Protestors - Protesting to the wrong people.

[Ken Harbart]

"We support our troops" (aka lies of the peaceniks)

No tresspasing and we mean it hippie.
VANDENBERG AIR FORCE BASE, Calif. (AP) - Security forces at Vandenberg Air Force Base are allowed to use "deadly force" in some cases if any anti-war demonstrators infiltrate the military complex, officials said.
Some anti-war activists have announced plans to trespass in hopes of disturbing Vandenberg's mission and to vandalize sensitive equipment they believe helps the war effort.

Vandenberg officials revealed Friday that military security police have always been allowed to shoot to kill, if necessary, to protect base residents and equipment.

It is more critical now that people understand the severity of that policy, a base spokeswoman said.

"This is not fun and games anymore," said Maj. Stacee Bako. "We're living in post 9-11. We don't know what's going to happen with the war effort in Iraq."

Military police will use their judgment, experience and training to determine if lethal force is necessary, she said.

"It's impossible for us to determine what their intent is," she said. "Are they protesters? Are there terrorists in that group and (do) they plan on killing everyone on base?"

The policy will not deter protesters, said Peter Lumsdaine of the Vandenberg Action Coalition, one of the organizers of the planned trespassing.

"I think it does underline that people in the nonviolent resistance movement are willing to take some risks," Lumsdaine said.

AP-ES-03-15-03 2029EST

 

[Ken Harbart]

Who's funding the protests???

SEATTLE — Large anti-war protests come with a hefty price tag.

Money is needed to rent or buy stages, sound systems, permits and portable toilets, and tabs often run as high as $200,000 per demonstration — much more than the average grassroots peace group will ever have in its coffers.

So who is picking up the tab?

"The major anti-U.S. government demonstrations are organized by people who have been around for a long time, particularly the Workers World Party, which has existed for more than 30 years now and has always supported the enemies of the United States," said Herbert Romerstein, a retired agent of the U.S. Information Agency.

The Workers World Party describes itself as Marxist in nature.

Officially, protest organizers are groups such as Not in Our Name and International A.N.S.W.E.R., but the demonstration's sponsors have long histories of backing anti-government causes.

Not in Our Name is financed by the Interreligious Foundation for Community Organization. I.F.C.O. is a million-dollar-a-year non-profit that supports Cuban dictator Fidel Castro and once sponsored a group headed by Sami Al-Arian — the University of South Florida professor being charged with fundraising for terrorist organizations Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad.

A.N.S.W.E.R. is an offshoot of the International Action Center, which intelligence officials say is a front for the Worker's World Party. A.N.S.W.E.R. canceled a scheduled interview with Fox News but a worker in the Seattle field office acknowledged there are ties.

"There are some Workers World Party members in A.N.S.W.E.R.," said A.N.S.W.E.R. coordinator Jim McMahan.

The International Action Center was founded by former U.S. Attorney General Ramsey Clark, who is a longtime public face of the anti-war movement.

The Workers World Party supports North Korea's brutal regime and I.F.C.O. defied U.N. sanctions when it made a trip to Iraq in the mid-1990s. Now, both are sugar daddies to the anti-war movement.

"The American people have the right to know whether stooges of [North Korean leader] Kim Jong Il or Castro or Saddam Hussein are involved in these demonstrations," Romerstein said.

The groups bankrolling these protests say they're spending their money the way donors would want, and protest organizers say it doesn't matter where the money comes from — the message is their own.

Others wonder if knowing the fringe politics of the people paying the bills might keep some demonstrators off the streets.

But anti-war organizers — regardless of their financial backing — are plugging ahead and are actually planning more aggressive action that they say will be hard to ignore, despite the fact that the United States is on the brink of war with Iraq.

"People will step up their actions, there will be active civil disobedience," said Simona Sharoni of United for Peace in Thurston County, Wash.

Direct Action, a San Francisco Bay-area group of anti-war veterans, has been drawing up their own battle plan should there be a war.

They say they will shut down 70 targets in San Francisco alone, including power plants, water systems, the Federal Reserve, oil companies, the Pacific Exchange and the Transamerica Building.

And their hit list goes beyond economic targets.

Some protesters are promising to chain themselves to fences at schools and day care centers so working parents will have to stay home from their jobs. Organizers say this will give others a chance to contemplate how war affects the children of Iraq.

"The civilians in Iraq are losing their lives and one day of work is worth a thousand lives," said Leone Reinbold, an anti-war activist in San Francisco.

Reinbold helped organize the World Trade Organization protest in Seattle three years ago. She blames the violence and damage on anarchists from the radical fringe, not the mainstream demonstrators.

All the same, police departments from coast to coast know that keeping things peaceful won't be easy.

"We know based on the last one that each preceding demonstration has been a little bit more volatile than the one before," said Deputy Chief Greg Suhr of the San Francisco Police Department.

Some protestors are vowing to bring traffic to a standstill, as they recently did on a Seattle bridge. But many wonder if paralyzing the morning commute and engaging in similar disruptions will win converts or make enemies of people losing patience with their tactics.

 

[hanoverherps]

Right on guys!

I am not military, but do have friends and family that are and have been. It really kills me to see all the people here in the states and abroad protesting the way they do. One of the things that really gets me is this... Most of these say they want peace right? Then when you see the headlines, you hear about how the protesters turned violent and hear about all the arrests being made! They want peace, yeah right!
Nobody, including myself, wants to see or hear about anyone being killed, good or bad. When the protesters want to get out there and protest, there's one thing I wish they could see. Watching a special the other night on a news channel, they showed some of the atrocities the government of Iraq has committed. The one that really got me was the mustard gas attack they did on a Kurdish town. They showed the aftermath with all the bodies laying about. The images of the mothers with their babies in tow on their chests laying dead on the ground hit the hardest.
The leaders/government of Iraq have committed so many crimes against humanity they must be stopped. They did not want to voluntarily step down and they did not want to peacfully disarm. Therefore they must be stopped. The need for force was imminent, as they left no other choice.


Bob

 

[Ken Harbart]

Make no mistake about it, peace is not the agenda of the anti-American protesters...

Explosives found on S.F. protest route
By Michele R. Marcucci
and Sean Holstege - STAFF WRITERS


Saturday, March 22, 2003 - 200 arrested in quieter anti-war action; Molotov cocktails discovered San Francisco police arrested hundreds of people during a second day of antiwar protests Friday, and even as unrest subsided from Thursday's traffic-clogging disruptions authorities found something more ominous.

At 11 a.m. Friday, police found a duffel bag containing a dozen Molotov cocktails at 11th Street, followed up by the discovery an 1 1/2hours later on Market Street of a second bag with rags and lighter fluid.

The second bag was near the Four Seasons Hotel, in the heart of Thursday's tensions. San Francisco's special investigations unit was investigating the matter, which was also referred to agents of the FBI and the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms.

Incendiary bombs

"This is unusual. It clearly demonstrates some intention on the part of protesters," SFPD Spokesman Dewayne Tully said, linking the incendiary bombs to demonstrators because during a melee Thursday, police had rocks and bottles thrown at them. After the assault, police began inspecting backpacks, and authorities said they think protesters may have ditched the duffel bags after word of the inspections passed through the crowd.

 

[E2MacPets]

Ken, can you cite the sources for these articles?

I have some people I want to send them to, particularly the one about ANSWER (which I knew, but have been having a hard time finding articles from credible sources to prove it)

 

[Ken Harbart]

Steve, the source for that lasy article was the Oakland Tribune.

Give me some time, and I'll dig up my other sources. The admin of the forum they were originally posted in has disabled the search function, so it may take some time.

 

[herpcondo]

I just can't understand the protesting to the degree some of the people Ken has above in his reply above.. What is the deal? Do they think having with intent to use Malatov cocktails shows they are standing for peace,,? I just don't get the whole idea of these militant protestors... I think these people just need something to believe in, and don't really care what it is. this just happens to be the"train in the station" at this time. I am from a line of men who served, bith my grandfathers in WWII one as a nose gunner in a B29, the other served as ground forces in Normandy, and helped to liberate the french. my Father, 2 tours in vietnam flying helis.... and me i served in the reserves, and still may be actived in this conflict yet... i am proud of this country, and will die for it, if it be so,, but are these protestors,,, protesting on the faith that the war is wrong,,, or do they just need a reason to get out in the streets!? my motto still stands......
A Coward can hold a sign, But a Man Holds a gun to defend his countries Freedom!

 

[Ken Harbart]

Here's a current article that mentions ANSWER.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A11085-2003Mar22.html

 

[E2MacPets]

So I tried posting these articles somewhere else... here's how they were recieved:

And I must say that my bull#### detector always goes DING DING DING when someone posts stories without identifying the source. Of course, it appears that the first one is from Fox News or an affilliate, and it's easy to understand why someone might want to hide that if they were trying to come off as unbiased in intent.

gotta love it

 

[Southerncat]

my 2 cents

I have been offline for a few days but have wanted to speak my mind for a few days now. First of all I want to say Thank You to all the men and women in the Armed Forces now and in the past. If had not been for those Brave Souls we as Americans would Not have what we have today.

I live in South Carolina and the other day I had to go to town and there was a few protesters holding their signs up and yelling to the people in the cars. It made me so mad. I wanted to yell at them that if that were so unhappy in the United States to take their @#$ some where else. Those men and women that are fighting over seas are there because they love this country and know that we need them to stand up and fight for ALL of us. I thank God that there are people willing to do that for people they have never met. I cant understand the people of NY that are protesting. Of all the people , they know what its like to feel the terror, pain and destruction that people like Hussein can cause. Do they expect the US and other Nations to just stand by and let this man/men do these awful things to people? If those planes that hit the towers in NY had had chemicals like mustard gas on them then most if not all in NY would have been killed! Is that what they want? I think not!

As for the coward that threw the grenade in the tents of his own men. Was nothing but a coward. Plain and simple. If he didn?t want to fight the he should have not have joined in the first place. I feel he should be held and charged with war crimes. When they do bring this man home they need to put him where no one can see or talk to him or maybe they should just leave him there in Iraq (just my opinion).

When these Brave men and women come they need to be honored like the heroes they are! I have made my mind up that I will do everything in my power to make sure that NO ONE will disgrace, be mean or say ugly things to these great people. These men and women need to be treated like KINGS and Queens as far as I am concerned that is what they are!

Again: TO ALL THOSE WHO HAVE SERVED AND ARE SERVING IN THE ARMED FORCES, THANK YOU AND MAY GOD ALWAYS BE WITH YOU

 

[Southerncat]

opps

forgot to add my name....sorry






Cathy Elrod

 

[Ken Harbart]

Re: opps

forgot to add my name....sorry


Cathy Elrod

That's okay Cathy... names are only required on the Board of Inquiry forum.

 

[Ken Harbart]

Gotta love them wacky protestors...

 

[Ken Harbart]

http://www.opinion.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml

I was a naive fool to be a human shield for Saddam
The Sunday Telegraph ^ | March 23, 2003 | Daniel Pepper


I wanted to join the human shields in Baghdad because it was direct action which had a chance of bringing the anti-war movement to the forefront of world attention. It was inspiring: the human shield volunteers were making a sacrifice for their political views - much more of a personal investment than going to a demonstration in Washington or London. It was simple - you get on the bus and you represent yourself.

So that is exactly what I did on the morning of Saturday, January 25. I am a 23-year-old Jewish-American photographer living in Islington, north London. I had travelled in the Middle East before: as a student, I went to the Palestinian West Bank during the intifada. I also went to Afghanistan as a photographer for Newsweek.

The human shields appealed to my anti-war stance, but by the time I had left Baghdad five weeks later my views had changed drastically. I wouldn't say that I was exactly pro-war - no, I am ambivalent - but I have a strong desire to see Saddam removed.

We on the bus felt that we were sympathetic to the views of the Iraqi civilians, even though we didn't actually know any. The group was less interested in standing up for their rights than protesting against the US and UK governments.

I was shocked when I first met a pro-war Iraqi in Baghdad - a taxi driver taking me back to my hotel late at night. I explained that I was American and said, as we shields always did, "Bush bad, war bad, Iraq good". He looked at me with an expression of incredulity.

As he realised I was serious, he slowed down and started to speak in broken English about the evils of Saddam's regime. Until then I had only heard the President spoken of with respect, but now this guy was telling me how all of Iraq's oil money went into Saddam's pocket and that if you opposed him politically he would kill your whole family.

It scared the hell out of me. First I was thinking that maybe it was the secret police trying to trick me but later I got the impression that he wanted me to help him escape. I felt so bad. I told him: "Listen, I am just a schmuck from the United States, I am not with the UN, I'm not with the CIA - I just can't help you."

Of course I had read reports that Iraqis hated Saddam Hussein, but this was the real thing. Someone had explained it to me face to face. I told a few journalists who I knew. They said that this sort of thing often happened - spontaneous, emotional, and secretive outbursts imploring visitors to free them from Saddam's tyrannical Iraq.

I became increasingly concerned about the way the Iraqi regime was restricting the movement of the shields, so a few days later I left Baghdad for Jordan by taxi with five others. Once over the border we felt comfortable enough to ask our driver what he felt about the regime and the threat of an aerial bombardment.

"Don't you listen to Powell on Voice of America radio?" he said. "Of course the Americans don't want to bomb civilians. They want to bomb government and Saddam's palaces. We want America to bomb Saddam."

We just sat, listening, our mouths open wide. Jake, one of the others, just kept saying, "Oh my God" as the driver described the horrors of the regime. Jake was so shocked at how naive he had been. We all were. It hadn't occurred to anyone that the Iraqis might actually be pro-war.

The driver's most emphatic statement was: "All Iraqi people want this war." He seemed convinced that civilian casualties would be small; he had such enormous faith in the American war machine to follow through on its promises. Certainly more faith than any of us had.

Perhaps the most crushing thing we learned was that most ordinary Iraqis thought Saddam Hussein had paid us to come to protest in Iraq. Although we explained that this was categorically not the case, I don't think he believed us. Later he asked me: "Really, how much did Saddam pay you to come?"

It hit me on visceral and emotional levels: this was a real portrayal of Iraq life. After the first conversation, I completely rethought my view of the Iraqi situation. My understanding changed on intellectual, emotional, psychological levels. I remembered the experience of seeing Saddam's egomaniacal portraits everywhere for the past two weeks and tried to place myself in the shoes of someone who had been subjected to seeing them every day for the last 20 or so years.

Last Thursday night I went to photograph the anti-war rally in Parliament Square. Thousands of people were shouting "No war" but without thinking about the implications for Iraqis. Some of them were drinking, dancing to Samba music and sparring with the police. It was as if the protesters were talking about a different country where the ruling government is perfectly acceptable. It really upset me.

Anyone with half a brain must see that Saddam has to be taken out. It is extraordinarily ironic that the anti-war protesters are marching to defend a government which stops its people exercising that freedom.

 

[herpcondo]

I sure wish they had used a few more bunker busters on the very first strike,,, maybe if they had our troops would be coming home,,, i feel the pain in my soul when i see the casualties of this conflict, i am inactive in the guard,but i could be called up anytime, and but for the grace of God that could be me,,, Godspeed with the troops!

 

[Glenn Bartley]

This is a little something a friend sent me tonight. Thought it might go good here. It is about the American fighting man, but I suppose that henceforth it applies to the American fighting woaman too. It is a new world, now that women are in combat. I mean no disrespect to our fighting women, I just copied and pasted this as it came to me. Although they may have a bit of catching up to do historically, they among women, who choose to serve, are included in this henceforth as much as are the men. I guess that the guys outnumber the gals by quite a huge margin, so I kept it in the form in which it was sent to me, but I give those fighting gals a lot of credit too...

****************************************************The average age of the military man is 19 years. He is a short haired, tight-muscled kid who, under normal circumstances is considered by society as half man, half boy. Not yet dry behind the ears, not old enough to buy a beer, but old enough to die for his country.

He never really cared much for work and he would rather wax his own car than wash his father's; but he has never collected unemployment either.

He's a recent High School graduate; he was probably an average student, pursued some form of sport activities, drives a ten year old jalopy, and has a steady girlfriend that either broke up with him when he left, or swears to be waiting when he returns from half a world away.

He listens to rock and roll or hip-hop or rap or jazz or swing and 155mm Howitzers.

He is 10 or 15 pounds lighter now than when he was at home because he is working or fighting from before dawn to well after dusk.

He has trouble spelling, thus letter writing is a pain for him, but he can field strip a rifle in 30 seconds and reassemble it in less time in the dark.

He can recite to you the nomenclature of a machine gun or grenade launcher and use either one effectively if he must.

He digs foxholes and latrines and can apply first aid like a professional.

He can march until he is told to stop or stop until he is told to march.

He obeys orders instantly and without hesitation, but he is not without spirit or individual dignity.

He is self-sufficient. He has two sets of fatigues: he washes one and wears the other.

He keeps his canteens full and his feet dry.

He sometimes forgets to brush his teeth, but never to clean his rifle.

He can cook his own meals, mend his own clothes, and fix his own hurts. If you're thirsty, he'll share his water with you; if you are hungry, his food. He'll even split his ammunition with you in the midst of battle when you run low.

He has learned to use his hands like weapons and weapons like they were his hands. He can save your life - or take it, because that is his job.

He will often do twice the work of a civilian, draw half the pay and still find ironic humor in it all. He has seen more suffering and death then he should have in his short lifetime.

He has stood atop mountains of dead bodies, and helped to create them.

He has wept in public and in private, for friends who have fallen in combat and is unashamed.

He feels every note of the National Anthem vibrate through his body while at rigid attention, while tempering the burning desire to 'square-away' those around him who haven't bothered to stand, remove their hat, or even stop talking. In an odd twist, day in and day out, far from home, he defends their right to be disrespectful.

Just as did his Father, Grandfather, and Great-grandfather, he is paying the price for our freedom.

Beardless or not, he is not a boy.

He is the American Fighting Man that has kept this country free for over 200 years.

****************************************************

 

[Glenn Bartley]

Ken,

In what city was the photograph taken of the two gentlemen holding the sign about supporting soldiers who shoot their own officers? If NY, well I would like to keep an eye out for the one who was brave enough (or foolish enough) to not wear a mask. I hope to get the opportunity to let him know what I think of his opinion.