• Responding to email notices you receive.
    **************************************************
    In short, DON'T! Email notices are to ONLY alert you of a reply to your private message or your ad on this site. Replying to the email just wastes your time as it goes NOWHERE, and probably pisses off the person you thought you replied to when they think you just ignored them. So instead of complaining to me about your messages not being replied to from this site via email, please READ that email notice that plainly states what you need to do in order to reply to who you are trying to converse with.

  • IMPORTANT! PLEASE READ!! About the Google Adsense ads being displayed

    =====================
    Posted 08/15/2025
    =====================


    Yeah, I know. They are a pain in the butt. But they pay the bills to keep my server running. Just a fact of life, I am afraid.

    Want to get rid of them? Simple. Just become a Contributor level member or above and they will be gone. -> Please click HERE."

    Is that too much for me to ask of you to keep this site running? Well, sorry about that. I too wish I could get everything for free. But alas.....

    =====================
    Addendum: 01/10/2026
    =====================


    Google Adsense ad revenue for December, 2025 was just $30 over the cost of the lease for the server running this site. So, in effect, the money providing the incentive for me to continue running this site is coming SOLELY from the paid memberships and sponsorships here. Which honestly ain't much....

question on odds

SPJ

SPJ

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 28, 2002
Messages
7,046
Reaction score
240
Points
63
Age
56
Location
Seymour, CT
If 2 different super fires are bred to a fire and produce no supers but fire looking offspring and if the offspring are bred together and produce no supers, but when bred to a pastel produce animals that look like fireflies, would it be safe to assume the "fire" is not really a fire but some type of highlighter or have the odds just sucked big time?
 
how many animals are we talking? There is always a chance of missing the odds.

If it is a new highlighting gene, you should still be able to make a super, regardless of it being visually different or not.

So I don't think it would be safe to assume either option.
 
Total of 19 babies. No supers. Trying to see if I got burnt on a firefly purchase. Crap that should have been disclosed to me last year.
 
I was thinking new line that isnt compatible with "fire"? But at the same time, odds could really suck on this one...
 
upon rereading this, The claim is there was 2 different super fires (which obviously has a super form), bred to what we could call a "fire". The offspring should still all be fires, regardless of what the "fire" is. So the odds had to of sucked or we have a liar. Only options I can see. 19 babies missing a 1/4 chance, which if my math is right is a .4% chance.
 
I had planned on buying one of the supers from the person I got the firefly from but he isn't selling anything now because he claims these fires don't produce supers. Sounds odd to me but the odds are proving him right. I bought one of the "screwed up" fires X pastel babies and now get told it may not be a firefly. Sucks because I almost sold the "firefly" before deciding to get back into breeding. Now I don't know what the hell I have and am not going to deal with proving a new morph (been down that road and it's not a nice one).
 
Well I guess selling with full disclosure would be acceptable. Do you have any pics of any of the snakes involved?
 
Ohhwataloser said:
upon rereading this, The claim is there was 2 different super fires (which obviously has a super form), bred to what we could call a "fire". The offspring should still all be fires, regardless of what the "fire" is. So the odds had to of sucked or we have a liar. Only options I can see. 19 babies missing a 1/4 chance, which if my math is right is a .4% chance.
Click to expand...

Actually, a fire x super fire should be a 1/2 chance at the super, not 1/4. Fire x fire would give the 1/4 odds.

If all of the babies were fires and only fires out of 2 different females, that means this male is breeding, genetically, as a "normal" and passed on his fire gene to NONE of his offspring.

Now, if we are getting some fires and some fire x mystery gene offspring that are merely hard to distinguish from fires, it gets more interesting. Then we know he's some different gene, genetic and proven, but not in the Black-eyed leucy complex.
 
SirenSanJose said:
Actually, a fire x super fire should be a 1/2 chance at the super, not 1/4. Fire x fire would give the 1/4 odds.
Click to expand...

I was referring to the "fire" x "fire" pairing. I see I could of misunderstood what the 19 babies came from, were they from the super fire x "fire" or the "fire" x "fire"?

I also don't see how he can claim the snake doesn't make a super, when they claim a super was at the beginning of this. Mystery gene or not all of gen 1 should be fires.
 
OP do you have pictures? Also, was the "fire"fly you're trying to prove out the sire or the dam, and were the offspring bred back to the parents, or bred with each other?
 
No supers were produced by pairing the "fire" to unrelated super fires. The fire in question evidently was bought as a new line import fire. The so called "fire X fire" offspring produced no super fires. I bought a baby from the offspring fire X pastel breeding. I will post a photo of that later when I get home. I've requested parent and sib photos and more disclosure from the seller but have not heard back since being told there was a "problem" with the genetics.
 
SPJ said:
No supers were produced by pairing the "fire" to unrelated super fires. The fire in question evidently was bought as a new line import fire. The so called "fire X fire" offspring produced no super fires. I bought a baby from the offspring fire X pastel breeding. I will post a photo of that later when I get home. I've requested parent and sib photos and more disclosure from the seller but have not heard back since being told there was a "problem" with the genetics.
Click to expand...

Something is not adding up with what is being stated. If it is a unrelated gene, there should of been real fire/"fire" and real fires produced.

Male:
Female:
"Fire"​
PercentFractionTraits
50%1/2 "Fire", Fire
50%1/2Fire
SPJ said:
if the offspring are bred together and produce no supers
Click to expand...

Those offspring should still have been able to produced super fires, from the real fire gene. The "fire" is irrelevant.
 
That is why I think I got burnt. Still no reply. Here is the snake in question. Last year in the box and a current one.
 

Attachments

  • IMG_20140624_072113_zpsedvosiix.jpg
    IMG_20140624_072113_zpsedvosiix.jpg
    212.3 KB · Views: 71
  • IMG_20140610_075301_zpsschdhbsx.jpg
    IMG_20140610_075301_zpsschdhbsx.jpg
    250.5 KB · Views: 73
Steve - if I'm understanding your posts correctly, the "import fire" was bred to 2 legit supers. Those babies - all legit fires, by virtue of the super parents - failed to produce supers when bed together. If the story was true up to that point, the lack of super babies from the offspring would be circumstantial; and further breedings should be done. Were you told how many offspring x offspring pairings produced eggs, and how many babies, total, those pairings produced?

For confirmation, the firefly you purchased was produced from offspring x pastel - not import "fire" x pastel - correct?
 
Correct. It's a convoluted history. This baby is from the offspring of the import fire X pastel. I'll break down the clutches from what I was told. The import was bred to 2 different super fires. One clutch was 7 eggs and the other was 6 eggs. No super fires. 2 babies from those clutches were bred and from 6 more eggs, no supers again. The baby pairing is what throws me. I can see the original animal turning out to be fireish but not a true fire and therefore no supers were produced. The babies since being from a super pairing should, no matter what other genes are involved, be fires and maybe just bad luck hitting no supers. I myself had 6 normals a few years back from spider X normal so odds can suck. My concern is was the parent of mine an actual fire or a fire lookalike. I haven't gotten a reply detailing things like I've asked which also makes me wonder if this will end up being a BOI post soon.
 
Back
Top