Question on albino Boa constrictor strains

[AZ Dragoon]

How many albino boa strains, unrelated genetically, are currently on the market? I remember examining 2 of 4 albino juveniles that John Ruiz had in 1983 (?) and even talked with him a couple of years later about obtaining one of the males on breeding loan, but left the hobby/business the same year to pursue a career in the medical field.

Kevin

 

[AZ Dragoon]

On another note

It seems the market is flooded with albino and hets BC and I am wondering why prices have not fallen drastically? I remember how quickly the value of albino Burmese pythons fell in a relatively short time and will not even go into the albino Lampropeltis getulus and Elaphe guttata and E. obsoleta (Pituophis too) that we all were breeding in the early 80's. It seems that the albino BC are still holding a high market value in comparison. Were these held back from the market for some period of time? The first hets and albinos should have been available in 1986 if not earlier.

Sorry if the questions seem ignorant, but have been away from this community for a number of years and just wishing to catch up a bit.

Kevin

 

[paulh]

As I remember, the first captive bred albino boa constrictors were produced by Pete Kahl in '93 or '94.

What do you define as an albino boa constrictor? I call the Kahl strain and the Sharp strain albinos. They are claimed to be independent mutant genes. But you could, if you want, throw in salmon, orange tail, and a slew of "T-positive albinos".

I'd like to know who has a T-negative albino.

 

[AZ Dragoon]

The Kahl strain and Sharp strains are what I call true albinos, guess these are all there are of albino strains currently available. If Peter Kahl did not produce any albinos until the time indicated, that means they have not been available as long as I assumed. Wonder what happened with the other 3 albinos from the same litter that John Ruiz and partners had back in the 80's? Guess I should have purchased that male John offered me for $15,000 back then (I think Kahl ended up buying it for $25,000!) since it appears that it was the only one to successfully produce offspring. With 3 more albinos out there, however, I did not think it would be a good investment at the time and was going to obtain it on breeding loan only.

Kevin

 

[snakehorse]

breeding albino to albino

I read somewhere that breeding albinos to albinos is "difficult" or maybe not that successful. Is this true? I mean, breeding one strain such as Kahl to the same Kahl strain of homozygous albinos.

 

[paulh]

From what I hear on the forums, a significant number of Kahl strain albinos are born with missing or small eyes on one or both sides. The reason is unknown. My personal opinion is that it is caused by something in the environment, though there may be an interaction between the environment and the biochemistry of the mutant gene. If so, then some day we may figure out the environmental part of the cause and allow for it when breeding these albino snakes. Time will tell whether this is wishful thinking on my part.

 

[CARLiTO_]

From what I hear on the forums, a significant number of Kahl strain albinos are born with missing or small eyes on one or both sides. The reason is unknown. My personal opinion is that it is caused by something in the environment, though there may be an interaction between the environment and the biochemistry of the mutant gene. If so, then some day we may figure out the environmental part of the cause and allow for it when breeding these albino snakes. Time will tell whether this is wishful thinking on my part.

I think it's due to inbreeding.

 

[Lee Herps]

I agree with CARLiTO. I believe inbreeding is the result for deformities.

 

[Lee Herps]

woops! I meant deformities are the result of inbreeding.

 

[M.Dwight]

I'm not so sure the one eyes are from inbreeding. If inbreeding was the cause we would also get a lot of one eyed hets and Pos hets...but we don't. This deformity seems to be attached to this albino gene. There are a lot of inbred species out there like Dums and corn snakes that don't have this deformity. I believe this deformity is inherited from the original albino male that carried the defective gene. Also, many out-crosses have also produced one eyes so inbreeding is a unlikely cause.

 

[paulh]

Some congenital deformities are genetic, and some are not. I can remember the thalidomide babies whose limbs did not develop properly because of the drug their mothers took during pregnancy. I simply think that the jury is still out, and we should not jump to a conclusion without some testing.

 

[M.Dwight]

I'm just a believer in the numbers. After over a decade of us breeding these and many thousands of albinos and hets produced I think the testing has already been done. And the numbers speak for themselves.

 

[crotalusadamanteus]

As I remember, the first captive bred albino boa constrictors were produced by Pete Kahl in '93 or '94.

What do you define as an albino boa constrictor? I call the Kahl strain and the Sharp strain albinos. They are claimed to be independent mutant genes. But you could, if you want, throw in salmon, orange tail, and a slew of "T-positive albinos".

I'd like to know who has a T-negative albino.

I think there are only the two. T- or T+ At least that's what I can gather from what I've read. T+ has the ability to produce Tyrosenese (spelling) and T- dont.


A Z.........there are only the two strains that I know of. Kahl, and Sharpe. They have come up with all these different "designer" albinos, ie snow, sunglow,etc. which are everywhere on the market, but those two remain the original strains of albinism.
Here is my girl from Kahl. F4 from the original. She is now 6 1/2 yrs.
And they have come down in price. I paid 3K for her in 99 Or maybe your seeing Sharpes line. His seem to have a platinum lining or something.

Ciao,
Rick

 

[paulh]

I think there are only the two. T- or T+ At least that's what I can gather from what I've read. T+ has the ability to produce Tyrosenese (spelling) and T- dont.

Too simplistic.

T- albinos are albino because of a nonfunctional tyrosinase enzyme. T+ albinos are albino because something else in the genes and biochemistry isn't working. And that something else could be different things in different T+ albinos.

In species like the lab mouse and (we think) the corn snake, there is at least one mutant gene that produces partly functional tyrosinase. There is melanin, but the animals are lighter than normal.

A couple of years ago I asked Dave Barker whether Sharp or Kahl strain was T-. He didn't know because nobody has tested either strain. Unless there has been a test since, we still do not know. And possibly both strains are T+.

 

[crotalusadamanteus]

Hey, simple works for me, I'm not a Biochemist. Still sounds alot like what i was trying to say though.

In a manner of simplistic speach. From what I've read, T- CANNOT produce melanin. T+ can . In T- it will never happen, in T+ all the right stuff is there, but not connected properly. When the genes, or enzymes, or whatever, start to connect properly, you get varying degrees of melanin showing thru in T+. Like lavender as an example.

Knowing this, it would seem that the visual of the snake itself would be fairly proof positive. Maybe not actual PROOF, but you get what I mean.

But like I said, I'm no Biochemist. So I dont know 100% for sure. But I do find all this stuff interesting, and have been trying to learn more aout it. And all that I have read, and very few contradictions, has lead me to believe this. In simplistic terms of course.


Ciao,
Rick

 

[paulh]

Hey, simple works for me, I'm not a Biochemist. Still sounds alot like what i was trying to say though.

In a manner of simplistic speach. From what I've read, T- CANNOT produce melanin. T+ can . In T- it will never happen, in T+ all the right stuff is there, but not connected properly. When the genes, or enzymes, or whatever, start to connect properly, you get varying degrees of melanin showing thru in T+. Like lavender as an example.

Knowing this, it would seem that the visual of the snake itself would be fairly proof positive. Maybe not actual PROOF, but you get what I mean.

T- cannot produce melanin because of a nonfunctional tyrosinase enzyme.

Some T+ snakes can't produce melanin pigment either. They have functional tyrosinase, and the actual cause of the lack of melanin is unknown. Probably something else is not working right.

Some T+ snakes do produce some melanin, but less than normal. The cause may be a partly functional tyrosinase enzyme. Or something else is wrong. Perhaps a mutant gene causes the pigment cells to produce fewer than normal pigment granules. Or the pigment granules are abnormal somehow.

In my opinion, the T- vs T+ split is like looking at a car that won't run and saying that the cause is either a bad battery or a good battery. If the battery is good, then something else is wrong -- broken wiring, nonfunctioning ignition switch, no gas, etc.

In the black rat snake, there are two albinos, T- and T+. They have been tested. The T- has a nonfunctional tyrosinase enzyme, and something else produces the albino condition in the T+, but we do not know what, yet. We do know that they are caused by different mutant genes.

In boa constrictors, there are two albinos, Kahl strain and Sharp strain. Neither has been tested. They seem to be caused by different mutant genes. They can't both have nonfunctional tyrosinase. I can look at the two and say that neither is normal. But just looking at them will not tell me which has nonfuctional tyrosinase. Maybe both of them have functional tyrosinase and different something elses are broken in each strain.

In other words, we have two cars that will not run, and we know that the conditions result from different causes. Which has a bad battery? Or do both have good batteries? Maybe one has no gas and the other has a bad ignition switch.

You tell me. All I know is that we need more tests to narrow the possibilities.