Raptor

[groovygeckos]

Stephanie,

It doesnt matter if it is banded IMO, Garrick bred the banded gene into(outcrossed) his Aptors, so out popped a banded one. He also hatches ALOT of geckos. It came from the Patternless and carries those genes Im sure, that seems to be what decides having the eye mutation.

Blizzards have eyes like that on their own actually. You would have no idea if a Blizzard line was ever outcrossed with a "het" for Jungle, a Jungle, or Stripe or something, if it was the same thing. It is not believed to be the same thing, though some people IMPROPERLY CALL THEM ECLIPSES! Haha! I have a "snake eyed" Blazing, but I dont think is an actual "Eclipse". If so then a "Diablo Blanco" should not exist. Who knows!

The only reason I am using this term "het" is I am unsure what they are as of right now. If these geckos "carry" these genes from their parents, you can argue and say that maybe they are recessive but "co-dom" to eachother.

We have this same conversation too often, or something very similar sorry if I dont remember word for word.

drop the inappropriate use of heterozygous when saying APTOR or RAPTOR. It's being used as a marketing tool, is inaccurate and it is confusing a lot of people. Say "from RAPTOR lines" or "Sired by a RAPTOR" if it pleases you, but stop the insanity with the inappropriate terminology.

No, because it is not confusing anyone, that is the terminology they get from Ron! The person that has umpteen thousand times the influence in this community, and is USING THIS TERM RIGHT NOW. I cannot change it, noone can I mean I try, I give proper terms, and educate my customers, etc. It is a "gene carrier", if I call it a het or not. It will produce what I am telling someone it will produce. For me thats all that matters.

It could be correct terminolgy still, because I see a very strong hint towards it being "co-dom". I notice that the traits follow one another in a certain pattern, it is very simple. Jungle/ Stripe > Reverse Stripe > Patternless > Eclipse. That is the same thing that happened in RT`s colony, the Eclipse came from his "Aptor" project, just like they did for EVERYONE that bought "Aptors" which were suposedely only possible hets. That means RT was wrong, and did not know he was even selling Eclipse genes at the time when they were only "Aptors". The public did not know about the red eyed ones until later. That right there is one of the things that proves it, not the picture of a gecko.

I have posted all of that over the last two years I have been doing this, on the couple of forums, I did make a few long posts last year, I think a few times explained myself pretty well, and even had pics. I made one post (APTOR X PRS)on GF in the genetics forum, w/ a pic and noone even responded.

You are one of the only people not to see my work, and seem to not believe me unless I show you a picture. Ha!

aren't too great at explaining your findings

I think it is because I am getting tired of "regurgitating" the same facts, in hopes someone else knows what it DOES mean, or comes to the same conclusion I did. It seems the more I try to explain, it gets too long, so I tried just to list all of these facts.

 

[groovygeckos]

I may have forgot to put it in my recent ad but "het" Eclipse only means the gecko has a ruby eyed parent, as far as my available page goes.

I would almost bet money it is not confusing anyone, because it is the term that had been used, and you will get results JUST LIKE a recessive`s results.

I`de even go so far as to say if I started telling everyone these "are from Raptor lines" instead, people would write me to ask "is it a het raptor?" anyways.

I will stick with "gene carrier", and informing my customers. It is the best I feel I can do right now.

 

[TripleMoonsExotic]

Blizzards have eyes like that on their own actually. You would have no idea if a Blizzard line was ever outcrossed with a "het" for Jungle, a Jungle, or Stripe or something, if it was the same thing. It is not believed to be the same thing, though some people IMPROPERLY CALL THEM ECLIPSES! Haha! I have a "snake eyed" Blazing, but I dont think is an actual "Eclipse". If so then a "Diablo Blanco" should not exist. Who knows!

The Blizzard in question is coming from Garrick (crestedgecko.com) and is being paired with a perfect RAPTOR to see what happens. I too think it's very possible that it is not the same, but I want to be 100% certain by doing my own breedings and providing the complete finding to the public. If it proves not to be compatible, it should not be called an Eclipse.

No, because it is not confusing anyone, that is the terminology they get from Ron! The person that has umpteen thousand times the influence in this community, and is USING THIS TERM RIGHT NOW. I cannot change it, noone can I mean I try, I give proper terms, and educate my customers, etc. It is a "gene carrier", if I call it a het or not. It will produce what I am telling someone it will produce. For me thats all that matters.

People are getting confused. People are seeing the term heterozygous and assume that it is recessive.

Just because Ron Tremper says so doesn't make it right. I can't stand that people look at him as a "great" and take his word as gospel. He obviously doesn't understand genetics and will say anything to make a sale. If the community wants a real influence, they should be looking toward Kelli, Marcia and many other breeders who participate and support the community.

You know, that man runs a wholesale business (C.R.A.P.) and a chain store I worked for while in college got there reptiles from him. We have received red eared sliders with shell rot, sickly emaciated water dragons and many other things from the so called "person that has umpteen thousand times the influence in this community."

You are one of the only people not to see my work, and seem to not believe me unless I show you a picture.

It's not about believing and seeing a single picture. It's about providing a complete pictorial, visual explanation. I had requested that you post this before, you said you would and never did. I am looking for complete documentation of every hatchling that was produced from a particular pairing, not a picture of the best of them.

I think it is because I am getting tired of "regurgitating" the same facts, in hopes someone else knows what it DOES mean, or comes to the same conclusion I did. It seems the more I try to explain, it gets too long, so I tried just to list all of these facts.

I hear you! I'm tired of repeating why heterozygous is an inappropriate term when used with APTOR and RAPTOR. No one either gets it or no one cares. My feeling on it is that just because people have been doing it wrong for a few years, doesn't mean it can't be fixed.

I may have forgot to put it in my recent ad but "het" Eclipse only means the gecko has a ruby eyed parent, as far as my available page goes.

I would almost bet money it is not confusing anyone, because it is the term that had been used, and you will get results JUST LIKE a recessive`s results.

I`de even go so far as to say if I started telling everyone these "are from Raptor lines" instead, people would write me to ask "is it a het raptor?" anyways.

I will stick with "gene carrier", and informing my customers. It is the best I feel I can do right now.

All of my statements were generalized. I do not mean you specifically. I have read your ads before and was pleased to see how you do write them up instead of just saying "het RAPTOR." Though you are the only one I've ever seen do this.

I am curious though...What will you say if I produce no RAPTORs from my "het" to "het" pairings this year? I have 1.3 I'm working with all from established breeders, so I have no question that they are from a RAPTOR parent.

 

[groovygeckos]

Im just saying I can see that people will be MORE cofused by me saying they are "from Raptor lines", instead of "het" then having to explain how they are and DO carry the gene/s. ONLY because this has been the term used by RT, and well hell EVERYBODY ELSE just about. He is the one that put it out, THAT is why he has this influence(and his name of course), Im not making praise for him by saying that, or saying just because he did it we have to also. It is just the truth, I didnt say I like the fact.

It is for IDENTIFICATION PURPOSE, right now. I cant call them anything else and have anyone know what I am talking about, because of Ron.

I thought I said I have posted it, as I went along, and "will make a better post" ( or something), but like I said I have been busy, and have alot of things going on, preventing me from it. I still dont even have pictures of all of my 2006 Leopards!

If you do a search for "APTOR X Red Stripe" on here you should find the results of that cross, for starters. There are posts maybe here, and elsewhere about "Red Stripe X Reverse Stripe Albino", there are posts about "Patternless Red Stripes", and probably even "APTOR X Patternless Red Stripe". The problem is all of those tie together in the R/APTOR X PRS results, and it becomes alot of info.
""
Maybe I misunderstood you a little bit then.

I have my own "het" X "het" breeding, w/ one female I started, I hope to have eggs from her soon, and start more later in the year. We will just have to see what happens, and how many eggs we hatch, first. I was unlucky last year, w/ my "possible hets". Was hoping to have a male Raptor for some of those ones this year, but oh well. Good Luck!