Randall Ellis, Reptile Locators (BAD GUY)

[ravensgait]

Bob as Jim said when have we granted anyone time here much less a week. We go by what we see in these threads and right now we see what looks to be a creditor looking to collect from Randall.

Yeah there is a possibility that there is more to the story but every time someone here tries to defend something like this or ask people to wait I think of Chris Johnson and how long it took before people would believe he was a bad guy.

So for myself I look at this and wonder where Randall is? sure he could be trapped in his car at the bottom of an embankment but that's not real likely. I think we all know what is the most likely reason he hasn't posted yet..

Read the emails he was bit by a snake and then was sick ETC the classic dodge we hear from so many who can't or are not going to pay.

I too can't see what AA has to gain by misrepresenting this, they seem to have been and are going out of their way to try not to upset or offend anyone over here.

Besides say this is all some missunderstanding there is a missunderstanding of what's owed and or he pays them tomorrow(if that happens it is likely because of this thread) all will be fine and good on this deal. But there seems to be something about other deals he has done that have issues as well. Granted we don't know if that is true or not but it is out there and if there is any truth to it at all we may see another thread or two about Randall...

Randy

 

[Wolfy-hound]

Griz, I'd think that if Randall comes on here showing proof that he DID pay the importers, then it's just as valid on page 4 as it WOULD have been on page 1. So people stateing their outrage on his actions(based on the proof of emails by the OP) is nothing out of the ordinary. I don't think I've seen you protesting people posting in other threads, so I'm curious as to what makes this one different? Is it just that it is a African Importer? Or is it that you think that the 'bad' guy is really a good guy, and must have an excuse?
What proof would you accept? Usually emails are good enough for the BOI, so I'm wondering what more you'd want? If they made up the emails, then no matter what they post, you can still claim that they "could" have made up anything else they post.
I'm just wanting to clarify, since it's unusual to have someone defending the bad guy, without any ties to the bad guy. You haven't said you're his business partner, so I'm wondering. Why insist on this particular thread that everyone wait to state any opinions? Or is it that you think on ALL the threads people jump too quickly?
If he posts on here, showing he did pay, and that the OP is a scammer, then a bunch of folks have to eat crow and say.. Well... sorry we said you were scum, we were wrong. But otherwise.. what?
Theresa Baker
AKA Wolfy

 

[lanceheads]

I called Randall last night and today and informed him of this thread.
He says his internet service is down and will post a reply as soon as his computer gets back on line.
Randal Berry

 

[thomas davis]

true

quote....Hate to say it, but maybe the only gain for AA of Randall coming here and validating AA's claim would be to at least provide reference to others that AA may be more legitimate than many other African Exporters, and worthy the risk of a 50% down transaction.............

thats very true as is it says VOLUMES about the AAexporters co. WOW ,and randall to he just needs to pay for what he got i actually understand the exporters wanting the full/original invoice price, now as well, after time passed without nothing over 10K man without any payment?in 3months! week to get report on shipment turned in not cool, not cool at all, things like this hurt all importers here and even future potential importers whats right is right from what has been shown you randall are wrong and need to pay these people ASAP

And for AAexporters...
for more credibility post ALL emails/correspondance, lists etc.concerning this deal. that will help everyone get a clearer picture the more info the better.

where are you randall ????,,,,over 10,000.00 deal man im just disgusted you really need to fix this

,,,,,,thomas davis

 

[Griz]

You know, the more I hang around here the more I am starting to see the light that many other respected members have seen. Some of you are more the problem then you are assistance. I understand we all have our modus operandi and some people are more trusting, gullible etc then others however if you guys really want the BOI to once again return to a more credible forum then you have to hold yourself to a higher standard.

With that said, let me address some of the recent questions posed.

Wolfy - I don't know how much more clearly I could have stated this nor do I know how many more times I can state this but I don't know Randall. Never have and probably never will. There is no ulterior motive here. To suggest such a motive is part and parcel to the overall problem with the BOI.

Randy - I have been willing to accept emails as a form of proof from people who have deserved such honor. Call me skeptical but how anyone can overlook the originators origin is naivety at it's worse.

To the BOI: AA may be completely legit. This complaint may be completely legit. However, as Jim stated it and as I have thought all along, this could also be a great way to garner trust from unsuspecting people so that they will want to take advantage of an exporter. Just a thought to chew on.

The problem, as I see it, is not so much limited to this particular thread. There are too many executioners on this forum that don't have the intellectual capacity to analyze situations before they blow up and damage an innocent persons reputation. Is Randall innocent? I don't know but if he's guilty it will come out.

This forum has created a monster if you will. Some of you wear the outing of bad guys as a badge of honor but neglect to see all of the nicks in your armor from the innocent reputations that you have harmed. What's the saying about convicting an innocent person? If all it takes is waiting a few days to better assess a situation so that the BOI can be certain of who and why a person is being convicted then isn't that time well spent? If Randall is guilty today then he will still be guilty in a few days time.

This is NOT a TSE situation at the moment and the comparison is asinine. Which only goes to prove my point. The TSE scandal did a tremendous amount of damage to the reptile community. But, a few of you are so quick to want to compare every situation out there to TSE and thereby tarnish people's names that did not deserve such a label.

I realize that for the most part the zealots here have good intentions. However, some of you really need to step back and allow things to take their more natural course before applying the gasoline. It's all about timing. It's all about having a strategy. It's all about knowing when to move forward and when to stay put. And most importantly, it's about doing our best to make sure that good people do not end up with an undeserved label.

Griz

 

[Chameleon Company]

Geez Griz !!

Wolfy - I don't know how much more clearly I could have stated this nor do I know how many more times I can state this but I don't know Randall. Never have and probably never will. There is no ulterior motive here. To suggest such a motive is part and parcel to the overall problem with the BOI.

Dude, where were you when I fell on my ethical sword for Alan Beltcher .... LOL ...... I'm laughing with you here, not at you ! I ended up being accused of being his twin brother before it was done !! I am sure that Bob can be taken exactly at his word regarding Randall.

To all, I may not agree with the degree of Bob's apprehension or cause for pause here. However, his stand is based on sound ethics, which is not to say that the rest of us don't also have strong ethical values. Its refreshing to see anyone stand in front of a lynch mob (even when the perpetrator is guilty ), if for no other reason than someone has to do it. Bob, your position is certainly worthy of merit .... now, who knows how to tie a hangman's noose ... just kidding.

 

[IBsmokin]

The fact that the guy in Canada is DRIPPING jealousy because HE didn't get those aniamals and is angry at Randy for selling them for what Randy thought he would get for them, capitolism I think it's called, doesn't matter. Does it?

Two losers sporting chubbies for Randy. That's good enough to brand him a theif. Isn't it?

.

You think I posted because I am dripping with jeolousy? I have all the species Randel aquired from this company, I know of Maria and David, they are one of the best exporters out of tanzania.

I have no Chubby for Randy, I spoke with randy a few times via emails and he seemed very welcome to answering any questions I had for him, I thought eh was a great guy. I was shocked to hear that he had recieved these animals in good faith and has not made any attempt to pay for them.
If Randy wants to charge the prices that he is charge then so be it, there is no dispute in that, it is the fact that he has been making sales and has been making money, but yet he hasnt even made any attempt to pay these people the monies owed.

My biggest problem is, that out of all the scammers in Africa, we find a legitimate company that was willing to send without no money down, and when the time came for shipping Randel explained that he was short on funds, so this company paid for the shipping, so basically randy never paid zip, he recieved the animals we know this, because we all have seen them offered in kingsnake, there is no disputting that.
He has made sales since he has recieved the animals, my biggest problem with this whole situation is, why couldnt he have paid even $500 dollars since then. We all know for a fact he has made over 4 times that much off the animals he recieved. So why?

personally I do not think he had any intentions on paying this company, he just never inticipated that they would actually come on here and post. if he had any intentions he would have sent even $300 dollars, I know it isnt much but at least it would have been something, 10 payments of $300 and he woudl have had his debt almost 1/3 paid. At least it shows that even though he is having difficulties he trying.
He has made sales since he has recieved the animals so there is no excuse.

Do you think this comany will trust another american to send shipment without any advance? As an experience importer I can tell you, exporters such as these people are extremely rare.
I know a few companies that refuse to do any business with americans just because they have sent shipments and never recieved any monies!
It is too bad because there are alot of truly honest companies in the US.

I dont know what more can be said, if I am wrong for making my statements then I appologize if I offend anybody, but I am looking at it from an outsiders perspective, and I am taking AA words in good faith because I know people from around the world who have done business with this company, and they all have had nothing but good things to say about this company. So why would they even bother to post on here if it wasnt true, what would they have to gain from all of this if it was only lies? Like really seriously think about it, there is nothing for them to gain, if anything by outing Randel, they may have made made it to a point where he will not pay at all. But at least now that it is outed he wil not eb able to do this to anybody else. And if eh doesnt pay, then at least people will think twice about paying his prices he asked because it will be 100% all profit on the animals he has for sale because he paid nothign for them.
As a customer would you want to pay 350 for a snake that some one did not pay for? And you can not say it is the same if they were selling snakes they produced because there is a long process involved in producing babies, from breeding, to making sure the female is well fed, if eggs, you have to incubate etc. etc. You work for your money, but to recieve animals you did not work for or pay for, thats a whole different ball park.

I am only posting because I know this company in East Africa, and I know many people who have dealt with them so I give merit to what they say and I think everyone else should as well.

 

[Reptile Locators]

In responce to African Animals

I have not been able to respond as I have been with out service for a few days!!!
It is not that I did not want to respond to this.

Now first let me start by addressing Dave Lawson, I don’t find it ironic that you still have the Gaul To try even further to stalk and harass me in this way as you have for the last year and it is quite old remember you are the one who owes ally Mwenda 16,000 dollars and your lies to him cost me 7,800.00 and now your cheap shot buttering up to African animals to get in to their good graces please feel free to do so. You have cost me enough money and problems! And I could care less now as far as you are concerned and the lies you spread. Get a real life!

As to the questions about the shipment I received from African animals in the beginning when this all started VIA e-mails and Phone conversations I told them of my problems with exporters
In Tanzania of I am tired of sending my money to exporters and getting nothing and sending money to Tanzania and getting garbage animals!! African animals on many occasions assured me that they would be able to provide quality animals and on that we agreed on prices for quality animals because I did not want animals with missing tails, legs or scars I ask for healthy animals and they assured me the whole time they could provide them and wanted to set a standard for quality animals.

So now time goes by they were having problems with collectors and I won’t even mention of things said in conversation about those problems. And I waited till I got the shipment and was appalled by the condition of quite a few of the animals and in fact I did call them right away. About the unacceptable animals and the DOA animals and told them I was not happy with this
As I only expected good animals and I am not saying there were not some acceptable animals as there was. they wanted a premium price for premium quality animals.

We then communicated back and forth with this problem and said she would contact another US customer to find out what to do with these animals as I did not want them and then I did not even hear from maria and had to contact her about what they wanted to do with them and Maria then said Randall you know this business it is the risk you take.

No one wants bad animals and no one will buy dead or injured animals!!!!!

One problem is they sent 6 Jacksonii tree snakes 4 of which were Boomslangs and only one of those supposed Jacksonii were good but! it is not, because it is a boomslang!!

A mole snake which was not a mole snake! And there were never 6 mole snakes in this shipment!
15 jamersons mambas all rubbed off noses and beat up which all died as I told them they would and Maria said Randall they will heal on their own in a few weeks. And I said they will die they are too bad off but these are not the only animals I had a problem with and when I tried to get things worked out it became there was no working things out as Maria would not listen I tried to be as professional about this whole mess of a shipment and try to figure out the best way to handle it just could not get them to understand that I can not sell bad animals no matter what and I could not pay for bad animals even in the beginning I told Maria & David I will not pay for bad or dead animals or animals I did not order as I tell all my exporters! And their shipment is not the only one I got in at the time. So for anyone to assume that all the animals I offered for sale came from African Animals could be wrong by far.

I in fact had some unexpected set backs due to the shipment I received from African animals just due to the bad animals I received.
A very slow period in the reptile industry among personal issues and health problems during this time, and asked her to bear with me as I would send some funds when things picked up! And they started to and I contacted her to let her know I was going to wire a thousand dollars that morning but was told there is nothing to talk about nothing can be worked out and to send all or nothing. Now I will do the right thing which is pay for the acceptable animals but I can not pay for a full invoice for animals that were bad!

I am aware of how this all looks according to e-mails but there were many phone conversations between e-mails also that Maria nor I can account for.


Now I am not going to boggle up this thread with more nonsense nor repost again!

Maria I have always been a fair person it is going to be hard to recover from this thread.
My intentions were always good even now, I have no ill feelings towards anyone here on this thread, and ask Maria were you aware of the condition of these animals before they were shipped??

Most of you know me and some have done business with me I have lots to loose by this as for my reputation but I have nothing to gain by lying about issues or problems with this shipment.
As for the Pattern less nitschei I never sold it I still have it and many other snakes that have not sold.



Randall Ellis

 

[Suncoast Herpetological]

randall

Not picking on your reply but I want to get the timeline straight

1.) November 2006 you received a shipment of animals from AA. You were supposed to send 30% of the total invoice upon receipt (approximately $3,100)and the remainder in 10 days.

2.) A percentage of the animals were unacceptable in one way or another. Due to this you requested and were given a discount on the original invoice price of $2,345 (approximately 20%). They were notified of the problems a week after receipt. No money was sent on receipt as agreed upon.

3.) In the ensuing 3.5 months you have not sent any of the payment. You offerred partial payment of $1000 approximately 3 months after receipt and it was refused.

Is this accurate?

 

[kmurphy]

Most of you know me and some have done business with me I have lots to loose by this as for my reputation but I have nothing to gain by lying about issues or problems with this shipment.

Randall, of course you would have something to gain by lying about this transaction. Throughout most of the emails you admitted to owing AA their money. You obviously immediately broke the agreement by not sending the 30% within 10 days. Even if there were a number of unhealthy animals you owed them something, and still you did not pay it. Are you saying now you don't owe them anything?

 

[LadyViper]

Does anyone know the reputation of Africian Animals? This is great advertising for them. All I am saying is that I do not know them, so I have no opinion of their business practices.

We have done a little business With Reptile Locators and found Randall to be fair and honest.

To place a accurate opinion, I would have to see a packing invoice vs a health report of each animal.

I really don't think it's to judge either party until all the facts are given.

 

[Chameleon Company]

Randall,

As noted by Mike, and the emails, you were granted a discount of over $2,300. What is the point of posting four pictures since you and AA seemed in agreement of a discount covering far more than those animals pictured?

I am aware of how this all looks according to e-mails but there were many phone conversations between e-mails also that Maria nor I can account for.
Now I am not going to boggle up this thread with more nonsense nor repost again!
Maria I have always been a fair person it is going to be hard to recover from this thread.
My intentions were always good even now, I have no ill feelings towards anyone here on this thread, and ask Maria were you aware of the condition of these animals before they were shipped??

Did you take a different position in your phone conversations than what you agreed upon in writing ? How could that make any sense? Do you expect people to disregard what you agreed to in writing and believe that the true substance of the deal is actually lost to phone conversations instead? Asking the question of Maria here about "Did you know the condition of these animals before they were shipped" is more of the same red herring. Was this a question you forgot to ask in all the phone conversations?

You made a deal. Some things didn't work out for you, but you have yet to send them a penny. In the end, you did not dispute one iota of their claim against you, so why all the hot air ?

 

[lanceheads]

I can see why Randall will not post the invoice for the shipment. NO importer wants to reveal what they paid for the animals received.
That in itself will start a whole new thread about people complaining WHAT they paid for the animals as opposed to what the importer paid! LOL!

While I'm not taking sides, some posters have alluded that there may be more to this fiasco than meets the eye.

Eventually, this will play out and un-fold while we wade through the he-said/she said scenario.

Randal

 

[ravensgait]

Randall pay AA what you owe! this is all out where everyone can see it and I think that trying the (but the animals were bad ETC excuse) was a bad idea . You didn't make the first payment and you have been selling the animals so trying to distract people with that excuse isn't going to fly..

This is one of those things where you screwed up and are outed for all to see. Pay these people their money and if you owe anyone else over there hope they don't post here. Randy

 

[ViperPaintball]

Well, I am a big fan of paying what you owe people.

However, playing devil's advocate, I was contacted shorty after he received that shipment. He was trying to find a home for a N. melanoleuca. He said that it looked like it was missing an eye and in overall unsatisfactory shape. I have a soft spot for cobras, so I told him I would take it in. It arrived and looked pretty rough. It was dry and crusty, and the eye looked horrible. However, after some soaking and some work it was found to have about 5 or 6 old eyecaps in place. I don't know that I have ever heard of one retaining that badly in nature, or without some less-than-adequate care/housing.

A little bit of proper care and effort and now she’s beautiful and happy (well, as happy as forest cobras get, anyway). Her skin is shiny and her eyes look great.

I wouldn’t go as far as to say that I am sure that all $10k worth of snakes looked like she did…but I know what one looked like. If she was a representation of the rest I could see a lot of time and work to get them ready to sell.

Just speculation on much of this…but definite facts on the animal I saw.

 

[Suncoast Herpetological]

Kerry

No one is disputing that a percentage of the animals were sub par. One would assume that the number of animals in less than satisfactory condition was the basis for the discount that Randall requested and received.

There is not much more to be said on this one folks. A deal was struck. Goods were shipped. A further discount was negotiated. Payment was not made as mutually agreed. Not even timely partial payment in installments.

There is a word for that

All that can be hoped for is that Randall will salvage his reputation by doing the right thing

 

[ravensgait]

Kerry I have to wonder did you think Randall was expecting Captive bred animals?? I know it sucks but some do come in in real rough shape and even dead. But your talking about one animal out 10 grand worth of imports which for that much money you can get a whole lot of them. So one with retained eyecaps isn't much when you think about it...Randy

 

[BryonsBoas]

My 2 cents

I don't know AA , never talked , chatted , IMed or anything with them so can't say how legit / not legit they are.

I have chatted with Randall , never dealt with him but have talked to a couple folks who have and gave him a thumbs up. But again I can't say how legit / not legit he is since all I've done is chat with him.

My stand on this.... If premium animals were requested from someone and some very not premium animals came in but premium prices were expected you can bet ain't nobody getting 1 red cent until something is agreed on in accordance to those sup par animals. Not getting what was requested ( bad animals ) has a tendency on changing things quickly. If something reasonable is worked out then fine , pay it up and be done with it.

On the other hand if any of the animals were still questionable I might just find myself looking hard at what I'd do. Its doubtful I'd pay alot until I knew for sure what lived , what died , what needed to be put down. I've been in the situation of paying outright for a critter just to get it in needing a vet and the seller disappearing. I've never been in Randall's position so I'd probably use my past experience partly as a guide.

Both parties have said parts of the deal were by phone so that adds the " He said , She said " factor to it. Not being privy to those conversations leaves gaps and holes as to what was potentially worked out over the deal . We've seen it here before where e-mails were left out to further support one sides case against the other. Since I haven't dealt with either party I can't say for sure which side I would stand with the most. Too much info is still missing.

Randall had medical problems. AA's problem? No ( snakebites definitely ain't cheap tho )
Randall hit a slow spot. AA's problem? No
Randall hasn't paid his debt. AA's problem? Yes , bad animals in the shipment , wrong animals in the shipment , AA hasn't been paid yet.

AA has a problem with their collectors . Randall's problem? No
AA shipped sub par animals in the shipment. Randall's problem? Yes , bad animals = loses ( financially and dead animals ), can't sell bad animals .
AA shipped wrong animals in the shipment . Randall's problem? Yes , if he has customers for certain animals at a certain quantity and the animals are wrong ... well you can do the math there.
AA hasn't been paid. Randall's problem? Yes , Randall did offer a $1,000.00 payment which was refused at the terms of all monies owed be paid. But AA hasn't been paid.
AA now tosses the discount out for the bad ( some dead now ) / wrong animals and want full monies for the entire shipment. Randall's problem? Yes , I wouldn't pay for the dead , dying , animals. Not sure what I would do about the wrong ones. And I would pay less than asking price for the ones that were screwed up. Why should I expect Randall to pay for it if I wouldn't.

Randall never denied the debt , made an attempt at some payment ( $1,000.00 ) which was turned down but never said or insinuated he would not pay.Considering the pics and description of the animals and taking into account the previous discount I wouldn't pay the entire price either. Asking or demanding full price for sub par , dead or dying critters is asinine at best. Does AA deserve payment? Yes but not full price if the shipment wasn't what was requested ( quality ) or if anything died during shipping , due to poor quality etc.

 

[Stardust]

And their shipment is not the only one I got in at the time. So for anyone to assume that all the animals I offered for sale came from African Animals could be wrong by far.

There are a lot of problems I can see here but this statement stuck out for me.
I would like to know if your other shipment you recieved were from Africa as well and what was in that shipment?
Invoices from both places I would like to see. I am not accusing as I do not have a lot of facts to go on. I do see the e-mails.
This is the BOI and I am only inquiring. Snakes can be switched out and pictures taken. Just some thoughts running through my head. Better to be precise and clear.

 

[Intense Herpetoculture]

This is the BOI, not a place to judge someone you have no interest in doing business with! I don't see why anyone but Randall and A A are doing the talking here. This is why the BOI is becoming more of a joke to the outside world. The quality of this site is going sharply downhill and there is no end to it.

This is the BOI and I am only inquiring. Snakes can be switched out and pictures taken. Just some thoughts running through my head. Better to be precise and clear.