Inquiry REPTICON Show Series Exclusive Sponsorship Agreement with FL Chams

[brandonsthaman]

Fred,
I understand your point, and it makes perfect sense. I just wanted to post my experience of the show, and let everyone know that FL Chams was very helpful, had nice animals, and fair prices. You are exactly right though, since Nic was not allowed to vend there I will never know how his animals, service, or pricing compares to FL Chams.

 

[fred tompson]

I think no matter what that everyone has the right to do these shows, give everyone the same chance, if they do good then they do good, if they dont then they need to change the way they sell their goods and how they price them, The Daytona Show doesnt put restrictions on their venders, no matter what. That show is one of the biggest shows around and you wonder why it is, becouse the owner is very fair, if you play buy his rules then you are in the show, his rules are spelled out and that is what he goes by.

 

[homegrownherps]

I, personally would like to see more "exclusive" sponsorships. Maybe that would eliminate some of the low quality animals being offered at some of these shows. And possibly some venders as well !

It's pretty sad when a vender sells an animal, and then that customer has to go to a breeder to have that animal sexed. Venders of that quality should not be allowed at any show.

For those of you that mentioned "boycotting" shows that offer "exclusive" sponsorships ....well that would mean your not attending any shows at all, because wether you see it or not ..... I would bet it still goes on.

Wether its an "exclusive" sponsorship or just getting the best table location.....promoters have their favorites !

 

[homegrownherps]

I, personally would like to see more "exclusive" sponsorships. Maybe that would eliminate some of the low quality animals being offered at some of these shows. And possibly some venders as well !

It's pretty sad when a vender sells an animal, and then that customer has to go to a breeder to have that animal sexed. Venders of that quality should not be allowed at any show.

For those of you that mentioned "boycotting" shows that offer "exclusive" sponsorships ....well that would mean your not attending any shows at all, because wether you see it or not ..... I would bet it still goes on.

Wether its an "exclusive" sponsorship or just getting the best table location.....promoters have their favorites !

correction

It's pretty sad when a vender sells an animal, and then that customer has to go to another breeder to have that animal sexed. Venders of that quality should not be allowed at any show.

 

[eric adrignola]

Well, I won't argue that. It is within the powers of the show owners to disallow crappy breeders or vendors with bad reputations, isn't it?

When I was working for Tony, I certainly came up with a "&hit list" of vendors I would never deal with. It was beyond my understanding how the simple table fee outweighed the negative impact such low quality people have on a show. Not to mention the low quality animals they tried to sell before the latter stages of decomposition set in...

 

[chameleonkingdom]

correction

It's pretty sad when a vender sells an animal, and then that customer has to go to another breeder to have that animal sexed. Venders of that quality should not be allowed at any show.

Jim, so after saying that, how do you feel about the fact that I would be able to participate if I brought other animals. That would turn me into one of those vendors you just described, a vendor that is carrying something that isn't their specialty. My specialty is chameleons, because that is what I am into, and by me being forced to carry something that isn't my specialty, I am only adding to the list of vendors you describe.

 

[eric adrignola]

I think he's referring to the "bottom feeders" as I have heard them called.

These are people that sell reptiles not because they specialize* in them, or even like them - but they sell them because they're so sleazy and shady, the only type of work they can do is transient sales in an industry supported by a not-quite-mainstream subculture.

The majority of people I've met in the industry are great people. A lot of them hobbyists themselves. I tell you though, there are quite a few people I would not want coming near my home. You see it in every industry.

I wish that show promoters decided to be all out strict with the standards of the animals at their shows. A trend started a while back of having a vet come by and check all the animals. They clearly don't catch everything.

This is a big thing for me, a chameleon keeper/breeder. Few animals suffer the percentage of deaths that WC chameleons do. Every show I have gone to, I have tried to count the dying animals. The worst part is not when there's one less dying melleri in that cage - it's when the guy that bought it comes to ME to see what I think. I HATE telling some poor schmuck that the animal he just spent $80.00 on ("cause it was too good a deal to pass up for a mueller's!!!") will probably die before he can make it back to the vendor...

I know it's wishful thinking to expect an end to such things. It's one of the reasons I like doing my little educational talks. Parents that see me talk about selecting a healthy chameleon will not plunk down the money on one that they can ID as sick or dying. I will NEVER disparage a vendor or breeder, I just inform, and let the seller's stock sell themselves.

*they tend to specialize is species that can survive long periods of time in a deli cup, without food, water or a heat source.

 

[Snakesatsunset]

We just vended Repticon in Columbia and it was fantastic. The show was a tad bit slow in the first hour or two but was almost standing room only then after.
Fl chams is the only all chameleon vendor there, but that bieng said, other vendors, including ourselves, had panthers for sale. There was plenty of competition and consumers were able to shop around to decide on their terms who to buy from.
Repticon does not "ban" the sale of chameleons by other vendors. They seem to not even care. But to protect someone who is in contract(>?) to attend ALL their shows and is actually in a way a "big name breeder that attracts people to shows", is totally reasonable. They did not remove any competition from offering chameleons, and there were HUNDREDS of them.
Like I said, you can sell chameleons at their shows, just not ONLY CHAMELEONS. I do not see the big deal?
Its a totally different market then say ball pythons whom everyone breeds and sets up tables with only ball pythons.

 

[homegrownherps]

Jim, so after saying that, how do you feel about the fact that I would be able to participate if I brought other animals. That would turn me into one of those vendors you just described, a vendor that is carrying something that isn't their specialty. My specialty is chameleons, because that is what I am into, and by me being forced to carry something that isn't my specialty, I am only adding to the list of vendors you describe.

I really dont think I would allow someone to "force" me to be something I was not, for example: I would like to do one of the Reptile Expos in Ga. But since most of the animals I breed can not be sold there ...I just dont go. Thats not going to make me breed other animals just so I can vend there..or even buy other ppls animals to re-sell. I think there are way to many shows available for you to vend at to get stressed out over this.

No one is "forcing" you to do anything.

 

[homegrownherps]

We just vended Repticon in Columbia and it was fantastic. The show was a tad bit slow in the first hour or two but was almost standing room only then after.
Fl chams is the only all chameleon vendor there, but that bieng said, other vendors, including ourselves, had panthers for sale. There was plenty of competition and consumers were able to shop around to decide on their terms who to buy from.
Repticon does not "ban" the sale of chameleons by other vendors. They seem to not even care. But to protect someone who is in contract(>?) to attend ALL their shows and is actually in a way a "big name breeder that attracts people to shows", is totally reasonable. They did not remove any competition from offering chameleons, and there were HUNDREDS of them.
Like I said, you can sell chameleons at their shows, just not ONLY CHAMELEONS. I do not see the big deal?
Its a totally different market then say ball pythons whom everyone breeds and sets up tables with only ball pythons.

I also was a vendor at the Columbia show this past weekend, and there was a great turn out, and the general consensus was most of the vendors did well. (I did see a few other vendors with Chameleons.)

Is the 'exclusive" for all chameleons ...or just captive breed chameleons?

 

[bareptiles]

I also vended Columbia this past weekend and it was a very good show. Nic I can see why you would be upset, but ask yourself this if Repticon offered you the "EXCLUSIVE" would you do it. I sure would. Good luck just my 2 cents

 

[fred tompson]

so who can sell chameleons at a show were do you draw a line, can i sell 100 chameleons at a show as long as i have one ball python and one beareded dragon on my table, come on, were are the rules on that, think about what you are saying here people, this guy can sell only chameleons but this guy has to sell chameleons and one ball python, that is bullsh.....t

 

[bareptiles]

I was a vendor at the Columbia show . It was a very good show. Nic i can see you side to this, but ask yourself this if they asked you for the EXCLUSIVE rights as that vendor would I take it. I know I would. However anyone feels about this it is Repticons show and they have the right to do with as they want. Be it good or bad. I think repticon does a great job promoting their shows. The number of people going to the shows proves that. I drive 9-10 hours for all their shows and will do so as long as I'm welcome. Thanks and just my 2 cents

 

[Seamus Haley]

I think no matter what that everyone has the right to do these shows

Absolutely not.

It's not a "right" to vend at a show, it's something that occurs when a dealer comes to an arrangement with a show promoter. Ideally it's a mutually beneficial arrangement, it's not remotely a "right" though.

It may not meet the playground rules of fair play for other breeders- but it might have been a smart financial decision for the show promoter, he gets a recognized name as a major sponsor, possibly some kind of financial compensation beyond a normal table fee and guaranteed attendance from a vendor who he believes will draw in the customers. The exclusive vendor gets all those customers- no price wars where people walk back and forth claiming they can get a better deal at the other table, nobody trying to play the vendors off one another, no hesitation or waiting till the very last minute because there are SO MANY available that there are sure to be some left...

While there's a potential downside for other highly specific and competing vendors who can't do the show and the customers are left wondering "what if..." on their bargain shopping, it's not something that legally or even really ethically wrong. Just a little unfair.

 

[bareptiles]

It is not a right to do these shows. Most of us have busted our butts for years to earn the right to do these shows and earn the business of our customers. Most of us have taken countless hours away from our families to earn the right. But Repticon does have the right to do what they feel is best for their show and I can respect that. I feel all they were doing is insuring they had a respectable cham name there is all. What is wrong with that.

Chris

 

[fred tompson]

so then my quistion is this, were is the line drawn to who gets to set up at a show, and who gets canned, Nic is a nice guy has worked hard, has very nice animals, he got canned, were are the rules, those of you that set up at this repticon show how would you feel if it was you, or better yet you could be next, you could be turned down from the next show, how would you like it if you spent money to set up at the show and then you get canned, you are out the money, like i said who is next to be turned down from a repticon show, i bet you would be pissed like Nic if it was you.......

 

[bareptiles]

You bet i would be upset Fred, but if they didnt want me thats their right man. This is a reason i work with several different snakes and lizards. I cant depend on just my boas or just my balls, different things sell at different times and places. I repect those who specialize in 1 thing, but i found out along time ago i have to try to appeal to as many people as i could, but know what i was doing so i didnt look like an ass to my customers. I do see where you are comeing from but this stuff does happen and more than you know.

 

[KNOBTAIL]

I can assume

one of the benefits of having an exclusive arrangement is if a smaller vendor begins selling more chameleons then the exclusive vendor , and a complaint is made to the promoters, chances are the smaller vendor will be out.. that is the only way one can protect the workings of exclusive herps. Eliminate any potential rivalry. Otherwise being exclusive has no teeth in its workability..

Of course the show operators make the rules, but people cannot be controlled into purchasing from only one source.. It just depends on how much is the exclusive holder willing to loose in sales before he either realizes its a bad deal for himself, or attempts to get rid of the competition regardless of how inconsequential the other vendor may be...

 

[bareptiles]

Jerry, Fl Chams was the exclusive dealer there, but there were other vendors there with chams. I didnt hear 1 vendor or 1 customer complain about anything there. I didnt see any (controlled) buying there. The selection was very good by Fl Chams and other vendors. I like competition myself. I'll be the first to admit I'm not the cheepest guy out there and why should I be when quality should come first with any animal purchase. I will pay more for something that is better quality. Im not saying that 1 is better than the other when it comes to vendors either. Repticon was just making sure they had a for sure thing with the chams at their show. That is just a good business move on their part. We all know that imported animals will be at every show, along with ball morphs, boas, kings and so on. Not everone can keep certain reptiles like a cham. God knows i cant and ive tried.

 

[KNOBTAIL]

Dont misuderstand my thinking

I dont have a problem with exclusivity, just as long as other vendors can sell the same animals. In this case its chameleons, but it may very well extend into other areas if it proves profitable for the promoters... What will happen as human nature comes into play is greed.. Whoever is exclusive may have to apply some pressure to the promoters if other vendors are selling these same herps and sales are not going well for whom ever is exclusive.. Its just a matter of time for this to occur.. In this case its Fla. Chameleons

What happens if they were to complain to the promoters that a competitor has to many chameleons on there table... What if the competitor decides to reduce his prices to capture a sale... Will the promoter step in to protect the exclusive vendor... The only way something is exclusive is if NO ONE can offer the item for sale other then the one whom is exclusive... That seems to work for food vendors .. I dont know if that is wise or not... JERRY