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Reflections on the use of the BOI

WebSlave

It is what it is, but certainly not what it was.
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You know, I have stated often that the BOI needs to be pretty rough and tumble, and the rules concerning attacks and higher levels of cross examination (yeah sometimes even personal attacks), need to be allowed there because such pressure will oftentimes push a bad guy to displaying their true selves to all of the viewers.

Well, I need to reconsider this. I am personally under attack, and I feel I probably have much more self control then a lot of people. Not patting myself on the back, it's just that my skin has gotten abnormally thick from running this site. And honestly, it is quite difficult to keep this control in check from constant badgering and repetition of the same arguments being presented. I can easily see where anyone, no matter what the truth of the matter in a business deal may be, would have a very tough time keeping their cool under constant fire. As such, perhaps the pressure is allowed to reach a level that is more then it should be. Perhaps I am just flat out wrong in allowing it to get to the levels that I thought were necessary to make the BOI effective.

Quite frankly, I am coming more and more to the conclusion that people, if not just solely within this business, cannot be trusted with the freedom to openly and continually bash someone else with free abandon.

The issue, of course, is how to know what point is appropriate to applying the brakes? Honestly, from what I have seen lately, I believe it will be better to err on the side of courtesy rather than the side of open antagonism. Not only has this been a continual complaint of many people who dislike the BOI for this atmosphere, but I am certain that quite a lot of participation has been squelched because of the fear of such attacks.

I believe the time has come to reduce that sort of characterization that the BOI has become to a lot of people. It is time to PUSH harder to make the BOI more professional and less combative and a mud wrestling ring to all involved. Granted, I tried to do this once before, with a lot of resistance to it, but I believe I tried to make that change too abruptly and too harsh in the penalties for even the first infraction. But change it must. I honestly do not have any faith any longer in the abilities of most people to be able to handle unfettered freedom of expression. I am certainly disappointed by this conclusion I have had to come to, but the conclusion is certainly inescapable, which means the steps I need to take are unavoidable.

But do it I must. Yes, there will certainly be people who will not like the change in atmosphere and the resultant restrictions on their antagonistic personas online, but that is simply unfortunate as well as their wants being irrelevant. They can either adapt, move on, or be evicted.

This really won't be any noticeable change to those people who don't already have this antagonistic slant to their posting, but perhaps your reading pleasure may be noticeably reduced when those more colorful individuals have their postings needfully reduced in color in order to remain here.

Pretty much personal attacks that have nothing at all to do with the business incident at hand will be restricted to the point of being unacceptable. Blatant harassment, especially across multiple threads will need to be curtailed. Basically I just want to clean up the joint to make the BOI effective but not so fearsome that most people are afraid to actually use it for the purposes it was intended.

Of course, I am just typing this off the cuff and haven't ironed out all of the details, but I wanted to get this off my chest while it is still fresh in my mind.
 
:iagree:

Although I am guilty of enjoying some of the sillier BOI threads where sharp wits come out, I agree that this type of personal abusive commentary doesn't help the cause.

It can (as you, Rich, are obviously experiencing right now) push the calmest of people into ugly rhetoric, often totally detracts from the point of the thread, and frequently causes at least one of the essential participants to prematurely leave the discussion.

I'd suggest that ONLY those who have had personal (and documentable) experience with the subject of a BOI thread be allowed to post, so that if you YOURSELF had a valid experience with the subject, you post it, and are allowed to include your personal feelings on the subject, as long as it follows the current rules re abusive language.

However, those who come in just to say "that's shocking, let's lynch him" be disallowed, whatever language they couch it in. (Maybe these comments can be diverted into a side thread in "Hell", so that the entertainment factor is maintained.)
 
I don't think posting should be restricted to just the buyer and the seller.

If the buyer & seller could work it out between themselves the BOI wouldn't be necessary.
A lot of times the buyer doesn't have the depth of knowledge to ask some of the pertinent questions.
Sometimes the buyer has unrealistic expectations of what the seller is responsible for.
Sometimes the buyer has acted in what they thought was the best interest of the animal but have actually harmed it.
Sometimes it's easier for an unbiased eye to catch discrepancies in a story.
There's more but this has been covered else where.
 
Yes, but you could include other people who had personal experiences with the same person who the thread is about.

So you'd allow comments such as "I bought from **** 3 years ago and it was great" or " He ripped me off too, he is a scam artist", but only from those who it had actually happened to, NOT such comments as " he spells badly, obviously he's a retard", funny as that may be. (And I've been guilty of that myself, carried away by the fun of it all...)
 
Such an enforcement would be impossible to do. I think things just need to be toned down to a more respectable level. I know I prefer even the most heated discussions to be emtpy of invective and derogatory personal slurs, and I'm sure most other people do as well. Lord only knows how many words I have deleted that I typed out in anger, but resisted that SUBMIT key. All it would have done would be to make things much worse, and then spin out of control from the actual topic at hand.

** Darn! This jumping from one login to the other is getting away from me... **
 
Also impossible, but....

wouldn't it be nice if it WERE possible to have a compulsory delay between composition and final submission on all BOI threads? A time out for due consideration! :D
 
Such an enforcement would be impossible to do. I think things just need to be toned down to a more respectable level. I know I prefer even the most heated discussions to be emtpy of invective and derogatory personal slurs, and I'm sure most other people do as well. Lord only knows how many words I have deleted that I typed out in anger, but resisted that SUBMIT key. All it would have done would be to make things much worse, and then spin out of control from the actual topic at hand.

** Darn! This jumping from one login to the other is getting away from me... **

Think you're pretty safe with that statement no matter who you're here as :)
 
One problem is the additional time it will take to tone things down. Most people will likely be more careful with a little encouragement, I myself used some strong language to address someone in another thread recently, but that is uncommon for me. Knowing that you want to tone things down, I'll certainly try for a few deep breaths prior to hitting the 'submit' button.
But there is a small but loud cadre of those who simply like to disrupt; some disrupt because they enjoy the mud pit atmosphere, but more ominously, some disrupt to harm this site. A few gentle reminders won't change those who comprise this group, they are inexhaustible and will simply try to wear out those who attempt to redirect them.
 
Rich, is there any way to perhaps have a "report" button enabled in the forum where other members can choose to report inappropriate posts with the click of a button? I'm not sure which forum engine you're using, so I'm not sure if it's an option or not for you. Of course, it could be easily abused and you could be spammed with notifications, but if enforcement is difficult it may be best to let other members (limited to contributors only may be a good idea here) be your eyes and ears if trouble is brewing. I'm an admin on another forum and this has really helped me keep track of what's going on. You can only spread yourself so thin.

Your patience held out longer than most. I know the thread you're talking about, and I simply stopped reading it because it had gotten ridiculously out of hand. People get so wound up in these arguments that all restraint goes out the window. I was getting frustrated and angry, so I stopped before I became part of the fracas.

But yes, I left for about a year because I was so irritated with people within the BOI. It seems that only a single, unconfirmed accusation is all it takes to set some people off into a full blown and unwarranted rant. Maybe to slow the BOI arguing down you could implement a posting delay? Like, one post per user for every 10-30 minutes or so? It could prevent BOI threads from getting so long and could give people some time to cool down before posting again.
 
I'm sorry I am so ignorant of what can and cannot be done on sites such as this, please discard this immediately if I'm wasting time.

There was once a program that gave you "Chillie pepper" ratings as you typed emails, to alert you that you were using certain emotive words and maybe should rethink. Is there any way that an auto-feedback response to certain words can bounce back to a poster if they send a post containing inflammatory words?
 
But there is a small but loud cadre of those who simply like to disrupt; some disrupt because they enjoy the mud pit atmosphere, but more ominously, some disrupt to harm this site. A few gentle reminders won't change those who comprise this group, they are inexhaustible and will simply try to wear out those who attempt to redirect them.
That would be a doomed effort, given the current infraction system. There are automatic bans at intervals, and the threshold for a permanent ban is only 30 points. They add up fairly quickly; and, if somebody is being a real pain in the butt, we can speed the process along. Generally speaking, by the time somebody gets the 30 day ban, one of two things will have happened: they will decide that continued access is worth modifying their approach, or we (the moderation team) will decide that we are tired of their crap. Either way, the problem is generally resolved pretty quickly at that point.

What does tend to be a problem, as Rich mentioned, is defining that line. If people don't know where it is, it can be hard to fault them for crossing it. And if a couple of people are skillfully hanging their toes over the edge, just for the sport of it, it's not uncommon for others to try to join the party. Then, we're looking at a mess, and trying to decide where things went bad...who do we smack, and how hard?
Also, while the reason for not removing a problematic post is generally understood, in practice, it compounds the problem because that post iss just sitting right there...tempting people to comment, join in, retaliate, whatever. Even the occasional comic relief post can be quite disruptive. I like a smartass comment as much as anybody, but they're contagious.
 
I probably can't provide any rational input on this issue right at the moment. I'm feeling positively MEAN lately...........
 
Kind and gentle......I can do that!

Actually you have already come a long way, baby... A year ago I would have taken heavy odds betting that you would be banned from here by now.

Thanks for making that effort.
 
Actually you have already come a long way, baby... A year ago I would have taken heavy odds betting that you would be banned from here by now.

Thanks for making that effort.

Thank you for putting up with me. I know I was driving you up the wall.

I love being a member here, its a privilege. I never want to be on the outside looking in.

If others feel the same way I do, they can easily make the change too.
 
Pretty much personal attacks that have nothing at all to do with the business incident at hand will be restricted to the point of being unacceptable. Blatant harassment, especially across multiple threads will need to be curtailed. Basically I just want to clean up the joint to make the BOI effective but not so fearsome that most people are afraid to actually use it for the purposes it was intended.

:hurray:
 
Thank you for putting up with me. I know I was driving you up the wall.

I love being a member here, its a privilege. I never want to be on the outside looking in.

If others feel the same way I do, they can easily make the change too.

Well, since I can't find the kleenex, I guess I can make the change also.

The only problem I had with Chuck was, his kindergarten comments abt me, and others, however, many, many times. I had his back, as he has an uncanny abilitity to "read btw the lines" on various posts, and it's hard to disagree with his rational when he ferret's out the "problem" of posts.

Mike Curtain is another one that's good at doing that. DAND, (Dave Gruning) misses the mark, altogether. IMO.
Sorry DAND,in my opinion, you seem to come in late on posts, and when the problem is close to being solved, you agree whichever way the flow is going, thus, you create the illusion that you were "right" all along.
That being stated, it's only my opinion, so don't get your panties in a wad.

Randal Berry
 
We are all not always going to get along, but its important for us to remember that we are on the same side.

I respect Rich and I respect his vision for what he'd like his to be.

Randal, dont name names like that in a post on the fauna feedback forum you knucklehead. Its a forum for feedback about fauna, not your personal feelings about other members. Stuff like that can launch a war in here and its exactly what Rich is trying to detract from this site.

Not that your feelings don't count, but my idea is we make a thread Hell where we can all lay out our feelings for one another and what puts each of us off about each other. Maybe we'll understand where we all stand and not do the things that get us clawing at each others throats in other vital areas of the board.
 
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