ReptileRefuge-stealing photos and Care Sheets

[homegrownherps]

This looks to have gone further than it needed to.
The care sheet on Reptiles Forums is the same as the one on my website.
They (Reptiles Forum) contacted me some time ago and asked if they could use it, I told them it was ok. They offered to put a link back to my page - I told them it wasn’t necessary but they offered to do it any way.

I usually let people use my care sheets, I don’t need the link back to my site, but I don’t think it was right that some one else tried to take credit for it. I checked out the site (Reptile Refuge) and thought it was pretty good. And if they had asked, I would have offered to help them in any way I could. But when I confronted them they passed the buck / played stupid and became rude.

I don’t think pointing out that the person claiming to have written the care sheet was a waste of time or arguing. I can keep coming here and saying one thing and wetwired can keep coming and lying, and we can go round and round forever as seen on this forum in the past. So far, from what I have been told, all the people that have confronted the Reptile Refuge people about stolen pics and care sheets have been banned from that sight.

I have more important things to do than keep coming here and getting caught up in this “pissing match”.

Jim Keenan
HomeGrownHerps

"I have the right "NOT" to be tolerant of others because they are
different, weird, or tick me off".

 

[WetWired]

I don't remember exactly where I got the caresheet from. I do know that when I Googled "Bearded Dragon Caresheet" it of course gave me a list of websites, and the caresheet I used had a direct link to it, bypassing the page with the "legal notice". It was only when I was messaged about it did I even know the notice existed, as it was on a "splash" page of the caresheet.

 

[WetWired]

"I usually let people use my care sheets, I don’t need the link back to my site, but I don’t think it was right that some one else tried to take credit for it."
Again, I did not claim to take credit for ANY of those caresheets. That includes yours.

"I can keep coming here and saying one thing and wetwired can keep coming and lying,"
If you think I'm lying, you're entitled to your opinion, but I assure you, I'm not lying. I want this matter resolved.

"So far, from what I have been told, all the people that have confronted the Reptile Refuge people about stolen pics and care sheets have been banned from that sight."
And you've been told wrong. You're right, I did ban a few people. The ones I banned were people who kept sending me private messages bashing me, about like you're doing here, while I was trying to correct this problem. I banned you because the thread you started was turning into one big flaming match, that quite frankly, I want no part of. If you had used the private message feature, like everyone else, that wouldn't have happened.



Get your information right before your post.

 

[Ophis]

That explaination doesn't sound kosher to me. I find no other link to this care sheet other than the authors own page with the copyright link at the top of the page when I Google as you suggest you did. Help yourself out and find the site you got it from and post the info here. I think you are digging a big hole for yourself by claiming ignorance.

 

[homegrownherps]

My info was right.
You wanted me to PM you instead of letting people see that you are stealing.
Or at least got caught stealing.

Good Luck with your site.

Jim Keenan
HomeGrownHerps

"I have the right "NOT" to be tolerant of others because they are
different, weird, or tick me off".

 

[reptilebreeder]

I did ban a few people. The ones I banned were people who kept sending me private messages

I banned you because the thread you started was turning into one big flaming match, that quite frankly, I want no part of. If you had used the private message feature, like everyone else, that wouldn't have happened.

You banned people because they PMed you........and you banned him because he started a thread............ but you wouldn't have banned him if he PMed you like the others who were banned.

:confused Wait I'm confused

 

[CheriS]

You've removed or deleted the sheets now and posts, so there is no way we can disprove what you just said. But there were only 3 of the many that had any link back to the source and none of the photo's did. On the care info you only had

Regards, and your nick

this thread was only started AFTER, your removed Jenn's bearded dragon care info and replaced it with another one (without permission).. that one is taken down too now and a third one is up there since yesterday.

As for making a business arrangement with dwedeking, there is none that I'm aware of. The link at the bottom of my forums was put there by me

care sheet Several links to his online store to purchase items sold by him mentioned in the caresheets he has wrote/authorized for you to put up, sure likes like a business arrangement to me. There is nothing wrong with that, thats between you two, it was brought up because of what he said that this thread was just because you have a site..... which is not true, its because you were using items not yours, only removing when people contacted you, then replaced with another without permission AND you told him and many others you did not know the sites they came from as you got them off google links and did not remember... so we asked others here to look at them and see if the recognized their work..... and MANY did and emailed you.

You have removed the thread where you own moderator stated he wrote it from his experience, then changed and said he wrote it from his friends experiences since he never rasied that species and later admitted he changed a "few line" of someone else's care info, but thought you wrote it. So we also can not disprove that.. but the screen shot is on this thread of you posting: "written by our own moldypotato" . By your own and his statements you admitted it wasn't... but again only AFTER it was complained about.

You have removed them all now, but that was not the case when this thread started and we know you were aware that was a mistake, but still choose to leave them there. Sure everyone can and do make mistakes, but you continued it AFTER you were aware and that is why this thread was put here. Thank you for respecting other's work now and making your own arrangements for care articles and photos.

 

[WetWired]

Hmm. I don't remember that being there. Or maybe I just simply didn't see it. The only legal notice I remember seeing was on this page.

http://blackninjakitty.com/herps/dragons.php

I suppose it's possible that she's added the link here
http://blackninjakitty.com/herps/dragons.php
in light of what's been going on, but I can't prove that and I'm sure it'll just aid in discrediting me further, anyway. Nonetheless, I didn't see the legal notice.


"You wanted me to PM you instead of letting people see that you are stealing."
Have you looked around lately? I think everyone pretty much already knows what's going on. A thread on my forums wasn't needed to inform the people.


"You banned people because they PMed you........and you banned him because he started a thread............ but you wouldn't have banned him if he PMed you like the others who were banned."
Again, someone trying to twist my words around. Or maybe someone who is simply unable to comprehend simple English. Let me dumb it down for you. I banned him because he is the only one out of the people complaining to post a thread in the forum. It was turned into a "pissing match" so I deleted it and banned him to ensure it didn't happen again. The people who sent me PM's didn't just send me one, they sent upwards of 5 each, after the initial ultimatum, bashing me and telling me what a thief I am.

 

[WetWired]

"Several links to his online store to purchase items sold by him mentioned in the caresheets he has wrote/authorized for you to put up, sure likes like a business arrangement to me."
He gave me permission to copy his caresheet for my forums, I simply left the links intact. Again, with no instruction from him. I also don't believe that caresheet was written by him specificly for me.

"You have removed the thread where you own moderator stated he wrote it from his experience, then changed and said he wrote it from his friends experiences since he never rasied that species and later admitted he changed a "few line" of someone else's care info, but thought you wrote it."
As I've stated before, I was told he wrote the caresheet. I was not told that part of it was copied.

"You have removed them all now, but that was not the case when this thread started and we know you were aware that was a mistake, but still choose to leave them there."
As I've stated before, I was ignorant to the law. So no, I didn't know it was a mistake.

 

[Ophis]

You would have to be blind to miss the "Legal Notice" text if it were there when you copied it, especially if you copied the sheet! Why don't you just stop trying to spin a web to cover your butt. Your just going to end up getting caught up in it. Admit you willfully did wrong but didn't think it was a bid deal and tried to cover your tracks when you started getting heat. Apologize without exeption. Promise to try to be more professional and move on. If you follow the line of denial you are on now, you are just kicking your own ass in the long run.

 

[WetWired]

"Why don't you just stop trying to spin a web to cover your butt. Your just going to end up getting caught up in it. Admit you willfully did wrong but didn't think it was a bid deal and tried to cover your tracks when you started getting heat."
I would do exactly that, if it were the case.

 

[Ophis]

Ah yes. The expected response.

 

[WetWired]

Would you like me to remove the website completely? Would you like me to uninstall the forum script? Would you like me to set the domain to redirect to google? Is that what you people are striving for? Just because the ****ing truth isn't what you want to hear, doesn't mean it's not the truth.

 

[reptilebreeder]

Again, someone trying to twist my words around. Or maybe someone who is simply unable to comprehend simple English. Let me dumb it down for you. I banned him because he is the only one out of the people complaining to post a thread in the forum. .

Well, shame on him for using your forum to complain that you were stealing from him.

Thanks for dumbing it down for me.
I'm sure based on your character, that everything you say is very true, and these other "victims" are full of doo-doo.
I'm very sure that you didn't know you were stealing, I guess you just thought you were "borrowing" others hard work and actual experience.
I'm sure you only banned people who were flying off the handle and didn't even have a reason to be PMing you in the first place.
I'm sure, seeing as you "borrowed" so many excellent care sheets and photos, that you must have one of the most informative and up and coming forums out there.

If anybody needs it besides me :laugh: I'll dumb it down in advance. I'm being...............Sarcastic, actually Sardonic is probably a better term.

 

[Bringerofdoom]

All i have to say is WHY didnt you just gather information from all the care sheets around and type up your own sheets? is it really that hard to do? Did you not feel you had to contact the originator to get permission?

I cannot believe somone would think just copying someones website with or without a copyright notice is the best thing to do.

 

[WetWired]

Ya know what, I think I'll just let you people talk behind my back. I came here to try to resolve this, and it's pretty obvious that none of you want that to happen. I guess you need something to gossip about. So say what you will - make up your own truth. I'm leaving.

 

[CheriS]

Robbie,

I can verify that Jenn's big red letters of Legal Notice was on that page you copied/paste, its been there for months. I will agree, you may have missed it when copying it

AGAIN, this thread was not stated until the day after you had already been told by many others it was not legal and you removed some... only to replace at least one I know of with another's info without permission and still having up many photos that were not yours and you told people you had no idea where they came from at that point.... but did not remove them.

There's a copyright group on Yahoo that was searching and identifying the photo and articles on your site..... so MANY were still there AFTER this thread started and a day after your were aware it was illegal.

Those are the facts... you have the site legal now, thats all I requested. But trying to cover tracks and make it seem better when the heat was on is not the way to do it and you saw that thread of moldypotato, it was obvious to everyone he knew he was lying ... he changed his story 3 times!! ..... if it was flaming, you have the ability to remove any flame post, not the whole thread.....someone showing the article was not his, is not flaming

Your missing the point, its not that you have a site and it should be removed, its what you did on it that abused others rights.

Anyway, thanks for coming here and clearing up some things that others had questions of and for doing the right thing with your site... THAT is what earns you respect, even after problems... people will respect that you did the right thing and owned up to it

 

[Moldypotat0]

First of all, I would like to apoligize for the way I wrote my speech.
I also would like to say that I am also against how wetwired has acted towards banning some people. Reptletrader, I requested a ban for you. I admit that. I am not ashamed of what I did and I do not believe I should be. I specificly asked you to pm me or email me. That is just what I asked. You chose to not listen and flame the board with a bad attitude and no proof of such care sheets being on any website or being copyrighted at all. I asked you I believe about 5 times in the forums for where the care sheet is located. I mainly received you talking and not giving me any proof of you owning this care sheet at all. I said if you have a link to where this care sheet is I would notify wetwired to immedietly remove it. I was not given anything concerning that this is a care sheet owned by anyone but Wetwired. Which I guess it's not.......

As you can see... my grammar is not the greatest. I am not by any means lieng to you or trying to. I infact read your post and repeated myself many many times. It looked to me as if you did not understand what exactly I was saying. I again have been talking to people for a long time of the day before you post the thread and to tell you the truth the whole discussion had really got myself dissapointed and let's just say "B:AH". The time you posted another post and I noticed is when I got straight out of bed. Dealing with that situation already until I went to sleep and then waking up to deal with it more is not an easy thing to do. I know you don't want to hear my rants but I was just too tired and burnt out to deal with it. When you make us seem like thieves when we basicly are not is when I started deleting posts as it wa obviously going nowhere after that.

Wetwired wrote that I wrote the care sheet. He did not take the time to read it obviously so in return he did not notice it was almost the same with a few exceptions. I too am angry for him at that but i asked him to delete it and he did. I Repeat: I DID NOT WRITE THE CARE SHEET! I SIMPLY MADE A FEW EDITS AND ADD ONS TO WHERE IT WAS NEEDED WIHTOUT KNOWING IT WAS SOME ONE ELSES CARE SHEET EXCEPT WETWIRED"S.



Lastly, I hope... Reptletrader- If you want back in the forum I will ask robbie(WETWIRED). I really do not want anyone to have a bad impresion upon us or any of the forum. Robbie himself said he wants the forum to be a nice place to get away from alot of the flaming boards and have reptilerefuge to be more of a laid back forum with out so many rules. I agree, I think that is all we want on that forum. That is obviously not happening right now.

I apoligize for this problem and if anyone has any questions for me please ask.

 

[repfriend]

All I can say...

Who needs the government, PETA or the Humane Society to destroy the reptile community.

We are doing a MIGHTY FINE job with that ourselves.

It's a flipping shame. With all the scamming, illegal shipping of venomous reptiles and other stuff going on, here we are bickering over where caresheets are posted.

True, true, true, if you go to through the trouble of writing caresheets, you want to be credited as the author.

What are caresheets for? To EDUCATE the public, the newbies. I would "think" that looking at the bigger picture, the more "exposure" those caresheets get, the better...or am I missing a point.

Yeah, we can bicker about copyright all we want, the reptile community doesn't have enough problems yet.

I think its clear that those caresheets and pictures were NOT used to make a profit, unlike those scammers that steal photos and pretend its their animals for sale, etc.

Yes, he did wrong using them without permission...he might even overlooked (purposely?) some copyright message. He's trying to fix it, and may the "perfect" person cast the first stone.

He shouldn't have gotten defensive like that and leave, but stand up to his mistakes and prevail, a simply sorry and will do better would have been nice.

Big picture, though, anyone should want to help spread the word about CORRECT husbandry.

If I wrote a caresheet, I wouldn't do it for my EGO or to put my name out, I would do it for the ANIMALS BENEFIT, and what better way to ensure their well being, then to get the word out far and wide.

I probably would be miffed if someone else claimed to have written it, or if someone was unwilling to credit me for writing it. But once those issues were out of the way, the more sites that would post it or link to it, the better.

Now lets get back to bickering amongst the good guys, more ammo for the bad.

 

[jrobinson]

Who needs the government, PETA or the Humane Society to destroy the reptile community.

We are doing a MIGHTY FINE job with that ourselves.

It's a flipping shame. With all the scamming, illegal shipping of venomous reptiles and other stuff going on, here we are bickering over where caresheets are posted.

True, true, true, if you go to through the trouble of writing caresheets, you want to be credited as the author.

What are caresheets for? To EDUCATE the public, the newbies. I would "think" that looking at the bigger picture, the more "exposure" those caresheets get, the better...or am I missing a point.

Yeah, we can bicker about copyright all we want, the reptile community doesn't have enough problems yet.

I think its clear that those caresheets and pictures were NOT used to make a profit, unlike those scammers that steal photos and pretend its their animals for sale, etc.

Yes, he did wrong using them without permission...he might even overlooked (purposely?) some copyright message. He's trying to fix it, and may the "perfect" person cast the first stone.

He shouldn't have gotten defensive like that and leave, but stand up to his mistakes and prevail, a simply sorry and will do better would have been nice.

Big picture, though, anyone should want to help spread the word about CORRECT husbandry.

If I wrote a caresheet, I wouldn't do it for my EGO or to put my name out, I would do it for the ANIMALS BENEFIT, and what better way to ensure their well being, then to get the word out far and wide.

I probably would be miffed if someone else claimed to have written it, or if someone was unwilling to credit me for writing it. But once those issues were out of the way, the more sites that would post it or link to it, the better.

Now lets get back to bickering amongst the good guys, more ammo for the bad.

Good point...

In case none of you have noticed, the "un accounted for" sheets have been removed from our site...

and like repfreind said, we are forgetting why these places like this were started, bottom line....people need the info, and we freely gave it...yes we needed to be more carefull about it and we now know that...it wont happen again, trust me...

But listen people....if we are bickering about whose info it is then we are defeating the purpose of having help forums like ours, if we spend all the time griping about who wrote this and that, then the people that needed help are not getting what they came for, and that was the sole purpose of our forum, and should be yours too...so...just so you know, Reptile Refuge is still up and running....and will be... And ill tell ya one thing, the reason that people liked our forum so much, is because we didnt act like the people that have posted on this forum. arguing gets no one anything, and guests dont want to see bickering like this, they want to be in a community where that can fit in....

And CheriS, it would be nice if you would remove Justins address from YOUR forum, as if i looked hard enough i could prob find cases that prohibit posting of ones address without proper consent..... Hypocrites dont help at all....