Inquiry REPTICON Show Series Exclusive Sponsorship Agreement with FL Chams

[chameleonkingdom]

I figured Id post my story on here to get some other opinions on this issue. My name is Nic Herrett and I own the Chameleon Kingdom out of Kennesaw, Georgia. The company used to be owned by John Bordley and Cyndi Garrison out of Acworth, Georgia but they were forced to leave the hobby to take care of some other issues and pretty much gave me everything where they left off. For months I had been looking forward to running a booth at the Columbia Sc repticon show with my panther chameleons. I have dozens of beautiful individual animals that I was looking forward to taking, and running a booth, and just plain out having a good time. I have always loved the Repticon show series, especially the Columbia show and I thought, what a perfect show to start at the get things going again with the Chameleon Kingdom. Three weeks before the show, I purchased 2 tables. My money went through, and shortly after, I received a refund from Billy Healy, saying "Thank you for your interest in our Columbia show, however we have entered a sponsorship agreement with FL Chams that prohibits the participation of another "chameleons only" exhibitor at our shows. We can not offer you space at this time." At that point, not only was I angry at Mike Monge at FL Chams for doing this, but Repticon to allow that to happen. I can understand doing this with cricket vendors, because they're, buying 4+ tables and bringing truckloads of product, and If you allowed them all, theyd be out of room, but to weed out a small panther chameleon breeder? Besides, its a reptile show, not a feeder show. Personally I think its wrong, and its very discriminating to the smaller breeders out there. Then after making a phone call to speak with someone in person, I am told that I could attend IF I brought some other animals to sell. This really upset me because.....

1. I have a passion for chameleons for a reason. They interest me more than any other reptile out there.... period.....
2. When im told to bring other animals to sell, ones that I have absolutely 0 interest in (no offense to you other herpers out there), at that point, its not about expanding the show series and having variety for the visitors, but its about making sure I have enough "products" to sell besides my chameleons.
3. I really don't feel qualified to answer questions about alot of other reptiles. I know other breeders, and myself, stand behind our animals, and love to answer questions. I could answer chameleon questions all day long, but to sit there and try to sell geckos or snakes or whatever I ended up with, and not feel 100% confident about the info I was giving them..... I think we owe it to the customers to be able to fully and wholly answer all their questions thoroughly.

So please, do you think I am unreasonable for feeling this way? Where does the line stop? What if a gecko breeder, snake breeder, beardie breeder etc, had an agreement, and when you went to sign up, your told you couldnt because breeder X wants to weed out other breeders and competition to the show? Where do you draw the line? I mentioned this to Billy, and he said FL Chams has this agreement with them for the season to ensure they always have a chameleon only vendor at their shows. Seriously? So when another one wants to participate, and contribute to the growth of the show, they cant? Billy also told me that the Repticon staff weighs out these possibility's before making any decisions, but when I spoke to Cathy(another staff member) on the phone, she didn't know anything about it and told me she would have Billy call me in a couple of days. Not only did Billy lie to me, he never called me back, so I expect that other staff members were not consulted about the agreement. I expected a little more professionalism from the event staff, especially the man in charge. This was the 1st show of the year Ive planned on attending, and I was so excited to work it but WOW am I off to a horrible start.

I would love some input from some of you other breeders out there.
Is this wrong?

Happy Herping
Nic Herrett
The Chameleon Kingdom

 

[Tiger Lilly]

I don't know about the inner workings of what it takes to put on a show, but that just sounds wrong on so many levels.
Does that mean that if a 'big name' frog breeder wanted to do that, they could too? And a ball python breeder? Geez, if that's the case, the show would dwindle down to 1 company ONLY for each species.
Or maybe something was in it for someone else to make that deal?

 

[ReptileJay]

That whole situation really does show quite a bit of insecurity on the part of "FL Chams". I can understand not wanting to have competition... but to go about it this way is completely wrong in my opinion.
If you want to remove the competition, you have to prove that you are the BEST option, not try to make it seem like you are the ONLY option. Yes, perhaps it will work for them in this ONE instance (for the show), but the entire situation does not make them look good, regardless of whether or not they are directly responsible for the arrangement (which it seems like they'd have to be).

You are not at all wrong in feeling the way you do about this situation... FL Chams and the promoters of this show are wrong in the way they are doing business. The way they are going about this is subverting the entire purpose for having a show in the first place. By preventing there from being variety, the show is really taking a LOT away from the potential customer. It also gives FL Chams an additional selling point... Making people feel like there is only ONE chameleon breeder may make them decide that breeding chameleons may be a good idea... (No breeders out there, thus easy to sell babies)...

If you REALLY want to participate in the show, I would email the promoters, and let them know that you just took over the business from your friends, and that you are not a "chameleon ONLY company"... Since you took over, you kept the company name but also breed Leopard Geckos and Corn snakes (you just don't have any available at the moment, but they don't have to know that until the show starts)... I do not generally feel like LYING is the right way to go about anything... but in this case I think it would most likely be the best thing for the community...
Allowing any individual company to have THAT much control over a show is simply wrong. The promoters should not have to even know WHAT you are breeding or keeping in order to allow you into the show... as long as you are not breaking the show's POSTED rules... (ie. no venomous, etc...)

If the promoters want to promote FL Chams, and prevent everyone else from selling chameleons at the show, that information SHOULD/MUST be made public.
Either the promoters should have to allow anyone to sell chameleons, or let EVERYONE know that ONLY FL Chams is allowed to sell them. AND, that information should be posted VERY visibly AT the show itself... as to make sure people understand what is going on.

 

[RB_BPz]

Quite frankly i find this funny how a BIG Cham breeder wants to dominate a market like big corps do..LETTING MONEY TALK..So ridculous though..I feel for you Nic...Sucks but again...ITS ALL ABOUT MONEY for some folks...is what it is...you would think the shadiness and politics would stay at the corp but NOOOOOO even the shuffling of cards under the table exists in a hobby we are passionate about...

Pablo

 

[KNOBTAIL]

Very interesting concept !

If one has no options to see what competitors offer, then the show is not worth it under any condition... How foolish can these show promoters be.. What if it does not work out for Fl Chameleons regardless if they are the only one showing there chameleons.. Why allow a company to exclusivity on items that could draw greater numbers of people if greater numbers of vendors are there..

Someone should wake up these promoters ! The whole idea of a free market is to provide the end user with as many options for making a choice based the MOST amount of choices, not the LEAST.... I would provide letters of warning to all the other vendors that its bad for business and bad for the industry.. These shows should be boycotted.. If you would be kind enough to provide the name and address of these show promoters or email addresses. Complaints should be filed..

 

[whimpyguns]

i believe i would sell a handful of used aquqariums, maybe some of the heat rocks that always come with unwanted rescues, or just purchase and overprice a couple of kings or corns, return them after the show.
seems as though there are always more than one way to skin a cat..........

 

[ssshane]

Repticon

I have sent them an email making them aware of the link.

 

[rjarosek]

Someone should wake up these promoters ! The whole idea of a free market is to provide the end user with as many options for making a choice based the MOST amount of choices, not the LEAST.... I would provide letters of warning to all the other vendors that its bad for business and bad for the industry.. These shows should be boycotted.. If you would be kind enough to provide the name and address of these show promoters or email addresses. Complaints should be filed..

I mentioned this to Billy, and he said FL Chams has this agreement with them for the season to ensure they always have a chameleon only vendor at their shows.

I fail to see how restricting other "Chameleon" vendors would insure anything but a reduction in quality and variety of Chameleons being available.

My question is , Do they plan on enforcing this at the show? Whats next shutting down a booth because all that is offered is Chameleons.

Nic , I do not think it is unreasonable for you to feel the way you do. Thats the problem with a line that is not clearly defined, it will never stop.

Ryan Jarosek

 

[chameleonkingdom]

Glad to see Im not alone out here. What also bothers me is that upon signing up for my two tables, I checked the "agree to terms" box. Under those terms, it never mentions anything about my participation being restricted as a chameleon only vendor. Technically, I am only required to follow those guidelines as those terms are a contract between me and Repticon, and by him changing things up AFTER he has my money, he is breaking his own contract. Not only that, but I signed up a SECOND time, my money went through on the 12th of march. He posted all the tables were sold out AS OF the 13th, inferring the last table was sold ON the 13th, and I still received my money back, saying I cant participate even though I was in before he posted all the tables as sold! I mentioned in the memo when paying, I was bringing leopard, crested, and gargoyle geckos, as well as feeder gut loads, and I was STILL refused. I also requested the sponsorship contracted faxed to me, and never saw a thing.

I encourage all of you that share my similar opinion to contact him, and voice what you think is right. This is a free market nation and I should be able to sign up for a booth just like anyone else.

Billy Healy can be contacted at.....
[email protected]

 

[Russ Bates]

Stage a minni Protest at the Show

Make yourself some posters and stand at the entrance to the show (public property) and display your feelings about this. It is wrong! I'm sure FL CHAMS is paying a chunk of seed money to establish and promote REPTICON shows thus the BIG benefit of being the sole chameleon vendor.

If you really wanted to jab them in the eye, set yourself up a table advertising the sale of your chameleons outside of the show. This is probably a real stretch but hey if it really ticks you off....fight back.

Why does it seem like the name REPTICON has issues similar to this one attached to its name. Of course, this is the first I've read like this but if you surf the BOI there is at least one other and possibly more threads reflecting varied opinions on REPTICON shows.

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=95619&highlight=super+expo

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=111586&highlight=REPTICON&page=2


From a business point of view, I do understand REPTICON needing financial support to pull the shows off but geez......keeping the little guy from showing/selling his chameleons or any other exotic that is allowed is just crazy. That would be like Daytona having only one Ball python vendor (you pick the name).........well actually that might not be a bad idea Just kidding.

Russ Bates

 

[Serafim]

I think this is wrong to limit how many people can sell certain animals at the show. It would be one show I would never attend if this is the way the operate.

One idea.. Could you buy say a normal ball python and maybe a leo and do the show then? It would not be strictly Chams then. Just a thought..

 

[Chris Anderson]

Nic,

While I can see why you are frustrated not being able to vend at the show, to be honest with you, its seems more like you've simply had your feelings hurt then actually having been taken for any money, service or product. Your thread is looking for thoughts from others on a situation where no service or product was exchanged (your money was refunded before the show as is their right in the terms you agreed to when you tried to register). As such, this thread probably does not belong in the BOI, it belongs in either the "General Business Discussions" or the "Shows & Events" forum.

In my opinion, any debate on whether the deal Repticon has with FL Chams is good for the industry or whether it is in line with what shows are for is completely irrelevant. The bottom line is that its Billy's show and he can enter into whatever deals he wants with whomever he wants, he can let whomever he wants vend or not vend and he can put forward whatever terms he wants. His terms state that "Repticon reserves the right to make the final determination on whether any vendor or exhibitor may participate in a particular show" and when he decided he was not going to let you vend, your money was refunded. As such, you have not been taken for anything. No one has to agree or like what he does with his own show and no one has to attend if you disagree with his policies but this is really not a BOI matter, in my opinion.

Further, while you may be frustrated with FL Chams over the deal he struck with Repticon, bashing FL Chams is not appropriate in my opinion. Any issue you may have is with Repticon as ultimately, that is who you want to do business with, not FL Chams. If Repticon needed sponsorship, companies are only going to provide that increased funding if they somehow benefit from it. Repticon decided to allow FL Chams to be the sole chameleon-only breeder at the show in exchange for the added money for sponsorship status. That is between you and Repticon, not FL Chams.

Chris

 

[ForkedTung]

Pure rubbish! Post their ( Repticon) info. and I will send them an email stating that:

I will boycott all of their shows until all animals/reptiles and breeders are fairly represented. Monopolies will not be tolerated!

Kinda sucks because I will be in Florida next month with some money!

 

[TylerStewart]

I agree with Chris Anderson completely... I understand that it sucks to be on the recieving end, but it's not a deal between you and FLChams - it's a problem you have with a deal that Repticon made. For FLChams, it's a business decision that probably anybody in any breed would do if they were able to pull it off (as FLChams apparently was). For Repticon, it's a way to guarantee that they have a flashy chameleon vendor at ALL of their shows, which up to this point, they haven't had.

In my opinion, signing up 3 weeks prior to a show is far too late to even guarantee you could get in the door.

 

[chameleonkingdom]

Chris, I understand your concern that this may not be in the right section, but before I posted the issue, I contacted WebSlave, asking where to put this, and he told me...

"Since the issue you describe appears to be business related, I would say that in my opinion the BOI would be the proper forum for you to post this within.

Thanks for asking beforehand."

Chris and Tyler, I understand you are both good friends with Mike, and I am sorry if this offends you, but the main issue brought up in this thread is the issue between me and Repticon. I simply stated that I was angry at Repticon, and Mike. I am only human, and chris to be honest, I have had my feelings hurt. I respected both party's until now, because I feel some are in this for other reasons. I have worked so hard on raising these animals, that when I am told I cant participate, I think anyone human would get upset about that. In my first post I asked for opinions on this issue and other users brought up Mike more than I have. Also, you two are probably aware of the fact that Chris of CLC used to do shows for 2 years for him for free...many of them by himself. Then after he had his OWN booth at the last show, and then Mike asks for exclusivity. Because of that, I am being victimized.

-Nic

 

[KNOBTAIL]

the problem is..........

where does it stop ! Does this mean that if another vendor shows there chameleons at there table, they will be asked to take them off.. How stupid could these promoters be to be so hard up to expose themselves to the anger of vendors who draw the people in the first place.......More importantly, where does it stop. Once you open the flood gates for one exclusivity then someone else is going to come along and feel entitled to the same thing.

This type of behavior is indicative of an attempt to protect those that are willing to purchase more tables to satisfy the necessary required amount to run a show.. The consequences are worth the wrath of the smaller dealer who may have to bow out.. At least thats what the promoters are hoping for. Very poor business ethics and certainly what goes around , comes around. The answer is simple. Boycott the shows.

 

[Wraith]

Three weeks before the show, I purchased 2 tables. My money went through, and shortly after, I received a refund from Billy Healy, saying "Thank you for your interest in our Columbia show, however we have entered a sponsorship agreement with FL Chams that prohibits the participation of another "chameleons only" exhibitor at our shows. We can not offer you space at this time." At that point, not only was I angry at Mike Monge at FL Chams for doing this, but Repticon to allow that to happen.

Sorry they did that to you but they do appear to have their butts covered in the fine print.

"Repticon reserves the right to make the final determination on whether any vendor or exhibitor may participate in a particular show."

 

[chameleonkingdom]

Wraith, I have since seen that posted, but if you right click on that page, and select "View Page Info" you can see that the page was modified on March 14th at 4:08:33 PM. That wasnoton the terms when I signed up. I believe Billy added that info after our email correspondence, as the 14th was the date of the last email I sent him.

 

[ForkedTung]

Wraith, I have since seen that posted, but if you right click on that page, and select "View Page Info" you can see that the page was modified on March 14th at 4:08:33 PM. That wasnoton the terms when I signed up. I believe Billy added that info after our email correspondence, as the 14th was the date of the last email I sent him.

Which would also explain why the check was cashed in the first place, then the deal with the other breeder was made, then they dissed you.

"Repticon reserves the right to make the final determination on whether any vendor or exhibitor may participate in a particular show."

I would think that contractually, once they cashed the check they were obligated to allow you to attend, I mean they took possession of your money for a service they contracted to provide...just poor business ethics at the very least.

 

[Vegas Chad]

I can see it now...

Reptile show!!! Date: March 1-2. 10-6 come see the 7 booths! But don’t miss out next show where you can find the SAME thing. Or our next show where again, you can find the same thing again! Don’t wait, call today!

1 chameleon vendor
1 Turtle vendor
1 Tortoise vendor
1 snake vendor
1 spider vendor
1 cage vendor
1 supply vendor – They are out of what you need? Try the other booth. Whoops, you can’t!

It’s going to be an AWESOME SHOW!


Damn, LLL should work out a deal with all the show promoters. Instead of being just one vendor at shows they can BE the whole show since they have a little of everything. Only 1 ball pyathon breeder, Reptile depot cant come to shows that LLL is at, have something at your booth that another vendor has, sorry got to take it off.

I had better get on the phone to all the show promoters that I work with and try to work out this deal, im sure they will love and welcome it. That or laugh in my ear. Hmmmm wonder which it will be.?.?.?.