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Red Pastel Hypo Female..anyone heard of one?

K

klsl

klsl
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Has anyone seen or heard of this color boa? I recently purchased a boa and the papers said "Red Pastel Hypo Boa". They also said this line originated from Jeff Gee. It's a mixture of "something." Not being a breeder and the guy I got it from is not a breeder, can someone explain what was bred to what to get this color? It's a beautiful snake! Only 6 months old. Thanks!
 
a pastel ,in boas is just a case of selective breeding but a hypo is a co-dominant morph ,meaning its in the genes
so when someone breeds boas to have low speckling and not that much black this is a term people are using called pastel
so someone could breed a hypo morph to the pastel and get a hypo with an even lighter cleaner look
so yes is the answer
you can have a pastel hypo
but it isnt two separate morph like it is made to sound like
hope this helps
Eric Naylor
 
Like Eric said, Pastels are selectively bred for their clean, high color and reduced patterns. They were originally just plain 'ol Colombians, but have been added to others now in hopes of passing that on.

The Hypo's (or Salmons anyway) were produced originally from a Colombian, and Panamanian boa, and is a trait you can actually predict, and plan upon. But I believe it is a Dominant trait, not Codominant. If it was codominant, the super form wouldn't be sold as possibles, because you would see the difference immediately.
I used to think along the codominant theory also, but have since been, ah, re-educated on the subject. LOL

But yes, I have heard of the snake you are purchasing. They do exist, and are a nice looking snake in most cases.

Rick
 
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I was always under the impression that salmons/hypos were a co-dom mainly because when you breed to a normal, you get normal, and you get salmon/hypo... Hence, the co-dom. If you breed 2 salmons/hypos, you will get normals, salmons, and possibly super salmons/hypos.... If you breed a super form of salmon to a normal, you should get all salmon, hence, the super... I think the reason the super form is sold alot as a "possible" because some salmons/hypos are so clean to begin with it is a gamble to go out on a limb and say that it is in fact a super when it could just be a very clean salmon/hypo.... This is my understanding on this genetics thing... I am not even close to understanding it all, so please feel free to fill me in.... What have you seen that would convince you that a salmon is a dominant rather than a co-dom? I am very interested in finding out more mainly because that is what I am working with at the moment... thanks...
 
Biscuit71 said:
I am not even close to understanding it all, so please feel free to fill me in.... What have you seen that would convince you that a salmon is a dominant rather than a co-dom?
Click to expand...
I'd like to know too Rick. Can you help us out please. :)
 
M.Dwight said:
I'd like to know too Rick. Can you help us out please. :)
Click to expand...

That one goes on the calendar Mark. :rofl:



OK, lets see if I learned anything here. (Can't blame it on HS, that was 23 years ago :rolleyes: )

First understand that Dominant, Codominant and Recessive are describing a relationship between a gene pair at any given locus on a chromosome.

A Salmon hypo is what you would call a visual Het. Meaning, its trait, being Dominant to WT will show up if present, but it is also Het for WT. (Het just means the genes are not identicle, but different at that given allele, or locus. Hetero means different) So a Salmon is a Heterozygote. It can pass on a WT, or a Salmon gene. Same with a Salmon to Salmon. They both have a WT gene that they also can pass on. Luck of the draw which gets passed on to who. LOL

A super Salmon, (I prefer Double Dose cuz of the term Super being used for Codominat genes) is a Homozygous Salmon. It's not going to have a WT gene to pass on, but two identicle Salmon genes (Homo means the same). So when you breed a Homozygous salmon to a WT, ALL offspring receive a Salmon gene, since the parent has two of them to pass, and no WT gene.
That should answer why you get normals when bred to a Salmon, and not when bred to a Homozygous (Super) Salmon.

With a Codominant gene, you will always have the possibility of a third phenotype. Example, if you bred a motley to a WT, you get some WT and some motleys. Why?, Motleys are Heterzygotes also. If you bred two motleys you get WT, and motleys, and Super Motleys, because they are Het for WT also. And anyone, experienced or not, can see three different phenotypes (outward appearance). And the same rule apply's to a Super Motley. It's Homozygous, so it has identicle alleles, and must pass one on. So you get all Motleys when Super is bred to WT.

You can see an obvious difference between Motleys and Super Motleys right? This is a proven Codominant trait. And fits the definition of Codominant as well.
With a Salmon, you do not SEE the difference between the homozygous and heterozygous forms (it MUST be obvious, or drastic difference), or else they would not be sold as possibly super. So by definition, it cannot be a Codominant mutation.

There are also different degrees of Dominant I believe. I forget the actual word to describe a Salmon gene, but it's variable, and affects not just color but patterns as well.

Forgive My layman's explanation, but that's just me. It'd take me three hours if I tried to get all geeky like. LOL

Don't know if I passed or not, but that's what's coming out of my mind right now. We'll have to see what the Professor says. HA HA HA

How 'bout it Mark? Did I get it right? (BTW, Mr. M. Dwight knows this stuff pretty well. But he don't fool me none ;) )


Rick
 
so what your saying is that a supersalmon is just a homozygous but not a codominant mutant gene?
even though the supersalmon gene is a dominant gene?
and a salmon that doesnt produce all salmons in a litter would be a codominant with both normal and salmon dominant genes
wow
now i need to go put my head in some ice to cool it down
lol
:blowup:

Eric
 
crotalusadamanteus said:
But he don't fool me none ;) )
Rick
Click to expand...
he he he. I already knew that. :yesnod:

Looks to me like you understand better than me. :thumbsup: I pass the genetics torch to you. From now on you can explain it. :rofl:
 
ericfire said:
so what your saying is that a supersalmon is just a homozygous but not a codominant mutant gene?
even though the supersalmon gene is a dominant gene?
and a salmon that doesnt produce all salmons in a litter would be a codominant with both normal and salmon dominant genes
wow
now i need to go put my head in some ice to cool it down
lol
:blowup:

Eric
Click to expand...

Nope! It aint that hard though.
The gene of a Salmon acts Dominant to WT. If it is present it will express it's self. Whether it has one or two salmon genes (hetero or homo) it will still just look like a salmon. No real outward difference. This makes it a Dominant trait, and NOT codominant at all.

A motley gene is also Dominant to WT. (still a form of dominance) If it is present it will express it's self . Whether it has one or two Motley genes (Hetero or Homo) But if it has two genes, it's Super (Homo), it will look vastly different than the Motley (hetero). This makes it Codominant.

In order for a gene to be Codominant, it must be able to produce three different phenotypes. You can SEE the difference in Motley (hetero) and Super Motley (Homo). You cannot tell by appearance a Salmon (hetero) from a Super Salmon (homo). So this makes Salmons a Dominant trait.


See what happens when the teacher makes the student stand up in front of the class? :rolleyes:


Hope that didn't confuse you even more.
Rick
 
ok so a super salmon would have to look incredibly orange or pink and orange
what ever colors but very different than a normal hypo(salmon ) gene
codom has to be an increased type of that color morph
ok
i can see that
dawn breaks on marble head
thanks rick
Eric
 
ericfire said:
ok so a super salmon would have to look incredibly orange or pink and orange
what ever colors but very different than a normal hypo(salmon ) gene
codom has to be an increased type of that color morph
ok
i can see that
dawn breaks on marble head
thanks rick
Eric
Click to expand...

Yeah Sorta. Or something like no pattern on a consistent basis, or fullbody stripes. Something to make a vast difference.

Like CA Motleys. The super form is black. Looks nothing like a normal CA Motley. That's codominance.
 
i wonder if it would be possible for some form of the salmon gene to become ,well not become but if there was a salmon type of gene out there that would be codominant
it might make for a heck of a nice snake
im dreaming i know but you never know
here's for hoping
Eric
 
A Codominant Salmon type gene would be pretty cool. Never know what it may look like though. Might surprise you and have NO color. LOL
 
WOW! This is complicated...my head hurts too..LOL

Seems like I proposed an interesting question when I asked if anyone had heard of a Red Pastel Hypo Boa. Why are they calling it "Red"? That's what confused me. Does "Red" mean Salmon? I'm not a breeder, so all of these explanations are so confusing!! I'm getting the boa tomorrow...guess I'll see what she looks like for sure! Thanks for all of the replies too!! :thumbsup:
 
crotalusadamanteus said:
With a Salmon, you do not SEE the difference between the homozygous and heterozygous forms (it MUST be obvious, or drastic difference), or else they would not be sold as possibly super.
Rick
Click to expand...
Do they call them that because I may possibly be disappointed in the breeding outcome? :D
 
klsl said:
Seems like I proposed an interesting question when I asked if anyone had heard of a Red Pastel Hypo Boa. Why are they calling it "Red"? That's what confused me. Does "Red" mean Salmon? I'm not a breeder, so all of these explanations are so confusing!! I'm getting the boa tomorrow...guess I'll see what she looks like for sure! Thanks for all of the replies too!! :thumbsup:
Click to expand...

Sometimes it's a ploy to add a little value, sometimes they are actually red. LOL Mines just a Salmon, but he has some red AND some orange..............

Sammy8-27-06_2.jpg


Many Salmons do increase the amount of red as they age. Check out some adults against neonates, and you'll see what I mean. Some more drastic than others too. I believe Bob Woodard (Griz) has a really red Salmon Hypo.

Hopefully yours will be a Red one. I just like red better than orange, but color is nice on anything. LOL If it's pastel, it shouuld be very colorful regardless though. Seems to add to things.


And yes Mark, you may "possibly" be disappointed in a "Possible" super if you bred it. ;) Especially if you are hoping for the super, and it doesn't happen. :D
To me a possible Super is just a Salmon until it is proven to be homozygous. Not worth anymore because of the "possible" part. Many will disagree though.


Sorry for taking over the thread. Wish you luck on your purchase, and would love to see pics when ya get it.

Rick
 
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