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Bad Guy Reptile Basics Inc

gobee

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I'm afraid this thread has been a long time coming. Due to all the glowing reviews that RBI seems to have floating around online I was really reluctant to make waves but this situation has just gone from bad to ridiculous. I realize I've probably done some things wrong in this whole process but hindsight is 20/20. In December an Iris CB70 rack was purchased for me as a gift. When it arrived, I noticed that the tubs stuck immediately. It wasn't even out of the box yet, but I assumed the tubs had been fixed in place so as not to shift around during shipping. So I took it out of the box and got it set up, only to discover that the tubs still stuck. They all did it to an extent but the bottom one was the worst by far. With some finagling and shifting I could get the middle and top tubs out but I really had to get forceful with the bottom tub.

So when I managed to get it open I took it out entirely and noticed the heat tape was sticking up out if the recess and that the tub itself had hard ridges on the bottom that would snag on the heat tape when I tried to pull the tub out. So I smoothed the edges of the heat tape down, back into the recess, and it seemed like that fixed the problem. The tub didn't stick, even after opening and closing it several times. So I put a snake in it. Needless to say the problem wasn't fixed and the tub stuck as badly as it ever had, to the point where I had to outright rip it out of the slot. And of course that pretty much destroyed the heat tape. I realize now that I probably should have contacted RBI with this issue as soon as I noticed it, but like I said, hindsight is 20/20. I definitely reached out to them after this, and unfortunately I don't have those first few emails. I honestly don't know what happened to them, as they literally disappeared while I was trying to be stealthy on my phone one day at work. I'm assuming I managed somehow to permanently delete them as I've searched my inbox high and low for them with no results.

Basically, someone named 'Bobby' answered my emails and began asking me questions and wanted pictures of my setup, which I gave him. He said the rack needed to be on a level surface or it wouldn't function correctly. So I put a piece of chipboard between the two racks and sent him a picture of it then, only to have him claim the chipboard was not level and the rack wouldn't function properly on it. I said it was the best I could do at the moment, at which point he asked me to call so we could troubleshoot, yet he was only available in the mornings. At the time, I worked full time hours starting in the mornings, so that was not convenient for me. I also live in an area where I often have to drive half an hour one way for errands and so even on my days off I was often gone most of the day.

I have the emails from this point forward so I will include them following the initial post. I managed to get him to agree to send me replacement heat tape, but then almost two months went by with no shipping info or confirmation, no contact whatsoever, and no heat tape. I reached out again and said if the heat tape was too much of an inconvenience, a partial refund of $99 to cover the cost of the unusable slot would be acceptable as well. I got no reply, which I can honestly say I kind of expected at that point. I considered making this thread then but ultimately decided to let it go because RBI seems to be remarkably popular with an abundance of good reviews. I assumed my situation was probably a fluke.

But then a little over a week ago, I discovered that the heat tape in the top slot had not only actually melted a hole through the bottom of the tub, but burned a hole in the heat tape itself. I contacted RBI again regarding this issue, providing several images of the damage and various temps, which I will provide in a following post. At this point, this $300 rack is unusable except for the middle tub and my last email, like the one before it, has gone unanswered. Personally, aside from the fact that this rack was a waste of money, the fact that it's also apparently a fire hazard is alarming to me, though not quite as alarming as the fact that RBI doesn't seem to care. I realize everything electrical is a potential fire hazard, but this rack is only about five months old and has never worked properly. It's a shame that a company with such widespread good reviews has such terrible customer service.

Incoming screenshots of emails and images sent.
 
Most of the emails I still have, including the images sent.
 

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The last email screencap and a shot of the damaged bottom slot.
 

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Images of the damage caused to the top slot 9 days ago, the temp I have my thermostat set to and the actual temp of that exact spot on the heat tape by comparison.
 

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Rebecca, I have notified them of this thread. Hopefully they will respond with appropriate customer service.
I suggest you create a consumer complaint since the heat tape issue appears to be a fire hazard, and you say they have ignored resolving the issue.
https://ccformsubmission.ilattorneygeneral.net

There are various deadlines attached to refund requests using different sorts of payment. If the person who paid for this cage used a credit card, it might be possible for him/her to still initiate a refund request.
 
Rebecca, I have notified them of this thread. Hopefully they will respond with appropriate customer service.
I suggest you create a consumer complaint since the heat tape issue appears to be a fire hazard, and you say they have ignored resolving the issue.
https://ccformsubmission.ilattorneygeneral.net

There are various deadlines attached to refund requests using different sorts of payment. If the person who paid for this cage used a credit card, it might be possible for him/her to still initiate a refund request.

Thank you! I did email them the link to this thread but for all I know they deleted it as soon as they saw who it was from. I'll also get the form you sent filled out. Thanks again!
 
I recently called them about some radiant heat panels that I bought from them at the Daytona Breeders Expo last year that aren't functioning any more. They seemed very cooporative and eager to help. I will keep you posted as to the results. I was told to ship the heat panels back and they would replace them.. I will keep you all posted.
 
One thing I noticed in the close-up photo of the burned heat tape is that the heat tape appears to have been installed incorrectly. It covers the copper buss bars in the photo. I am by no means an authority on heat tape, but I have installed heat tape on three racks. The heat tape I use is from Reptile Basics. Before installing it, Rich at RB explained to me that the aluminum tape should overlap the clear edge of the heat tape only, and not overlap the black conductive bars or copper buss bars; doing so could cause a hazardous build-up of heat. This is on their web-site, and was also confirmed for me by Robyn Markland, whom I believe is the owner of THG Heat tape. So I researched this pretty thoroughly before I installed it.
So, if Reptile Basics installed the heat tape for you, they did so incorrectly, according to their own instructions.
For what it's worth, my own experiences with Reptile Basics have been positive; my only complaint would be that return phone calls and e-mails can be a little slow.
 
Clarification above- the ALUMINUM TAPE covers the copper buss bars in the photo of the burned heat tape.
 
I agree heat tape appears to be installed incorrectly. With that hot spot in the tape I would recommend not using it.
 
We tried to resolve this when first contacted, which was a little while after the issue apparently occurred. What was asked of the OP was to set it up on a flat surface to get the rack squared up so we can see if the bottom tub would work itself out. A 1/2" or 3/8" piece of OSB without any support under the side edges of the rack is not going to fix anything and will possibly make it worse as it bows. The OP has a wider rack stacked on top of a narrower rack. She didn't seem to want to hear that. Just because you don't like the answer you received does not make it wrong or not worth trying. It has been awhile but I think Bobby spent a while on the phone as well going through this to no avail. He also had I do remember we talked about this rack. Perhaps you did fix the rack initially and the subsequent problem later on was because of this set up? I really do not know as I am not there to see it then or now. I do know unsupported OSB sags quite nicely even without the weight of the sides of the rack on it which at best will make a situation worse.
After numerous emails where you wanted no part of simply putting the rack on a flat surface and quite a while on the phone going over this same topic - again, it’s been awhile so memory of this may or may not be 100% - frankly we gave up. Bobby also spoke to you at least one time well after hours on the phone. We can only go around the same topic so many times. IF the OP had done as asked and there was still an issue we would have replaced the rack, not given a $99 refund. If the rack is that bad off it requires a 33% refund then it is unacceptable for both of us. Some superficial dings and dents will sometimes be resolved with a partial refund at the choice (of replacement) of the customer. Anything the requires more than about 10-15% needs to be replaced. Never got that far with the OP.
As for the heat tape- If we said we would replace it then we sent it out. Does one fall in the cracks now and then, of course but 99.99% of the time it happens. Too much time has passed to come up with a tracking number, thousands of packages have gone since then but I will have a crack at it later this morning. Even if I do find the tracking it will no longer be good and likely the number has been recycled by FedEx by now.
Quite simply the OP has too much substrate piled up on top of it. You have trapped the heat for months now and have run it too hot for too long. If the customer is willing to listen and go through the setup we will almost always offer up a free replacement heat tape kit for the customer so they can get back up and running successfully with our racks. Generally, it is probe placement or substrate. Fortunately, it is virtually impossible to start a fire in a pvc rack with heat tape. I know this because I have spent quite a few years intentionally trying to do so to make this as safe as possible. You can melt the heat tape, the tub plastic and even distort the PVC but the heat potential out of a self-destructing section of heat tape simply cannot burn PVC before it gives up itself. In fact, PVC is extremely difficult to get burning and will not sustain flame on its own for very long at all. That’s why I use PVC and not ABS or Styrene. And by the way, it is still extremely difficult to get those started with HEAT TAPE as well- again, I have tried many different ways to do so.
That does not mean you do not have to monitor it, maintain it and use it properly. Like any other thing man made it can fail. I have helped thousands of customers through the years on this very topic, written quite a few posts, blog posts, emails, instruction sheets, etc. and I can't even guess how many hours at shows helping customers with heat tape on this very topic. If someone wants help I am happy to provide it. I seriously doubt anyone on the planet has spent as much time and effort on this as I have. And while not perfect for this hobby, until something better comes along it is what we have available to use. Our newer Series II racks we have been introducing have a couple of changes to make this less likely to happen such as a probe slot with direct air contact to the heat tape and area under the tub, but still- monitor your setup. There is simply no substitute for that.
I have replaced quite a few heat tape set ups in our racks over the years that were clearly NOT our fault. Might be why we have quite a few glowing reviews. We also have well over 1000 racks per year leave here for the last 12 years. Not all arrive perfect as shipping them is inherently difficult because of the abuse they take in transit and cages are even trickier. Anyone who gets one in less than the condition they should gets fixed up if they let us know when they get it and answer a few simple and reasonable questions. We spend a lot of time and money packing them as well as reasonably possible and cover the damages our self- The carrier will not cover them. Over the years we have developed a pretty good packing system but it will never be 100% going through FedEx or UPS no matter what we do. All the OP was asked to do is simply what the instructions told her to do. Put it on a flat, level surface and we would go from there. She was asked to do this politely multiple times via email and phone both during and after hours. She did not want to, she wanted a debate. From that point on she is on her own. Had she done this, had she addressed the issue with us immediately when she got it I think she would have a different outcome. The customers out there with the glowing reviews would probably tell her the same.
 
after looking at the original images there appears to be no foil tape on the heat tape. Who added the foil tape?
 
I agree the op installed the heat tape incorrectly then tried to blame RBI after being difficult. I have had nothing but positive experiences with RB over the years.
 
I did get another email from them... a not very helpful one, but they aren't ignoring me anymore for what it's worth.
 

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I agree the op installed the heat tape incorrectly then tried to blame RBI after being difficult. I have had nothing but positive experiences with RB over the years.

Wait, I didn't install the heat tape. The rack was completely assembled when I got it. I didn't do anything except try to make the edges a little smoother. When I asked for advice from one of my groups on fb they suggested putting foil tape over the edges to hold it down. Now if that's what caused it to burn I can take it off but I was assured it would be safe, and if I take it off then I'm still stuck with the original problem of the heat tape snagging the tubs. Which... again, isn't my fault because I didn't install the heat tape.
 
Rebecca, I must say that my perspective is changing after reading their post. If they advised a flat surface for their product, I think that is what you should have done.
Now if that's what caused it to burn I can take it off but I was assured it would be safe
You were assured by the seller, or who?
 
What was asked of the OP was to set it up on a flat surface to get the rack squared up so we can see if the bottom tub would work itself out. A 1/2" or 3/8" piece of OSB without any support under the side edges of the rack is not going to fix anything and will possibly make it worse as it bows. The OP has a wider rack stacked on top of a narrower rack. She didn't seem to want to hear that. Just because you don't like the answer you received does not make it wrong or not worth trying. It has been awhile but I think Bobby spent a while on the phone as well going through this to no avail. He also had I do remember we talked about this rack. Perhaps you did fix the rack initially and the subsequent problem later on was because of this set up? I really do not know as I am not there to see it then or now. I do know unsupported OSB sags quite nicely even without the weight of the sides of the rack on it which at best will make a situation worse.
After numerous emails where you wanted no part of simply putting the rack on a flat surface and quite a while on the phone going over this same topic - again, it’s been awhile so memory of this may or may not be 100% - frankly we gave up. Bobby also spoke to you at least one time well after hours on the phone. We can only go around the same topic so many times.

I think you may be getting me mixed up with someone else, because we never once spoke on the phone, and certainly not at length. Also, I never said that I'd didn't want to do as you requested, I said that I couldn't at the moment. I literally had no flat level surface to put the rack long term, and I didn't think switching it with the one it was on top of would suffice.

As for the heat tape- If we said we would replace it then we sent it out. All the OP was asked to do is simply what the instructions told her to do. Put it on a flat, level surface and we would go from there. She was asked to do this politely multiple times via email and phone both during and after hours. She did not want to, she wanted a debate. From that point on she is on her own. Had she done this, had she addressed the issue with us immediately when she got it I think she would have a different outcome.

As I said, I didn't refuse I simply stated that I didn't have the perfectly level space to leave a rack semi-permanently. Also, again, there were no phone calls, ever, certainly not after hours. If you want to count answering emails via phone, then sure. Also, I'm pretty sure the amount of time we spent pinging emails back and forth doesn't amount to 'hours'. I think the time stamps are on the screenshots.
 
Rebecca, I must say that my perspective is changing after reading their post. If they advised a flat surface for their product, I think that is what you should have done.

You were assured by the seller, or who?

I was assured by several people in the group that it would be alright as long as I didn't cover the heat tape all the way across. I don't really have much experience working with it so I didn't want to mess with it without checking.
 
I wouldn't have posted this at all if I'd thought for a second that it was all my fault. I'm not trying to get 'something for nothing', I literally have a rack that is 2/3 unusable and I thought I had explained why I can't just put it on the floor but I guess it was in one of the lost emails. Also, the assertion that they spent 'hours' on the phone with me trying to resolve this is just flat out wrong. We spent 0 time on the phone because our schedules clashed. Maybe they're getting me mixed up with another 'difficult' customer, i don't know, but I do know neither of us ever called the other.

Also, when I sent them the email at 7 weeks, why did they not respond at all? If they had sent the heat tape as they said they had, why not tell me that? Instead they stayed silent and ignored it completely. Also bear in mind that I never received any sort of shipment information whatsoever at any point. That seems unusual to me, considering most places will send a shipment confirmation or a tracking number, or something.
 
Wait, I didn't install the heat tape. The rack was completely assembled when I got it. I didn't do anything except try to make the edges a little smoother. When I asked for advice from one of my groups on fb they suggested putting foil tape over the edges to hold it down. Now if that's what caused it to burn I can take it off but I was assured it would be safe, and if I take it off then I'm still stuck with the original problem of the heat tape snagging the tubs. Which... again, isn't my fault because I didn't install the heat tape.

When you put the foil tape on, did any of it, even ever so slightly, cover any of the copper in the tape? Doing so will conduct electricity into the foil tape causing it to heat up to extreme levels. When applying foil tape it MUST be on the plastic edges only. Double check your placements on the functional slot to ensure it stays functional.
 
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