Ray's Reptilia- BAD guy

[kati_slvr]

Ray sold me three female crested geckos for $330 shipped. He sent me three juvenile cresteds too young to sex, one of which is very small, probably only about 3 months old. One of the geckos was also not the one in the picture on his site.

I dealt mostly with Joy at Ray's Reptilia who claimed not to be able to answer my questions about the geckos since Ray wasn't there and was pressuring me to make the sale which should have been the point where I called it off.

The geckos were also sent through the post office when I was told they were coming DHL.

Apparently, Ray has figured out how to temperature-sex crested geckos (see his comments below). As a breeder of cresteds myself, I would love to learn his technique. All of the experts I've spoken to and books I've read say it can't be done.

I will have to cross my fingers these animals turn out to be at least two females for this deal to be worth it. It will be another couple of months before I can be sure.

Ray also has a scam with a 33% restocking fee if you are lucky enough to be allowed to return anything. He is refusing to let me return the geckos I bought and is very defensive.

Buyer beware, and don't make the same mistake I did.


Here are the e-mails from the transaction:

Kati Wrubel <[email protected]> wrote:
Would you do a deal if I took all 3 females you have for sale? How old are they?

Thanks,
Kati

Ray's Reptilia <[email protected]> wrote:
Yes we can make a deal with you. I am not sure how old they are Ray isnt here right now..

What were you wanting to pay?

Joy

Kati Wrubel <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Joy,

If they are definitely female (and the ones in the pictures) I can offer $330 shipped for all of them. Do you know approximately what they weigh right now?

Thanks,
Kati

Ray's Reptilia <[email protected]> wrote:
Ok we will take $330.00 for all three. I can let you know how much they weigh late tonight. Would you like me to send you an invoice through Paypal

Joy

Kati Wrubel <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Joy,

I just want to make sure these are the same females in the pictures, and that they are females, and get a weight on them before I send the money. Also I want to know how old they are and if they have bred yet.

Thanks,
Kati

Ray's Reptilia <[email protected]> wrote:
They are 5 months , 5 inches long, they eat great. We do not have weights on them but we guantee them to be healthy. Yes they are females.

Joy

Kati Wrubel <[email protected]> wrotewrote: OK Joy, I sent the money. Just let me know what day to expect them and the service you'll be using to send them/tracking number.

Thanks,
Kati

Ray's Reptilia <[email protected]> wrote:
We will send them through DHL on Monday

Kati Wrubel <[email protected]> wrote:
Joy,

I received the 3 geckos today and am not happy with them. They are not old enough to sex yet and I was told they were females. You also stated below you'd be sending them DHL and they were sent through the post office. I want to return them and get a full refund. I breed geckos too and can guarantee they will arrive safely. Let me know an address to send them to and a day that is good for you to receive them.

-Kati Wrubel

Ray's Reptilia <[email protected]> wrote:
They are temp sexed females and are of the best quality there is nothing wrong with them at all.

Ray

The website clearly states that we ship either DHL or usps whichever gives us the better service and they arrived in great shape and on time.

Kati Wrubel <[email protected]> wrote:
Ray,

You can't temperature sex crested geckos.

If they turn out to be females, you will have no problem selling them to someone else.

I want a refund.

-Kati

Ray's Reptilia <[email protected]> wrote:
Sorry no refunds they are exactly what you ordered.

Ray

Kati Wrubel <[email protected]> wrote:

Ray,

If they turn out to be male, I will be taking legal action against you.

-Kati


That will be fine and welcomed.

Ray

 

[PaulSage]

Kati, sorry to hear that you didn't receive what you were promised.

For everyone else who's reading, here are some related threads:
Rays Reptilia, Ray Torres, use caution.
Ray Torres of Ray's Reptilia.....
Ray's Reptilia? Good or Bad?
Ray Torres Ray's Reptilia (Good guy)

 

[gmherps]

Why does this thread not suprise me? Because Ray is KNOWN for pulling this type of crap with other people he sells too.

Go to www.bbb.com and file a complaint on them. It probably will not resolve the refund, but it may steer away potential customers from having to go through what you did.

 

[varnyard]

If you will look at reptiforums, under Inquiries About Businesses or Persons, you will find a thread on Ray there as well. It is under Ray Torres???? This guy is real good at deceptions.

 

[Dennis Hultman]

Kati, sorry for your ordeal. Paul put up some links for you and everyone else to take a look at. It is so important to check here first before purchasing.

Ray ships snakes by way of the post office.
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=55524

Ray sends imported Male B.P. instead of CBB Female and steals pictures from N.E.R.D.
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?p=331966

Kids didn’t get their frog.
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=73307

Ray double charges for shipping.
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=60965

I am a good business person and have had several hundred happy customers .

Ray, if it was one mishap or one instance of bad judgement, I could see you still being a good person to do business with but COME ON!

I don't have time to play these games so I will not be answering any more of these silly threads...
To call someone names and not have all the facts is just ignorant !!!
Ray

All the facts are in and have been for a long time. You are not trustworthy and unreliable to do business with. You are a terrible businessman.

 

[Zoo Supply]

Kati,
I am really sorry to hear you got scammed by this guy. You were definately a pleasure to do business with from a seller's standpoint.
It seems that all these scammers are flourishing again. Must be it goes in waves. Personally I cannot see ruining a reputation, or even the chance of a good reputation for 330 dollars. Kati, If you are stuck with the cresteds, get ahold of me, lets see if we can work something out so you aren't stuck being out that much money.
TOM

 

[varnyard]

Well, just a little update, Mr. Ray Torres AKA Ray's Reptilia, has now made a threat to sue a good buyer as well as seller, and I might add friend of mine. If he makes any comment about Ray on these or other forums. Now Ray, let me ask you a question; How about me, do you want to sue me? I think not!!
You have been proven time and time again to be very unprofessional, A thief of other's pictures to sell your reptiles, as well as misrepresenting your reptiles. IMO that is considered a scammer. If you cannot take pictures of the reptiles you have for sale, then the pictures people are buying according to those pictures, are getting scammed into thinking they are getting the animal in those pictures. That is 100% misrepresenting your reptiles. If I was this good lady, and you sent me these unsexed babies for adult females, I would be the one that would be eligible to get the law suit. Ray, you always find ways to slip through the cracks. I for one will be watching them cracks real close!! Bet on it!! I too caught you trying to sell cheap Colombian tegus, for the much more expensive Argentine tegus, remember that Ray? I am sure you do!! Ray had an ad on the classifides on reptimart. This was his comment back to me when I asked why he was misrepresenting these tegus.

View Personal Inbox Message
You received the following message from raysreptilia in response to your ad or message:
Name: raysreptilia
Subject: tegu
Date: 10/02/2005
Message: you complete f jack .pull your head out of your a before you die .. The pic is of a columbian but .i have both columbians and argentines .I didnt have a pic of the argentines.I know the difference. Ray

Now Ray, is that any way to act when someone asks a question about the animal/animals you have for sale? That looks like you are acting very unprofessional, don't you think?

 

[Otter_23]

Ray I made a mistake of confusing you with someone else. Apparently I shouldn't have apologized to you and you are getting quite the deserved reputation. Keep digging buddy I'm sure your close to China.

 

[dzoo]

Yet another incident that shows the value of checking the BOI FIRST instead of just coming to complain after the fact. Kati has been a member since 2004, why not use the tool that is here? There were already several bad guy threads about this seller that would have made anyone steer clear!

 

[densnake1]

My brother was thinking of buying a few corn snakes. He saw Rays add on Kingsnake and called me. I told him to let me check before he bought anything. After reading a few of the old posts, I told him that it was proabably not a good idea. I wish everyone knew about this site. Sorry for your loss. I hope he gets whats comming.
Dennis Cook

 

[Dennis Hultman]

View Personal Inbox Message
You received the following message from raysreptilia in response to your ad or message:
Name: raysreptilia
Subject: tegu
Date: 10/02/2005
Message: you complete f jack .pull your head out of your a before you die .. The pic is of a columbian but .i have both columbians and argentines .I didnt have a pic of the argentines.I know the difference. Ray.

Ray's Reptilia <[email protected]> wrote:
Sorry no refunds they are exactly what you ordered.
Ray

Originally Posted by raysreptilia
I am a good business person and have had several hundred happy customers .

Ray's Reptilia <[email protected]> wrote:
They are temp sexed females and are of the best quality there is nothing wrong with them at all.

Ray

The website clearly states that we ship either DHL or usps whichever gives us the better service and they arrived in great shape and on time.

That is not what you said. I'm an awe of your superior customer service skills.

Ray's Reptilia <[email protected]> wrote:
We will send them through DHL on Monday

 

[gmherps]

Well when is Ray going buck up and answer for is actions? My guess is NEVER!

 

[Chameleon Company]

Ray sure comes across as quite a jerk. I don't know that I'd say that the scammers are flourishing. While prior warning posts in the BOI don't shut down a disreputable seller, they do stop some transactions. Certainly lodge a complaint with KS, as they have their own threshold about putting pressure on a seller to shape-up. And this thread, like the others about Ray, will have a negative effect on him. As for all of this "threatening to sue", I'm sorry, but when you look at all of the costs and legal thresholds that must be met, its all somewhat impractical and highly unlikely in issues such as this. Hope some good comes of your situation.

 

[KNOBTAIL]

I am not to sure about determining

the sex of the gecko via the incubation method, but sometimes their may be tell tale signs even at an early age. In either case the one to contact would be Allen Rapeshy. He would be able to answer these questions with some accuracy. I know from my own experience, when I buy males or females , they are unquestionably males or female geckos. Its usually pretty clear cut. Providing photos of geckos that represent what will be sold is a cornerstone for conducting an honest business. Anything less is a scam.

 

[varnyard]

Well, I went to Allen Rapeshy's site. He had an open chat tonight at 7:00 P.S.T. I asked him if was possible to temp sex crests. His answer was short but to the point. No, to his knowledge it cannot be done, was his reply. So Ray was caught in yet another lie. It is not possible to temperature sex crested geckos in the incubator, during incubation. Now if you care to dispute this information, feel free. But I think we would all agree that Allen Rapeshy is a great expert in this field when it comes to crested geckos. So Ray, do you care to comment on why you lied to this good lady? Kati, I also asked Allen about what age they could be sexed. He agreed 4-5 months would be the earliest. Of course popping could be done, but not recommended.

 

[KNOBTAIL]

I am glad

that this was corroborated by Allen. With the exception of a few geckos, it would take several months to know the sex for sure. So someone got snookered. I think the best thing to do would be for people to contact Kingsnake and complain. They have a 3 complaint policy and your out! These people are a definite loosing enterprise.

 

[gmherps]

Since I see Ray is posting ads, but can't stop by to answer some questions, I'll take it upon myself to bump this thread up.

 

[Crested Lady]

Well, I went to Allen Rapeshy's site. He had an open chat tonight at 7:00 P.S.T. I asked him if was possible to temp sex crests. His answer was short but to the point. No, to his knowledge it cannot be done, was his reply. So Ray was caught in yet another lie. It is not possible to temperature sex crested geckos in the incubator, during incubation. Now if you care to dispute this information, feel free. But I think we would all agree that Allen Rapeshy is a great expert in this field when it comes to crested geckos. So Ray, do you care to comment on why you lied to this good lady? Kati, I also asked Allen about what age they could be sexed. He agreed 4-5 months would be the earliest. Of course popping could be done, but not recommended.

Repashy is right about the TDSD. (Temperature-Dependent Sex Determination). While some breeders claim a higher female to male ratio when incubating at cooler temps... there's no way to guarantee that the geckos will turn out female since the ratio is still so close. One, two, or possibly all THREE of those "ladies" could turn out to be male. Despite breeders trying different methods, no one has been able to significantly change the 50/50 ratio.

The best way to sex cresteds? Of course you can always wait for "The Bulge" to appear, you can compare the size of the cloacal spurs (NOT an accurate method), or you can use a 10x photography loupe to check for pre-anal pores when the gecko is about 3" snout-to-vent length. You can also try popping, but this should only be done by an experienced breeder.

 

[Justin Mitcham]

After reading all these threads on this guy I went to visit his website. I see his adds on the net daily, this guy obviuosly has no intentions of replying to you. I visited his testimonial pages, what a laugh, I wonder how many of those he wrote himself??

 

[Bill & Amy]

After reading all these threads on this guy I went to visit his website. I see his adds on the net daily, this guy obviuosly has no intentions of replying to you. I visited his testimonial pages, what a laugh, I wonder how many of those he wrote himself??

I wouldnt doubt he has some satisfied customers, but then again I chalk that up to "even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in awhile"!!!