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Reptiles Cause lung problem? EMERGENCY

K

kmarsh

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I am sitting here totally devasted this morning so I reach out to my friends here at Fauna. Is there ANYBODY that has heard or ANYONE or ANYTHING that could cause a person to have a lung disease from reptiles?
I have been diagnosed with a Idiotic Interstitial Lung Disease. I am 49 female never smoked and now have a lung disease that we have no idea what is causing it. My local lung doctor could not come up with a answer so they sent me to Emory University in Atlanta and yesterday after some more tests they have no answers so the answer was to get rid of all my pets. I had originally asked and he told me that he didnt think the reptiles were a problem then yesterday he says " Oh yes definately the reptiles" I have looked on line and I cant find anything so I decided to reach out to the experts (IMO) I just cant see getting rid of my reptiles on just a feeling or a possibility.
I want to cooperate with my doctors to make life better for me but the thought of life without my babies is just killing me today. I would rather get rid of my kids first <weg> because to me that would be easier. (they are 19 and driving me crazy) But in all seriousness if I was sure then I would have to be like I have asked "What if its not them?" "How can we know for sure" " If I took them out of the house for a while how long would it be before we would know?" There are no answers to any of those questions.
Any information would help, Please... I feel I needed to reach out here in case someone else had to make this choice. If you had a unexplainable lung disease could You get rid of your reptiles on the possibility that they "may" be the cause?
Thanks, Kathy Marsh
 
So Sorry to hear that Kathy...REALLY sorry. I don't know what I'd do....ask your doc to explain in layman's terms how the animals are linked [ in his opinion [ to your condition. Is it something coming off them and being breathed in through the air...sand in any cages that you would be breathing in,etc.? Be respectful but persistent...how is it linked...what is the outlook for you with this diagnosis? That is the question. Your health is of prime concern. I have never heard of this diagnosis but you should ask this question in as many reptile forums as possible. I wish the best for you.
 
I've heard of birds causing issues with lungs (birdkeeper's lung), but never reptiles? I hope they sort it out, so that you can keep your babies.
 
Thanks Angi. There in is the delima. Because it has been shown that with birds there is a link, feces dander and such but in reptiles I cant find anything that suggests it and he is only going on that more or less process of elimination. I asked all that of him and he said cleaning the cage and breathing the feces or maybe something on the scales but he has NOTHING concrete to back this up with just that he is putting it down that he suggests this and its up to me if I do or dont do this. Of course I am getting the flack from all that dont understand or like my reptile keeping. But I want someone to tell me that there is definately a link before I take such a drastic measure as giving up the one thing I love the most in life. I agreed to get the one bird out even though I distanced myself from him immediately when we realized I had a lung problem but the flack I am getting over the reptiles is killing me. Some of the reptile despisers think that I should "do this immediately because the doctor says, and that if there is any chance I should get rid of them to save my life". To me I have no life without the love of my reptiles there. No sand in any of my cages. The outlook is a double lung transplant in the future as this thing progresses and its not progressing fast that we can tell. We have been tracking it for about 1 1/2 years. Bit worse in last year.
 
I see what you mean...I would personally rehome the animals ASAP if I knew for a certainty...I did look up on line and I see that there can be many causes,including birds...possibly then reptiles as well ?....If you do have to place them somewhere,try not to let it get you emotionally paralyzed. You need your strength for fighting the disease. Keep your self surrounded with good people,family,friends.
 
I'm going to guess that you were diagnosed with idiopathic interstitial lung disease (not idiotic).
In simplest terms, it's basically a process that leads to scarring of the lung tissue. Sometimes specific causes can be found, sometimes not. While eliminating the cause, and meds, can slow the progress of the scarring, it isn't a reversible thing.
As far as how reptiles might be associated, we'd have to take a closer look at what you keep, and how you do things...including what cleaning/disinfecting agents you use.
 
Substates that I use or have used is paper towels for the beardies newspaper for the iguanas. When the turtles are inside I use newspapers in their area. Snakes are on paper towels. So most everyone is either on paper towels and/or newspaper. I had some geckos come in with sand but it seemed to be too dust for my liking so I put them on paper towels as well.
 
Cleaning has always been done with removal of dirtied papers and then spray down with either 10% bleach solution or a product called wipe out. Yes You are right with the idiopathic, I think to me it just feels idiotic. Over the last year I have distanced myself with the cage cleaning because of the problems I am having and the thought process seems to be that "something with the reptiles may be causing it" and that I may be more sensitive to something than others could be. ( such as why some have birds with no problems and other do)
 
deborahbroadus said:
What kind of substrate do you use? It could be linked to that.
Click to expand...

:iagree:

Do you keep tortoises with hay as the substrate? Moldy hay is another one of those organic substrates that might be a cause. Ammonia gasses are also dangerous. Do you breed your own rodents? If so, are they kept within the house? Any breathable dust particles or chemicals could be at fault, even organic ones.

Getting back to mold...it might be a good idea for you to rip off all the drywall in your reptile room and replace it with the more "moisture-damage-proof" drywall. Bacterial or fungal overgrowth within the walls could be something to consider.

All this however, would have to be from long term chronic exposure. How long have you been keeping reptiles? I don't really see how reptiles could be the direct cause of this, however they might be an indirect cause. Again, the substrate, rat/mouse breeders, mold, etc... :shrug01:
 
Tortoises are outside with hay but its changed about every 2 weeks just to be fresh. But inside they are on newspaper. Don't breed mice but do use them for the snakes and yet they are somewhere else now. I guess thats why I am asking, I know people have alot more reptiles than I do so unless this is something that I am just sensitive to (like the bird thing) but I would feel that someone or something would have come up about this before now. I have 2 sulcattas, 1 russian, 6 iguanas, 4 beardies, 3 geckos. I have had frilled dragons, water dragons as well. I have been keeping reptiles and had a pet shop for about 6 years and closed the pet shop about a year and half ago or so. But I am getting alot to think about. My other concerns is for those around me that are helping out with the cages and stuff while I have been being distanced. Still with all the vast amount of reptiles and reptile keepers my search is for anything or anyone that has ever heard or had something like this.
 
I'm not familiar with wipe out, but bleach is pretty harsh (though I probably run stronger than 10% since I don't measure). The finer the spray, the more likely it is to cause you problems. Chlorhexidine diacetate is a killer, for me at least (I don't have problems with C gluconate).
Inhaling dust/debris when cleaning cages could be a factor, various substrate issues (heck, even paper molds), and countless non reptile issues could be involved. How long had you had the bird?
 
The pet store would have exposed you to a lot (assuming you had birds, small animals, reptiles, etc)...and, again, this isn't something that just goes away or gets better when the source is removed. Once the scarring occurs, it progresses; and the extent of your difficulties can be influenced by a variety of factors.
(I apologize for being blunt, but I'm assuming that you've heard this before since it isn't a new issue)
 
kmarsh said:
Still with all the vast amount of reptiles and reptile keepers my search is for anything or anyone that has ever heard or had something like this.
Click to expand...

I've never heard of this either...not from reptiles anyway. In the past I've been in contact with several big time breeders who own hundreds and even thousands of animals. They even have their children helping them out in their facilities. If this was a concern then they would take a lot more precautions. This is definitely the first time I've heard of this as being possibly linked to reptiles. You should grill the doc a bit more. I mean "Oh yes definitely the reptiles" is a pretty matter-of-fact statement...he must have some reason for believing that.

There is a vet student on this forum who I've been exchanging E-mails with. I'll send him a link to this thread, maybe he can help out. As a vet who will be in direct contact with reptiles for years and years...if there was any issue of them as being a cause of lung disease then he would have been warned about it. Hopefully he can shed some light on this.
 
Thanks Mr. Moore for the help and advise. Also thanks to everyone else as well for your thoughts and advise. That is why I brought it here. Get answers, suggestions and to also let others think too about what we all do as keepers. The birds were in the pet shop and if I had to pick a spot that would be the best one. I had it for about 3 years and yes I had several birds there. The one I have now is a cockatiel but is being rehomed today. The funny thing is that during the pet shop ownership, I never had a problem and have been rid of it for a actually 2 years now. Just wondering why the problems now. Also maybe it took that long to catch up with me. I can take that answer, just cant take getting rid of the reptiles. I did grill the doc over the reptiles and he can not give me a answer as to why he feels that way except that there is the possiblity of it being the cause and he wants to start eliminating anything that could be a possiblity. But just picking something isn't a good enough answer for me. I want proof. I want cases of others with the problems and I feel more inclined to beleive it could be a after effect from the petshop with the birds than my reptiles now.
 
Hi again Kathy....since you need to avoid perfumes,aerosol sprays and cleaning agents,like ammonia and bleach...whoever is doing the cage cleaning should use something other than a spray bottle,because the irritants will be in the air no matter who is doing the cleaning. I don't use bleach for cleaning...I use red wine vinegar [ according to WHO it is 100 times stronger than bleach and is used in Africa where they have diseases like cholera] and I dilute with water and small amount of dishwashing liquid. Much less toxic for the animals as well. Just use a small bucket instead of spraying. Does anyone in your house smoke? That should be a no-no as well.
 
Thanks Angie and we will make that change to the vinegar today but no smoking around me is allowed anyway because of the oxygen but I have never really had alot of smokers around me. I appreciate all the help and advise. Just looking at all the angles and passing it back to the doc as I get more here. Not one to back down from the fight.
 
angie.h said:
Hi again Kathy....since you need to avoid perfumes,aerosol sprays and cleaning agents,like ammonia and bleach...whoever is doing the cage cleaning should use something other than a spray bottle,because the irritants will be in the air no matter who is doing the cleaning. I don't use bleach for cleaning...I use red wine vinegar [ according to WHO it is 100 times stronger than bleach and is used in Africa where they have diseases like cholera] and I dilute with water and small amount of dishwashing liquid. Much less toxic for the animals as well. Just use a small bucket instead of spraying. Does anyone in your house smoke? That should be a no-no as well.
Click to expand...

I use white vinegar or apple for cleaning around the birds..not sure if Wine vinegar would have the same benefits.:shrug01:

I currently use diluted bleach for cleaning the snakes..and have been thinking seriously about switching to the more natural vinegar cleanser. Right now, I use hospital masks to protect me from most of the Aspen substrate flybys and bleach smells:shrug01:
 
In hind site and reading alot of this I can see things I would do differently and hope that others take notes. Beleive me its not worth the risk of a lung disease or problem not to take these precautions. I do hope that others see this as well. Such as Mask's, vinegar versus bleach, ( although everything I read back then suggested the bleach, I am beginning to beleive that that the vinegar may have been best) wash not spray. Also the use of the Aspen for the pet shop with the mice a mask would have been better with that too probably.
 
I worked in pulmonary critical care for two years and not single patient was diagnosed with ILD/IPF due tol sole ownership of an reptile. That's not to say it wasn't a contributing factor in the progression of the disease.

Have they ran blood work to check for toxins in the blood?

Radiology reports??

Lung biopsies?

Has your home been checked for molds and other things?

Most moderate - severe cases of ILD/IPF are caused from chronic lung infections, chronic pneumonia and a host of other things. A lot of patients living close to industrial companies have these type of issues due to toxic air being near them that they've inhaled constantly.

Exactly how long have you been diagnosed with this?

Has it just returned over the last year or so and is progressing?

Sorry just looking for more information. I may be able to help by speaking with the pulmonologists I know who are some of the top rated in the nation. ;) The more you feel comfortable telling me the more information I can relay as long as you're ok with that.
 
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