"Red-Tailed" Boas

[pitbulllady]

Recently, a member here who also posts on another site, posted videos of her Boas being fed live mice. Now, the live-feeding issue aside, she identified these as "Red-Tailed" Boas. They were obviously BCI's, Colombian Boas. Now, I am a stickler when it comes to the moniker "Red-Tailed" Boas; I know that to some people, including many who sell snakes here on FC, ANY snake in the genus and species Boa constrictor is a "Red-Tailed" Boa, regardless of locale or subspecies, but being more a purist I only use that term to refer to snakes in the BCC classifications-the Surinames, Guyanans, North Brazilians, etc. If you see the two side-by-side, there is a clear difference. A "Red-Tailed" Boa is a BCC, and a Common Boa is a BCI. The poster of the video was highly offended that I suggested her Boas were NOT "true Red-Tails", even after I provided information as to how to tell the difference. Her arguement was that she bought them from someone who advertizes here, who has a good rating in the BOI, therefore that person could not possibly have mislead anyone or lied about the snakes being "true Red-Tails". She claimed that I was insinuating that they weren't worth anything because they were Colombian or Common Boas, even though I'd explained that I was doing nothing of the sort. A Motley Colombian or a Super-Jungle Colombian is still not a "Red-Tailed" Boa, but it's more costly and worth more than my Suriname import, which IS a true "Red-Tail". I tried to explain that the term "Red-Tail" was, for the most part, an advertizing gimmick concocted by the pet industry to sell animals, but this person seems to believe that the "Red-Tail" label makes a snake more valuable or more desirable, while Boas which aren't "Red-Tails" are worthless.

I am someone who calls a spade a spade. I don't mince words, and I don't molly-coddle. I'm also a stickler for labels when it comes to honestly representing animals. An Asian elephant is NOT the same as an African elephant, and I don't have any problem straightening out someone who calls an Asian elephant an African elephant. I don't have any problem correcting someone who refers to a 120-lb. wrinkly blue behemoth of a dog as a "pit bull"; it makes no difference to me if you paid $1800.00 for it with "papers" claiming it was a "pit bull", it's still NOT. I'm not going to call a Colombian Boa or a Nicaraguan Boa or a Sonoran Boa a "Red-Tail" just to sell it or because "everyone else is doing it", either, not when I can put it next to a Suriname and see a clear difference.

So, what say y'all on this issue-"Red-Tailed" Boas vs. Common Boas?

pitbulllady

 

[gsrept]

i would agree with you in that there is a clear difference between BCI and BCC and i would have to say it really is not a marketing thing being the common boa being a lot cheaper than the later. I think because they show similar traits is why they have been lumped into that discription. but i would agree that the BCI or BCC title should be used when selling them. good post.

 

[pitbulllady]

Well, REGULAR old everyday Colombian Boas ARE a lot cheaper than BCC's, that's for sure, but then you have all the "designer" morphs of Colombians, like the Jungles and Motleys, which can really jack the price up, but it still does not make them anything other than Colombian Boas! They are still NOT "Red-Tails". I have to politely disagree about the tendency of some people to label ALL Boa Constrictors as "Red-Tails" not being a marketing/sales ploy, though. Otherwise, why would a seller refer to Colombians as "Red-Tails" at all, if not to try and get more money for them? If buyers like this woman I referred to in my original post obviously believe that "Red-Tailed" Boas are more valuable than Boas which aren't "Red-Tails", they are willing to spend more money for them, even though there is no difference at all between the snake being marketed as a "Red-Tail" and a virtually-identical Colombian Boa being sold as...a COLOMBIAN Boa! They might even have been littermates, but gullible people will still believe that the one labeled "Red-Tail" is somehow worth more money and be willing to spend more for it. An honest seller who is truly knowledgeable about the Boa constrictor complex and the differences between the various subspecies would not-at least I'd hope not-market ordinary Colombians as "Red-Tailed" Boas. I DO see it happen a lot, though. I don't know if it's from "habit", because they just see and hear the term, "Red-Tail" so much, if they are just trying to wring an extra buck or two out of the animals, or if they really do not know that there ARE differences. I myself prefer to use locality names, given that the "Red-Tail" label is so confusing and often misleading, but I do know that the general consensus among serious breeders and among importers is that the REAL "Red-Tailed" Boas are those in the BCC group, not the BCI's. It might be nit-picking, but it's like the difference between a Mustang and a Mustang GT; if you're a real Mustang afficianado, there most definitely IS a difference! If I were a big fan of Mustangs, I'd be a bit bothered if every car with a horsie on it was called a "Mustang GT", regardless of the engine, whether it was super-charged, etc. If I myself drove and owned a Mustang V6 and kept calling it a "GT V8", and someone called me on the discrepancy, it would be rather foolish of me to get mad and accuse them of talking down about my ride or insinuating that it was worthless, wouldn't it, when all they were doing was telling me the truth?

pitbulllady

 

[gsrept]

i would totally agree with you. the problem lies with people not doing there home work when they make a purchase. Remember most newbies or folks that have not been in it long make a lot of impulse buys. sometimes good and sometimes not so for the hobby in whole thats why florida is having the problems they are.

 

[Gary O]

How can something be a TRUE COMMON NAME?

Red Tail Boa was a name given to the boas with a redish tail.....

That is whay I go with LOCALE then Boa...... ANd I put BCI or BCC next to it....

The true redtail thing is stupid IMO...

 

[Gary O]

YOu really want to get down to it there is only

BCI and BCC.... What makes one locale worth more then another... I mean... We are talking about a common name here........

 

[gsrept]

I really coud not tell you why they get more for one than the other could be supply and demand could be harder to export out of the country they are from. but it is easier to describe them with either columbian, peruvian surinam ect,ect. i think it is no different than surinam emerald tree boas and amazon basin emeralds basically same snake one is just more desired than the other.

 

[Crazy4Herps]

I never call BCI "red tails", but I don't have a problem with others calling them red tails as long as they know that a BCI is not actually a red tail. It upsets me when BCI are sold as red tails without specifying the subspecies, but honestly I don't think the name is worth much. Anyone who knows boas will understand the worth/difference between a BCI and a BCC, no matter what you call them.

As for the worth of a BCI vs a BCC, I don't actually have a preference. All mutations aside, I've seen "normal" BCI that I find much nicer looking than some individual BCC. But then again I doubt there's a BCI out there that can beat a nice Peruvian BCC of reputable lineage.

 

[pitbulllady]

I never call BCI "red tails", but I don't have a problem with others calling them red tails as long as they know that a BCI is not actually a red tail. It upsets me when BCI are sold as red tails without specifying the subspecies, but honestly I don't think the name is worth much. Anyone who knows boas will understand the worth/difference between a BCI and a BCC, no matter what you call them.

As for the worth of a BCI vs a BCC, I don't actually have a preference. All mutations aside, I've seen "normal" BCI that I find much nicer looking than some individual BCC. But then again I doubt there's a BCI out there that can beat a nice Peruvian BCC of reputable lineage.

Well, that is more or less the issue in the debate with this other woman. She apparently paid a pretty hefty price for she and her husband were TOLD were "Red-Tailed Boas", when it's obvious that the snakes in question are in fact, Colombians. They are nice, but still not spectacular-not reputed to be of any particular "morph", just nice normal Colombians. Her argument hinges on "if we paid $XXXX for them and bought them from someone who has a good rating on the BOI, they MUST be "True Red-Tails", for surely this person would not sell plain old common Colombian Boas for $XXXX, so you're either calling me or this honorable reptile seller liars" She stated that I was "not nice" for pointing out the differences between her BCI's and BCC's. I am not sure if she is stating that her snakes ARE still "Red-Tails" even though acknowledging that they're BCI's, or that they are BCC's, though. I even referred to an earlier post I'd made on the same forum in which I photographed one of my Colombians and one of my Surinames side by side, to show the obvious differences, after another poster had asked how to tell which was which. After she accused me of being "mean" and "nasty" for pointing those differences out and calling her snakes "Colombian Boas", I invited her to post their pics here in the Boa section to get a consensus as to whether they were Colombians/BCI's or BCC's.

I, too, prefer to use locales when referring to my own snakes, even though I will refer to BCC's as "Red-Tails", given that they really DO have red tails, rather than orangish or brownish ones, but locale is more important to me than a term which is basically a marketing ploy. In comparison to my Surinames, none of my Colombians, not even my Jungles or Pastels, can even come close insofar as that deep velvety red coloration on their tails goes, though. When I took my Ronne Pastel female and my Suriname female to school last week for our annual "Snake Day"(year two, becoming a tradition I plan to uphold), even my students could tell that there were obvious differences between the two, and the Pastel is a really nice specimen.

pitbulllady

 

[crotalusadamanteus]

You're upset about something that started back in the 70's. They had names when I started keeping them. Peru Boa Constrictor, Suriname Boa Constrictor, Colombian Boa Constrictor, etc.

Turns out that some people thought the word Constrictor would scare off potential customers, so the term Colombian Boa, or Red Tailed Boa became the common name for almost all of them.

This has been going on for ever, and it's hard to turn people away from it. You'll go nuts trying.

My pet peeve is the word Columbia when referring to a Boa. Would that be Washington, or South Carolina?