raindrummer101 Ashlie Howell RIP OFF!!!

[Greg Riso]

This is one person I highly recommend EVERYONE stay clear of. My situation began in the end of August '04 when I responded to an animal Ashlie had posted here at Fauna. Here's a link to one of several ads she posted in various places here. http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=47736
Notice in the ad it states female and although I spent a week trying to contact her I got no response...first red flag. I should have left well enough alone. Had I done so wouldn't be writing this now. I actually ended up winning this same "female" adult CA boa at Reptibid one week later and was notified the following by Ashlie.

Hi! You won the auction.. Congrats ! You'll Love the snake.. AND she just ate anyhow you can send the money to me via money order.. total is $135.00 send to
Ashlie Howell
8640 SW 9th St. Rd.
Ocala FL 34481

I proceeded to send her the money via US Postal MO that same day. I received the animal a week later. It had been shipped in an uninsulated box with no heat pack shipped via the USPS! That was red flag #2 since the packing job was non existent and virtually everyone knows shipping snakes through the mail is illegal. At least I received the animal and it was alive.
After quarantining for four months I decided to put it in with a male CA boa. After a month went by with no breeding activity I became weary and probed Ashlie's animal to be a male.
Okay, we've all had our share of mis-sexed animals and common policy is for the seller to take back the animal or compensate the buyer in some way because the animal was misrepresented, right?
On 1/23/04 I wrote Ashlie the following e-mail with her response located above.
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Please accept my sincerest apology. i bought the
animal in trust of the sellers experience in snake
sexing and sold it for what i was told it was. i will
purchase the animal back for what u say i owe. but it
will be postponed due to the temp.next email.,
--- [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote:
> Hi Ashlie. It has been a few months since I bought
the Central American boa
> item # 1094029826 at Reptibid from you. It has been
doing fine eating f/t
> rats whenever offered and is very healthy. The only
problem is I just recently
> discovered this animal is most definitely a male,
NOT a female. Up until now
> I'd just assumed it was a female but after becoming
suspicious over a lack of
> any breeding activity I decided to check sex it.
> I first noticed that the spurs were very long and
when I tried to probe one
> side a four inch sperm plug shot out onto my hand
lol. The probe went in very
> deep on that side so I then tried the other. Same
thing, plenty of sperm
> present and the probe depth was also just as deep.
> I already have two adult male Central American boas
that I had hoped would
> breed this animal but obviously that's not going to
happen.
> I really can't use this animal since it's a male and
would like to send it
> back to you immediately. I purchased it from you for
$135 shipped and according
> to your shipping figure from one of your letters it
should cost about $40
> to send back. I've also kept him well fed and
estimate I've spent about $20 on
> rats which you would have used also had it been
maintained in your
> collection. This means my total out of pocket
expenses which includes the purchase
> price, feeding, and return shipment cost will be
$195 adding the above three
> figures together.
> I would like to send this male CA snake back to you
ASAP since it is not
> what I bargained for and I really cannot use it.
Please let me know how you'd
> like to handle this situation. Thank you very much-
for your consideration.
>
> Greg Riso
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One week later on 2/01/05 I wrote Ashlie again to arrange sending the animal back to her. Here is that e-mail with her response.
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I know this has been ahuge inconvenience 4 u. i cant
refund your money now i dont have it. i just found out
that my mother has cancer. i am 1000 miles away and
have to go take care of her.
--- [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote:
> Ashlie,
>
> I'm making a shipment to Kentucky tomorrow for
Thursday morning delivery and
> would like to get the CA boa back to you. I will
take every precaution to
> pack the animal properly so he'll be warm enough and
well protected. Can you
> please give me your ship to address? I'd also
appreciate a refund for the amount
> mentioned earlier. As I remember I sent payment to
you via a money order. I
> have a Paypal account that is the same address as
this one if you'd like to
> refund that way. Please let me know what you'd like
to do. Thank you.
>
> Greg
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On 2/04/05 I wrote again in response to the sick Mom with cancer, thousand miles from home sob story.
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Ashlie,

I'm sorry to hear about your Mom but I still would like to clear up this situation concerning the mis-sexed CA boa. The fact that this animal is a male is no fault of mine since you posted it as a female and I bid and won it at Reptibid as such. Are you saying you are temporarily not able to give me a refund for this animal or you have no intention of ever doing so at all? There's a big difference between the two and I'd hate to see your reputation be affected if you've decided to take the latter route.
I understand you are short on cash but I might be willing to take another animal in trade that I might be able to use. Do you have anything else you may consider trading? I'd like to resolve this matter and move on ASAP. Thank you.
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We wrote back and forth some more and she had nothing else to trade, no money, blah, blah so I decided to send her the animal with shipping charges billed to receiver. I gave her proper notice and shipped the animal successfully which is verified here in her letter of 2/09/05
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Snake arrived this morning.. he looks good... again please accept my apologies as soon as i can get some money together i'll send it to you.. Maybe i can sell him to someone else to get your money..

[email protected] wrote:
Hi Ashlie. I shipped him out via DHL with tracking number 6621601151. You may track the package here http://www.dhl-usa.com/home/home.asp just copy and paste the number.
I marked it bill to receiver and the total amount was $32.31 which I think is pretty reasonable.
Please let me know how he arrives. He's got a 40 hour heat pack going in a styrofoam insulated box so he should be fine.

Greg
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So the animal was sent to her and she acknowledged it made it there fine. I haven't heard boo from her since. Over the last month I've tried e-mailing and calling different numbers she posted here at Fauna for contact information in another thread found here:

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=49131

Other information can be found out about her here on her home page.
http://www.angelfire.com/me4/mariah101/Ashlie.html

After reading the title of her home page "It's All About me" I guess that really sums it up about her. DO NOT DEAL WITH THIS SCUM!
Is there anyone out there that can help me get through to this piece of work?

 

[Suncoast Herpetological]

Greg

Has she been notified about the existance of this thread?

 

[reptilebreeder]

EVERYBODY I know guarantees the sex of snakes, however I don't know how many, if any would do it 5 months later.

 

[Lucille]

Greg:


Did the seller agree to a refund or did you just send the snake back? To me, if someone shipped a snake illegally via USPS, and then you found it was not even sexed correctly, it WOULD raise red flags, I am not sure I would trust a person like that to get a refund back to me.

Did you notify her that shipping USPS is illegal? What did she say? Do you still have those emails?
I think people who put the reptile community in a bad light by shipping illegally are particularly egregious. I hope you get your refund and I do think it is a good idea for you to notify her of this thread; perhaps that might affect her future actions.

 

[cthulhu77]

Not sure if I concur with the whole refund idea here...uh, shouldn't you have checked upon receiving the animal ? After that long, I doubt I would refund someone's money...
On the other hand, the shipping issue is horrible...definitely a seller that needs some education...
I guess I don't think that you were "ripped off"...an off deal, yes, but you do have a snake, and it isn't dead or in bad shape...hope that she reads all of this and pipes in !
greg

 

[Jim O]

My $0.02 is *all* snakes should be guaranteed correctly sexed unless sold otherwise. And while, in a perfect world the buyer should double check upon arrival, there should be no time limit on that guarantee unless agreed or unless you want to argue that the snake underwent a gender conversion. As for refunding for feeding expenses. I would have said "Pffffffft" to that. That's on the buyer for not finding out sooner. But I would have refunded the purchase price and shipping both ways. It is the seller's responsibility to sex their own animals prior to shipping.

I am in the midst of buying an adult Cape York Spotted Python male. As part of the deal, I was offered a female yearling for $100 which I accepted.

They were due to be shipped today. Here is the correspondence that I received by e-mail last night from a very honest seller:

Jim-

Bad news… We resexed all the smaller cape yorks. They are all males (they were sold to us as females). Do you want us to refund you the $100? I’m really sorry.

I received the refund in my PayPal account within minutes of sending my response. That's a seller doing his job and doing it right. I have little doubt that I will be posing a "good guy" later on them.

 

[Greg Riso]

Answers to Your Questions

Okay, in hindsight I realize I should have sexed the snake early on but that is not at issue here. As a result of this situation it is now my protocol to verify sex ASAP for each and every new animal that comes in.
To answer John Schmitt's question regarding did I notify Ashlie of this thread, the answer is yes, I notified her this morning. Here is my e-mail to her.

Ashlie,

Since you never bothered responding to my e-mails or phone messages there's some nice information on you that can be found here to warn others to stay away:
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67790&goto=newpost
Feel free to chime in at will to justify your actions or inaction in this particular case.

Greg
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In response to John Kellar's questioning the 5 month time frame involved....
While I agree 4 months, not 5, is a long time that has nothing to do with this particular situation. The time elapsed is not at issue. This is not a case of, "did I get a guarantee regarding sex of the animal and if so for what period of time?" The fact is I wrote her to notify her the animal was not the female it was supposed to be and she agreed to refund me the money. She agreed to take the animal back and refund my money. The fact that she HAS NOT DONE SO IS AT ISSUE. I will repost Ashlie's very first response to my notification of the mis-sexed animal.

"Please accept my sincerest apology. i bought the
animal in trust of the sellers experience in snake
sexing and sold it for what i was told it was. i will
purchase the animal back for what u say i owe. but it
will be postponed due to the temp."

After this she agreed on a shipment date and I sent the animal back to her with shipping charges billed to receiver. Up until this point I have not received a charge from DHL but I cannot assume it has been paid. It has been over two months since she received the animal which she acknowledged was returned safely to her via e-mail on 2/09/05. I never received my refund!
So in response to Greg Ewald's comment, "I guess I don't think that you were "ripped off"...an off deal, yes, but you do have a snake, and it isn't dead or in bad shape...hope that she reads all of this and pipes in !" I respond
I DON"T HAVE THE SNAKE NOR DO I HAVE A PENNY TO SHOW FOR IT. ASHLIE FLAT OUT STATED SHE WOULD REFUND ME MY MONEY AND HAS NOT DONE SO. THIS IS WHAT IS AT ISSUE HERE.

Lucille, I honestly don't remember exactly what I wrote at the time regarding Ashlie having shipped via the post office but I do know I mentioned it. If I can track down an e-mail I will but I'm not sure I saved it. Up until just a few months ago I actually had the original USPS label paperwork from atop the package in her hand writing. I'm going to try and find it when I get a chance. As far as red flags go I agree with you. There were several. The way I looked at it was I originally had to trust her when I sent her the $135 for the animal after winning it at Reptibid. She did indeed send me the animal. She later stated in writing that she would refund me my money so I had little choice but to trust her again.

I appreciate everyone's comments here and I hope it is understood my use of capital letters and bold print is meant only to emphasize certain points. I am not "yelling" at anyone but I do want the herp world to know this person has not honored her agreement and unless she states otherwise here, it appears she has no intention of doing so. I am very tired of thieves in this business and have zero tolerance for them. Ashlie Howell is one person that cannot be trusted and everyone needs to know this. What has happened to me is very black and white. There is no grey area involved to be confused about.
BTW, this is not the first snake Ashlie has screwed up the sex on so it is obviously a reocurring issue with her. Check this thread out.
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=48909

 

[Dennis Hultman]

Regardless of everything that has transpired she now has the snake and the money. She needs to make a refund immediately.

 

[Jim O]

Regardless of everything that has transpired she now has the snake and the money. She needs to make a refund immediately.

That is the salient point.

 

[reptilebreeder]

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In response to John Kellar's questioning the 5 month time frame involved....
While I agree 4 months, not 5, is a long time that has nothing to do with this particular situation. The time elapsed is not at issue.

After quarantining for four months I decided to put it in with a male CA boa. After a month went by with no breeding activity I became weary and probed Ashlie's animal to be a male.

That's why I put 5 months, but you're rigth seeing as how she agreed to the refund and already has the snake, she definitely needs to issue the refund.

there should be no time limit on that guarantee

To each his own, but I think that is crazy. I'm not going to take back an animal that has been in someone's care for an indefinite amount of time. Just like a buyer needs to notify you of the snakes health with in time alloted (whatever the guarantee is, 24, 48 hours, 7 days, etc) it's not an unreasonable expectation that the person makes sure that all aspects of a guarantee are met within that time frame.

 

[Jim O]

To each his own, but I think that is crazy. I'm not going to take back an animal that has been in someone's care for an indefinite amount of time. Just like a buyer needs to notify you of the snakes health with in time alloted (whatever the guarantee is, 24, 48 hours, 7 days, etc) it's not an unreasonable expectation that the person makes sure that all aspects of a guarantee are met within that time frame.

Not to beat a dead horse more, but ponder this:

What if the buyer was a young, inexperienced herper and did not know how to sex a snake safely? Say for instance this is a person's second snake, his other is a male and he buys a "female" from you? He quarantines the animal, and cycles it. The he introduces it to his *known* male and there's no activity. So just to be certain, your customer takes the "female" you sold him to the vet who now wants $20 to sex the animal. He pays and lo and behold! It's a male. It's been four months. Are you relieved of your responsibility to have sexed it right in the first place?

My answer: Not in a hundred years. Your mistake and you are responsible for it. I agree there could be a reasonable time period, but honestly I do not probe every animal I buy when I buy it. Usually the animals are stressed and the last thing they need is more of it. After I am done thoroughly inspecting the snake, palpating the snake from head to tail and looking in the mouth, the snake doesn't need more stress. If the seller told me the sex guarantee is only for a day or two I might act differently. But otherwise a sex guarantee is just that, a guarantee. JMHO.

Now if Greg had sexed it, bred a few females and then wanted his money back, well of course that would be different. But when *I* sell a snake I guarantee that it has been sexed correctly and I stand behind that guarantee. Under a circumstance like this, Greg did exactly what I, and many others might have done.

 

[Greg Riso]

In This Particular Case...

Ashlie agreed to take the animal back and reimburse me for the rats and shipping charges. When she was short on cash I told her she could try and sell the animal and pay me as soon as she could. I never saw the animal posted anywhere and she certainly knew where she could sell it. After all, I originally saw it posted here at Fauna in about five different areas along with it being posted at Reptibid.
In my opinion I think she deliberately planned on taking the animal back with no intention refunding me a cent.
In her e-mail dated 2/07/05 she said:

you can ship tomorrow night if you want.. i'm really truly sorry about this whole thing.. i would never try to rip anyone off. ever. as soon as i am able i will pay you everything i owe you.. right now it's just too hard. i told you why.. please forgive me.
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Why is it every time someone says they are so sorry, they would never rip anyone off, please forgive me......I always get this feeling I should bend over and expect a reach around?

 

[turtlepimp]

In her e-mail dated 2/07/05 she said:

you can ship tomorrow night if you want.. i'm really truly sorry about this whole thing.. i would never try to rip anyone off. ever. as soon as i am able i will pay you everything i owe you.. right now it's just too hard. i told you why.. please forgive me.
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Why is it every time someone says they are so sorry, they would never rip anyone off, please forgive me......I always get this feeling I should bend over and expect a reach around?

Greg,no one ever apologizes for something they have not done or do not intend to do.Chalk this one up to your education.It sucks to be the nice guy.

Andy Sury

 

[Lucille]

Greg,no one ever apologizes for something they have not done or do not intend to do.Chalk this one up to your education.It sucks to be the nice guy.

Andy Sury

I cannot say for sure what will happen, but I think a bad rep on the BOI will help to make it suck to be the seller.
There is lots left to do in an attempt to see justice done: a note mailed to the state attorney general, and if the packing can be found, a note to USPS, after all, shipping a snake through the USPS is a CRIME.
I feel that most people here work hard for their money and here Greg has no snake and no money. I understand hard financial times but that is no excuse to do something wrong, and a refund seems the right answer here.
The seller could have resold the snake and come up with SOME money. The LEAST that could be done is an offer of SOME of the refund, with the balance to follow.

 

[cthulhu77]

Whoops! My fault! I must have missed the bit where you stated you sent the snake back...I was under the impression you were still in possession of the beast...if she has the snake back, you should have your money back.
Still disagree with some of you about the sexing/feeder rat thing though...to me, that is "caveat emptor", and just part of the trade. I would not refund money after 5 months, nor would I agree to pay for the feeder animals...but, she DID, and so does owe the money now.
greg

 

[Wilomn]

Well, I think that since she agreed to pay for feed and shipping that she SHOULD do so.

For myself, the day I get a snake, in fact one of the first things I do upon initial inspection, is VERIFY sexing. Twice last year I bought pairs of animals. Twice last year I got a pair of males. Once the year before. Had I NOT sexed them upon arrival I would be up the proverbial creek sans proverbial paddle. Both times the seller offered to either refund my money or send me a female when another was available. Once I am SURE it is a mistake and once I am fairly certain the guy was hoping I would not notice.

It's up to the buyer to VERIFY that what was delivered IS what was ordered. Don't trust ANYONE. Heck, if you get a snake from me, CHECK to make sure I sent you the right sex.

Somewhere on this site is a thread about me mis-sexing a snake, I sent a guy two females. In this instance it is a new morph so when I produce them again I WILL send him a male, even though he did not catch it for two years. I also know this guy, not personally but well enough to know that he is not going to lie to me. But, if it was just a normal snake and someone I did not know, I would offer a discount but would not replace or refund UNLESS there was absolute proof that I was the one that made the mistake. Too many crooks out there to just take someones word that I was wrong.

When I get around to putting up a TOS on my site it WILL state that the buyer has 48 hours to verify sex or the snake, WHATEVER the sex, is theirs, be they kid, teacher or parent, regardless of the price of the snake.

In this instance the seller agreed to pay Greg for the food and the shipping and if she doesn't she's just ANOTHER SCUMBAG seller. I wonder if she does business with cmg reptiles aka chris guida or any of the florida scumbags. She's JUST like them so far as I can see.

 

[Jim O]

In this instance the seller agreed to pay Greg for the food and the shipping and if she doesn't she's just ANOTHER SCUMBAG seller.

And the snake!! She has the snake and the money (and a bad rep) and Greg has bupkus.

Ashlie....here it is...your very own sign:

 

[pch101]

Well Ashlie, you had your chance, and by not coming here you have gone and forced Jim to reinstate the dreaded toilet claw. Do you know what that means? Just incase you don't, it means you are as low as they get. Welcome to the club. Do me a favor and say "hi" to Jeremy Stark, Jessy Underhill, Miko (Mike Ortiz), and all of the other bad guys at your next monthly BGA (Bad Guy Association) meeting. I hope you are happy with yourself. Sadly enough, you deserve much more serious consequences. You need to pay back the money that you have agreed to pay Greg and be done with it. This is NOT the place to play games and pull these kind of stunts. However, if you are looking for a bad reputation, well then congratulations! You now have one. Was it really worth it?

 

[Dennis Hultman]

Greg did you read that link you posted before you did business with her?

With an attitude like that I never would have.

 

[daniel1983]

geez. It is reasons like this that younger honest keepers like myself have a hard time getting started and trusted in the reptile industry.