Bad Guy Repticon EXTREEMELY BAD FOR THE REPTILE INDUSTRY

[coldblooded_novelties]

If you were a feeder vendor that worked the same two shows every year and built a good customer base; how would you feel about Repticon taking over that show and then booting you out for they're exclusive vendor?
Turn it around- You have just a few animals and stock up every 6 months at the shows with the same guy you have bought from for years. Quality and prices are great. You show up one year and now your regular guy is gone. Replaced by higher prices and questionable quality for simple fact you do not know this vendor (not implying current vendor has low quality) and it's an unpleasant surprise.
Now one can look to other places or just sell their animals or whatever. I know, their show; their rules. Tough luck right?
My question is; does that sound like something one that cares about the industry and community would do? Or comradery be damned now pay up?
Just my two pennies. Keep the change for what it's worth.

Stop making sense Blue lol

 

[TriangleReptiles]

Just Think if Rich gave us the opportunity to "Like" other posts!!! I could of just clicked Like......or is this some sort of Patented phrase?? HaHa

He did...it's called Karma. For contributing members only

 

[hhmoore]

He did...it's called Karma. For contributing members only

Sorry, to distract from the actual topic of the thread;but I wanted to point out that the karma system is available to all members...it's just that only contributors can give negative karma.

 

[KORBIN5895]

Stop making sense Blue lol

Just because he is making "sense" still doesn't make repticon a bad guy.

One thing I see that is terribly depressing is the misconception that an exclusive vendor is stopping "free market" pricing. Am I missing something that says you have to buy your feeders from the repticon show or are you guys making up grand statements to back up your pathetic whining? I am pretty sure you can choose to purchase your feeders elsewhere so there is still a free market.

Please show me where repticon is doing something wrong or stop complain about fantom wrongs.

 

[CarolinaClassicDragons]

You were not at the meeting so do not know what points were brought up. You are unable to either state what was said in particular and more important, you are unable to state what answers were given.

Maybe you are banking on the fact that the snarky little barb you included would stop me from replying.
As far as I am concerned, your claim was a lie, because you can't (or won't) back up your claim of 'plenty of conversations'.
If you'd lie here, I'm thinking you'd lie elsewhere in your business dealings. Not a good reflection on you, now is it?

I have learned over the past few years that nothing will stop you from replying Lucille. I told you that I was part of a group of vendors that had very thorough discussions about concerns we all had. There were phone calls and emails and PM's, etc. discussing these concerns that we wanted to present to Billy. The biggest concern was the exclusivity contracts over feeders (both frozen rodents and insects)and sand boas. As I said before, I personally couldn't make the upcoming Columbia show but the meeting with Billy and those attending did take place.

I have brought up my concerns over show locations and frequency of shows to Monica and others on the Repticon staff over the last couple of years. These conversations weren't anything formal. Just providing feedback so that we could all work together on promoting herpetoculture and all enjoy success in doing so. I have tried to do my part and more. I have received promotional flyers from Repticon and personally driven around town delivering them to a variety of businesses. I have promoted them on my business' Facebook page on many occasion. I say this because I want to make one thing clear. I want Repticon and every other show promoter out there to be successful. I want the vendors to be successful. BUT, we can't, and won't, if we don't put our heads together and make smart business decisions. In my opinion, they aren't making smart business decisions and I know I am not alone.

 

[CarolinaClassicDragons]

Just because he is making "sense" still doesn't make repticon a bad guy.

One thing I see that is terribly depressing is the misconception that an exclusive vendor is stopping "free market" pricing. Am I missing something that says you have to buy your feeders from the repticon show or are you guys making up grand statements to back up your pathetic whining? I am pretty sure you can choose to purchase your feeders elsewhere so there is still a free market.

Please show me where repticon is doing something wrong or stop complain about fantom wrongs.

Have you ever taken an economics course? Supply/Demand mean anything to you? Do you think you might just get a better deal on frozen rodents if there were multiple vendors in the same room competing for the same business? Sure you can purchase your feeders elsewhere but the point of this whole thing is to get customers into the show!!! Repticon wants foot traffic and we the vendors want foot traffic. Customers want good deals and a selection.

I will give you an example... I purchased a box of 1000 1/2" crickets on Saturday to feed our dragons at the show. My box contained numerous 3/4" and fully developed winged crickets. Think I would want to buy from that vendor again? NO. Did I have a choice. NO. Think I may have paid a little less had another cricket breeder or dubia breeder been able to set up? I think so.

 

[KORBIN5895]

Have you ever taken an economics course? Supply/Demand mean anything to you? Do you think you might just get a better deal on frozen rodents if there were multiple vendors in the same room competing for the same business? Sure you can purchase your feeders elsewhere but the point of this whole thing is to get customers into the show!!! Repticon wants foot traffic and we the vendors want foot traffic. Customers want good deals and a selection.

I will give you an example... I purchased a box of 1000 1/2" crickets on Saturday to feed our dragons at the show. My box contained numerous 3/4" and fully developed winged crickets. Think I would want to buy from that vendor again? NO. Did I have a choice. NO. Think I may have paid a little less had another cricket breeder or dubia breeder been able to set up? I think so.

I actually have taken a few courses on economics. I understand marketing and sales very well.

I understand that several vendors can keep the prices down at the show but the show vendors still have to compete with the online sales market and the local breeders. You should really think about shopping around and finding the best prices.

Your example still isn't showing me how repticon is a bad guy and deserves a bad guy thread. Also your opinion of there business practices fails to show that they're deserving of this thread. Please tell me where you have had a bad business transaction with these people and stop beating around the bush.

 

[hhmoore]

Just because he is making "sense" still doesn't make repticon a bad guy....................
Please show me where repticon is doing something wrong or stop complain about fantom wrongs.

Nobody has to agree with the labels applied in any BOI thread; that does not mean the label itself is up for ongoing debate (I've already posted about this in this thread). If you want to say something positive about Repticon, please feel free to do so - that would be far more productive than what amounts to convince me or shut up.
Maybe I'm reading too much into some of these posts, or I'm just already sensitized because I expected this thread to have issues. I'm not trying to discourage relevant discussion. I don't have a problem with somebody saying these things don't make Repticon bad because.....

 

[Herps Alive!]

But the problem is that it's not supporting itself. I've been going to shows for the past 6 years, except for recently. Because there isn't a reason to go. The number of vendors is shrinking as well as the number and quality of animals available. I went to the first Winston show last year or the year before. It was in a room the size of most gas stations and the majority of the people there were not even selling reptiles. Which is really the point of the expos unless I'm terribly mistaken. Not to mention that if you look around at the customers very few people are buying anything.

Having never been to a Repticon show before, but hearing all the hype, I left a day early from Ohio on a business trip so I could attend this show. Not only is the above poster correct (although the room was slightly larger than a gas station), but several vendors could not tell me if their animals were male or female, let alone spell common names properly on their labels. I assumed the Repticon promoted show would have a high level of professionalism from its vendors. It did not.

As to the business model, people I often wonder which promoters are more concerned about -- vendors or attendees. In many markets, there are so many "lookers" (it's cheaper than the zoo and you get to touch the animals) that they make more money from that than from the vendors. As long as that continues, shows in mid-size markets will expand.

I would love to see part of a show admission feereturned as a credit. For instance charge $10 admission, which includes a $5 show credit at any vendor. That gives the true buyers a break and cuts down on the number of gawkers who pay $10.

While Repticon may no longer be the ideal model, the market will shake itself out.

 

[Keith Northrop]

PERFECT MODEL............CO-OP Style...........What will happen is Evolution..........In My Fantasy Reptile Show.........All vendors are part owners of the Show..........Door Money Split back to the Vendor/Owners! Haha Right.

 

[Phil Bradley]

As a hobbyist vendor I have to admit that my Raleigh sales numbers are equal, if not greater, than previous years under different ownership. I do not have the overhead that the larger companies deal with and I can understand their frustration in trying to turn a profit however it sucked for us little guys back in the day talking to potential customers for hours only to see them walk to one of the large, out of state businesses and spend their money on cheaper imported animals. It certainly didn't help when so many folks converted their collections to a single species, the tables became a boring monoculture of BPs, Leos, and Cresties.

To be fair I do miss the variety of animals that the larger, less frequent, shows had available.

 

[Focal]

Maybe Repticon should be handled like any other business that doesn't meet your expectations. There are millions of businesses that don't do things the way I feel they should, this does not make them a bad guy. Please standby, I will be creating a bad guy thread on McDonalds for not offering the McRib year round.

 

[Bci Joe]

So i've been vending at Repticon shows across Florida religously for several years...

My biggest issue is this... they (show promoters) seem to get more successful, while the vendors get less successful.

Their business grows exponentially, while mine suffers.

The market is already flooded, espeiclally down south, so why push so many more shows?

The fact that vendors fill the show, and customers show up, only makes it a successful show to the show promotors! NOT to the vendors! These people have to buy if it is to be a successful show for us! These people are NOT buying! and if they do, they are walking out with what I call 'expendable pets'. $10, $20, $30 items that looked cool and was an impule buy with spare pocket money that will be dead in a week! Not cool!

And this model will NOT work longterm. I see small breeders close up shop at almost every show! Can't hang in and 'keep hoping' the next one will work out!

A few years ago I would make a few thousand easy at a show, over the last several months, almost full year, i've been losing money at every show!

I keep my expenses low, around $600, and still sometimes only bring in $300 or so, and have to give stuff away!

Vendors have to keep their prices so low, and there's always someone who is getting out or is in dire need and blows stuff out at much lower prices. Seems like these customers see that, and expect that low blowout price to be the 'market price' going forward, and expect to pay that or lower at the next show!

Let's face it, most of these vendors are not business professionals, but when 'reptile people who can and will buy' are present, these animals sell themselves!

At most of these shows lately here in central and south florida, 9 out of 10 vendors I talk to haven't sold a snake on Saturday, and maybe a couple Sunday. 9 out of 10 are losing money or sometimes cutting even, and the 10th is the kind of guy that always says they're doing great when we know they are not!

I've told vendors many times - the only way I survive is by working the crap out of these shows! I have to hire one or two people to stay at my tables while i'm out making deals. I have to broker stuff there at the show, buy from one vendor and sell to another, work trades, buy wholesale to sell elsewhere, and more, just to be able to eat and afford gas to get home many times.

Sure I do snakes and the snake market is saturated here, but I mostly think it's the quality of people coming into these shows. They say they advertise in newspapers and radio, but I notice lately that most of these people don't even ask reptile questions.. they ask the type of questions of someone who has never even seen these animals! They are not buyers!

I worked one of their newest shows recently and it was a total bomb. It was in the middle of nowhere.. the nearest town was very poor. Out of just over 100 or so total people that came through the door, only 5 stopped at my table and even said a word... 5. 90% of the show I spent walking around, or outside, because the aisles were empty!

I think much, MUCH more effort has to be made and money spent in advertising, because this isn't working!

Don't get me wrong, I know some VERY nice people on staff, but again this model won't last long. It is not ok for me or others to continue to lose money so they can continue to make money. Plain and simple. It will not be tolerated forever!

 

[JeromyD]

Nobody has to agree with the labels applied in any BOI thread; that does not mean the label itself is up for ongoing debate (I've already posted about this in this thread). If you want to say something positive about Repticon, please feel free to do so - that would be far more productive than what amounts to convince me or shut up.
Maybe I'm reading too much into some of these posts, or I'm just already sensitized because I expected this thread to have issues. I'm not trying to discourage relevant discussion. I don't have a problem with somebody saying these things don't make Repticon bad because.....

In reference to the "Florida" Repticon. I know for a fact that the Tampa show is fun and everyone who i have run in to over the few years i have been breeding and have worked at a local reptile specific shop in the Tampa area which mind you has one of the biggest booths at the show and attends every Repticon that is on the list from my understanding. I have not one time ever heard anything bad or along the lines of Repticon being apart of bad business.

As far as the animals available here in Florida there has never been and i am sure will never be a lack of them. Feeders here in Florida some of the most inexpensive and variety i have every been around. Prices on feeders at the show have always been less expensive especially on frozen Mice, Quail, and Guinea Pigs(when they were available).

In my personal opinion i feel that Repticon is a great way for vendors and customers to come in contact and everyone get a good deal. As well as get a hold of some animals the rest of the US may or may not have. I have a great time and will continue to support Repticon and events like it.

Again i ask why was Florida a example in the initial complaint ?

 

[Magic Merlin]

So i've been vending at Repticon shows across Florida religously for several years...

My biggest issue is this... they (show promoters) seem to get more successful, while the vendors get less successful.

Their business grows exponentially, while mine suffers.

The market is already flooded, espeiclally down south, so why push so many more shows?

The fact that vendors fill the show, and customers show up, only makes it a successful show to the show promotors! NOT to the vendors! These people have to buy if it is to be a successful show for us! These people are NOT buying! and if they do, they are walking out with what I call 'expendable pets'. $10, $20, $30 items that looked cool and was an impule buy with spare pocket money that will be dead in a week! Not cool!

And this model will NOT work longterm. I see small breeders close up shop at almost every show! Can't hang in and 'keep hoping' the next one will work out!

A few years ago I would make a few thousand easy at a show, over the last several months, almost full year, i've been losing money at every show!

I keep my expenses low, around $600, and still sometimes only bring in $300 or so, and have to give stuff away!

Vendors have to keep their prices so low, and there's always someone who is getting out or is in dire need and blows stuff out at much lower prices. Seems like these customers see that, and expect that low blowout price to be the 'market price' going forward, and expect to pay that or lower at the next show!

Let's face it, most of these vendors are not business professionals, but when 'reptile people who can and will buy' are present, these animals sell themselves!

At most of these shows lately here in central and south florida, 9 out of 10 vendors I talk to haven't sold a snake on Saturday, and maybe a couple Sunday. 9 out of 10 are losing money or sometimes cutting even, and the 10th is the kind of guy that always says they're doing great when we know they are not!

I've told vendors many times - the only way I survive is by working the crap out of these shows! I have to hire one or two people to stay at my tables while i'm out making deals. I have to broker stuff there at the show, buy from one vendor and sell to another, work trades, buy wholesale to sell elsewhere, and more, just to be able to eat and afford gas to get home many times.

Sure I do snakes and the snake market is saturated here, but I mostly think it's the quality of people coming into these shows. They say they advertise in newspapers and radio, but I notice lately that most of these people don't even ask reptile questions.. they ask the type of questions of someone who has never even seen these animals! They are not buyers!

I worked one of their newest shows recently and it was a total bomb. It was in the middle of nowhere.. the nearest town was very poor. Out of just over 100 or so total people that came through the door, only 5 stopped at my table and even said a word... 5. 90% of the show I spent walking around, or outside, because the aisles were empty!

I think much, MUCH more effort has to be made and money spent in advertising, because this isn't working!

Don't get me wrong, I know some VERY nice people on staff, but again this model won't last long. It is not ok for me or others to continue to lose money so they can continue to make money. Plain and simple. It will not be tolerated forever!

OMG!!!!!.......this is the exact same thing I go through with the Repticon shows here in Texas........their is now 25+ shows put on in TX, half of which are Repticon shows, and I vend everyone of them.....can't make any money when their is less than 750 people through the door all weekend.

 

[Magic Merlin]

PERFECT MODEL............CO-OP Style...........What will happen is Evolution..........In My Fantasy Reptile Show.........All vendors are part owners of the Show..........Door Money Split back to the Vendor/Owners! Haha Right.

Keith......95% crazy and 5% genius.......that is a genius idea that would solve a lot of problems with Texas shows.

 

[hhmoore]

OMG!!!!!.......this is the exact same thing I go through with the Repticon shows here in Texas........their is now 25+ shows put on in TX, half of which are Repticon shows, and I vend everyone of them.....can't make any money when their is less than 750 people through the door all weekend.

Then why do you vend every show?
Why not draw the line, and stop doing the ones that you feel yield a small return for your time and energy?

 

[Magic Merlin]

Then why do you vend every show?
Why not draw the line, and stop doing the ones that you feel yield a small return for your time and energy?

I, along with a bunch of other vendors, have started cutting out some of the shows and are opting for taking the trips to out of state shows.

 

[TylerStewart]

I'm just a lurker here, but I'm surprised how many people complain that they keep doing the shows and keep not making money.... If you aren't making money, stop doing the shows. Nobody forces you to be there. I do many of their West coast shows, and they've been hit or miss. I don't blame or get upset with Repticon when I don't do well, I just think twice before going back. I skipped Costa Mesa this past weekend because the last one was slow for me in sales and I had other things I wanted to get done on Saturday. If I can do one of their shows and make it worth my time and effort, then I continue to go back. I don't care for many of their venues being small or old buildings or whatever, but that's their decision to make and I can decide whether or not to go based on the potential for me making money.

Their exclusive deals are another example; that was their decision to make and I can decide whether or not to support their shows the way they have it structured. It's not my business if they only want to allow one sand boa vendor in. If they want one cricket vendor that can't get his sizes right, then I bring my own crickets to use on my animals at the show. If their mice vendor has a history of being expensive, I'd buy them from someone else.

At the end of the day, it is what it is. If you don't like their business model, just don't go.

 

[dumje]

I stopped doing shows along time ago...wasn't worth it to me profit wise...I actually make money only through internet sales...but shows are essential for networking with breeders and other hobbyists...I still see the same breeders at a lot of shows though...it doesn't look like they sell anything so...not sure why many of them keep doing them. Keep in mind I'm a small breeder with about 40 Balls and a few kingsnakes and tortoises.

my 2 cents on this