD…because it couldn’t have. You did not test your entire collection for IBD…because that would have been impossible without doing liver biopsies on every animal…and we all know that didn’t happen.

When you fabricate stories on the BOI in order to try to discredit someone, all you end up doing is discrediting yourself. I can’t imagine why anyone would put an ounce of faith in anything that you have said here considering your lack of truthfulness (most people call this lying).

So Cliff…what’s your motivation here? Why are you making up stories in order to try to smear Prehistoric Pet’s name?

 

[Dr Owens]

Please note that the question in the original post of this topic was concerning Prehistoric Pets in Fountain Valley, CA. In an effort to avoid confusion, discussions concerning Prehistoric Pets in Chino, CA would be better served in a seperate topic as they are two completely different companies.

Mr. Alles, you are welcome to respond to Cathy's last post if you wish.

 

[Ken Foose]

Jay, I of course knew there was not blood test for IBD. I was just hoping someone else would pick up the line and call him a lier (almost)lol. This person is so full of it that it's not even funny. I would sure love to see him try to prove his lies to us now. Take care

 

[TooManyBurmese]

Feel free to move this if appropriate, but I wanted to sneak this in while it was actively being discussed.

Is there anyone actually working on IBD research? Is there a fund set up? A website of scientists perhaps? If so I would like to donate to them and maybe help them out to speed up the research. It seems, sadly, that a lot of reptile related ailments are overlooked simply due to the "taboo" of owning reptiles. If there is such a group working on IBD research I think we should all chip in and get this horrid disease's secrets out in the open.

Unfortunately Seamus' good friend Kaplan is the only "readily" available site with a lot of "information" (note the quotes!) out there. Do a simple search and anapsid pops up all over...

If someone has information please email me, as it may not be appropriate in this thread and I don't want any warning points

 

[blu93stang]

Ok guys, I'm no lier here. The vet did the blood test after she was put down. They found that she had spinal meninjitus, and parisites in her fecal. The vet was studying IBD during the time and told us that she MAY have it, but she had to do a necropsy in order to find this out. Yes the vet did jump to the conclusions, but she was right after the surgury.

 

[blu93stang]

PLUS I'm not smearing and bad news about this store. I like there store and there set up. But I have no idea how this snake I got back was infected by this illness. The people at the store are nice and are great to work deals with. They where nice enought to send my snake back, and I was happy about that. I wasn't stating that this snake possibly had gotten this illness from them. She either had it before I had her, or she possibly got it from someone handling an animal that had IBD at a local pet store and got her illness from there.

 

[Boavoyage]

Who are you to be posting sh!t on my threads like this. that has Nothing to do with my hets. Next time keep your 2 cents to yourself and don't muck with people you don't know sh!t about.

Clif

Clif,
You really have some class, don't you????

 

[Boavoyage]

BTW,
That e-mail I got from him after posted on the below link
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=49275&perpage=5&pagenumber=1

 

[Dr Owens]

Let's call a spade a spade...

Ok guys, I'm no lier here.

Call yourself what you like, but the evidence speaks for itself. People who lie earn the title “liar.” Here are a few examples of where you’ve proven yourself a liar:

First you said:

Then when I got my female back plus the cash I sent to them, about a few weeks later, my hogg was put down due to IBD. She came back to me sick…

Now you say:

But I have no idea how this snake I got back was infected by this illness.

And:

I wasn't stating that this snake possibly had gotten this illness from them. She either had it before I had her, or she possibly got it from someone handling an animal that had IBD at a local pet store and got her illness from there.

You also said:

Anyway they said the blood work was positive for IBD and Both sets of blood test they did they came back the same.

And:

I had blood , fecal, and a necropsy done by The Write Veternary Clinic In Bethlehem Pa…All of the Tests came back POSITIVE for IBD.

Now you say:

The vet did the blood test after she was put down. They found that she had spinal meninjitus, and parisites in her fecal.

And:

The vet was studying IBD during the time and told us that she MAY have it, but she had to do a necropsy in order to find this out. Yes the vet did jump to the conclusions, but she was right after the surgury.

Sorry Cliff, but you’re not even a good liar.

Btw…is it possible that you have some sort of reading comprehension problem? I have to ask because you obviously didn’t understand a word of Melissa Kaplan’s article on IBD, plus you still are saying that the vet tested the blood for IBD when I have already very clearly explained how IBD is diagnosed. (Truth be told, the fact that you would even quote Melissa Kaplan speaks volumes about your herp knowledge.)

I am reminded of one of Forest Gump’s more famous quotes…


You said:

DO NOT DEAL WITH THEM...that's my experince....I don't like them, and will never deal with them ever again.

Now you’re saying:

PLUS I'm not smearing and bad news about this store. I like there store and there set up.

And:

They where nice enought to send my snake back, and I was happy about that.

So which is it? Were you lying then or now? Or are you just hoping that if you say something nice that you’ll be left alone and not be called out on any more of your inconsistencies (aka lies)? Do you actually think that it’s acceptable to come onto a site like the BOI and tell lies about a company without a shred of evidence to back up your allegations?

Let’s see the copies of the lab work. Let’s see the copies of the necropsy report. Oh wait…you said that you might not have them after you moved…how convenient. I'll tell you what, go back and get copies of the reports from your vet. She'll still have the reports in her records. Of course, I doubt that you'll do that because I doubt that your boa ever had IBD. That too was probably a lie...just like everything else you've posted.

I normally don’t get involved in these sorts of “discussions” on the BOI, but when I see someone posting the kind of garbage about a company like Cliff is posting here, I can’t help but speak up and say something. Cliff, your behavior is inexcusable and speaks volumes of your character…or lack thereof. "Pathetic" might be an accurate description...



"Stupid is as stuipd does, sir." - Forest Gump

 

[Ken Harbart]

1) Currently, there is no such thing as a blood assay that can conclusively diagnose IBD.

2) To answer Danni's question, Dr Elliot Jacobson at the University of Florida is the man you're seeking. He's the leading authority on IBD and OPMV research. The last I talked to the good Dr, research as at a virtual standstill due to funding. Shoot me an email, and I'll put you in touch with him.

 

[blu93stang]

I have one more thing to say Everyone I have posted with on here is a bunch of ignorant jerks who have nothing better to do then argue with each other. This is pretty sad . And you didn't experiance what I did with my snake .I'm sorry I tried to explain my experiance to you.

 

[Dr Owens]

I have one more thing to say Everyone I have posted with on here is a bunch of ignorant jerks who have nothing better to do then argue with each other. This is pretty sad .

No Cliff...you are the one who has demonstrated himself to be ignorant. This post simply serves as more evidence as to the caliber of person you seem to be. Thanks for the confirmation.

It's unfortunate that you had problems with your snake, but coming on here and making up stories about what happened, and leveling false accusations (lies) against a good company is not merely inappropriate...it is WRONG.

btw...I knew that you wouldn't get those records from your vet.
(They don't even exist do they?)

 

[meretseger]

IBD tests also cost several hundred bucks, or at least that's what my vet charges. If I paid for an IBD test, I'd personally have the receipt laminated and framed.

(How is meningitis diagnosed?)

Erin Benner

 

[Dr Owens]

(How is meningitis diagnosed?)

I have never heard of it being diagnosed in a living snake. In humans, it is diagnosed by spinal tap. As far as I know, you can't do a spinal tap on a snake. It can't be diagnosed based on blood or fecal test results.

Yet another hole in Cliff's "story."

 

[Ken Harbart]

Any vet who tells you that IBD can be conclusively diagnosed via a blood assay is either ignorant or lacking in integrity. The fact remains that there is currently no blood test for IBD.

I've personally dealt with a snake that was poshumously diagnosed, and I have also communicated with Dr Jacobson on the subject of IBD. As I stated before, Dr Jacobson is generally considered to be the foremost authority on this affliction.

 

[TooManyBurmese]

Thanks Mr Harbart

 

[Ken Harbart]

Thanks Mr Harbart

Hey now... there'll be none of that "mister" stuff here!

 

[blu93stang]

THIS IS ALL I HAVE TO SAY F*CK YOU AND YOUR BULL SH*t YOU have no life if all you have to do is mess with me . SO GET A LIFE Bon and DR. Owens And you people can't even copy my name right. IF YOU LOOK YOU ALL KEEP PUTTING 2 f's in my name there's only 1. learn how to read and write people's names right if you're going to talk sht you retards!!!

 

[Ken Harbart]

Well, I think that reply pretty much shows a lack of character, so congrats on being the first person that I can think of to go from zero to suspended in the course of just one reply.