Respiratory virus in ball pythons...

[KelliH]

I'm sorry for the losses, Jen. I've been there and I know it hurts. Best of luck.

 

[Lucille]

Jen I am sorry for your losses, and for the difficult time you are having.
I have a question- is this virus species-specific, does the reptile virus stay in reptiles only?

 

[BryonsBoas]

Does anyone know if it affects boas too? I have a friend who bought a boa from the company mentioned in the BOI thread.

 

[Lucille]

What if the vector isn't snakes? A new snake isn't the only new arrival into Jen's collection; several weeks prior to that, she received 20 African Soft Furred rats, according to what she said on a soft furred rat site. She did not have these kinds of rats before.
Is it possible that they could be carriers of a virus? Certainly, not everyone who has the rats has illness, just like not everyone who owns a dog has rabies.
The rats have been spreading through the US and in particular, owners of BPs are buying them since it is said that BPs may eat them when they are not eating other offered animals.
While many people quarantine new snake arrivals, I'm not sure if anyone quarantines rodents because we don't expect them to carry anything that affects our collections.
I'm not saying that this is happening, I'm just saying that BP owners across the country are buying these rodents, and I'm just asking whether this virus is species specific, or whether particular rodents could be carriers.

 

[TripleMoonsExotic]

Well that's certainly an interesting theory.

 

[Pink Lady Exotics]

She did not have these kinds of rats before.

False -- go back and read the rest of my threads on that forum. I have kept these rats for quite a long time -- that was just a new batch I had brought in to replace my old and retired colony and start some new genetic lines of color/pattern. These rats are only fed to two snakes -- neither of which has gotten sick. None of the rats have gotten sick either. That was the first thing I asked my vet -- if this could have come from prey. He said absolutely not, there are only 2 illnesses besides parasites that he knows of that can pass from prey to snake, and they are bacterial. The chance of it happening is so minut that it isn't even considerable at this point. <--------- His words.

As for it spreading to other snakes, we don't know yet. That is one of the tests that they're going to determine. So far, my 3 rainbow boas and my 2 cornsnakes are just fine.

 

[Pink Lady Exotics]

Well, after thinking the worst was over, 3 new snakes have come down with it. Sita, my last 3000g female, Maggie, my albino that I raised up from a tiny 82g hatchling, and Angel, my beautiful blushed out breeder female that was a skinny rescue I took in. They have been doing just fine, eating weekly -- then 4 days ago, they showed symptoms. Today, they are on death's doorstep. In looking at the 9 snakes total now that have been sick/died, the length of time from exposure to active infection and the symptomatic period from beginning to death have been so widely varied and different, from 1 day to 10 days to 2 months.

I had a very long conversation with Dr. Gordon today. He left a message at the lab for them to get back to him on where they're at so far. I did a lot of research on OPMV after it was brought to my attention a few weeks ago, and after bringing it up to my vet and having him grab the new Mader book and look into it along with what I've printed out, this is our new theory as to what they have. The symptoms and timelines are too close of a match for it to be coincidental, and it would explain transmission (airborne) because we were at a loss as to how it was transmitting if it were a rhabdovirus. The problem is, quarantine in a separate room doesn't do squat with OPMV because the house shares one ventilation system -- so air transfers between all the rooms via the heating system. We still would have to do titers on the remaining snakes to determine who was exposed, infected, carrier, etc. We may have to euthanize some, but all the research on OMPV online and in the Mader book says that if 3 months pass after the last death with no new illnesses or deaths, than it can be assumed that all remaining animals are healthy (immune system has beaten the virus or was never infected). We will be re-checking titers after that 3 month period (if we ever get to that point) to be sure.

I have found various cases in the UK where a bird vaccine (Colombovac) proved successful in preventing further illness/death when given to the remaining healthy-appearing snakes...so he is trying to track some down, may have to special order it, and we are going to start giving it to the remaining snakes, even though we haven't gotten a definitive answer yet. It won't hurt them, and if it does end up being OPMV, then they could be protected.

Maggie doesn't look like she is going to make it much longer -- according to the research done by Dr. Elliot Jacobson at the University of Florida, she is in stage 3. I'm really hurting for her right now.

Most importantly, I want to thank those that have sent checks to the clinic in donation to the costs of lab work and research for this entire situation -- I did not ask how much they were for, because any amount is going to help. He could not give me names off hand because he had them stored away in my file, so to whoever sent in, THANK YOU from the bottom of my heart. It is a much-appreciated show of goodwill and caring during this trying time.

Hopefully I will have more answers soon -- please keep my animals in your thoughts that no more have to suffer this painful death.

 

[Hack the Maniac]

Oh man. I had read a few things about some kind of virus you had dealt with, and were still dealing with, but I had no idea it was on this level. I just read almost all of your blog. I'm so sorry for all of your losses, and I wish you the best of luck in the future, as well as hope that you don't let this defeat you.

 

[Scramblermike]

Ball Python Virus

Hey Jen,
I know you and I have been in contact in the past. I know I kind of got a lot of stuff started when I was posting trying to find info on that breeder in Texas. I think that this all came from there and definitely not from your rats. I have been much luckier with my situation. I told you that the one arrived sick and the vet even agreed it had to be sick upon arrival. I had 2 others that came down with the same symptoms. At this point they have both past. I treated the pastel with the Baytril and the fortaz he seemed to beat the disorder. He then got sick again a couple of weeks later. Now the wierd part is the pastel appears to be healthy again. Ate just this past weekend no longer wheezing and the damaged eye he had has healed. I am just really nervous since you said everybody sick had past at your place and now there are ne sick snakes. I would really like to hear how things turn out for you. I am keeping a close eye on my snakes. My womas and carpets have not had a problem and one of my carpets was living directly above one of my sick snakes. Good Luck Jen and keep me posted. Thanks Mike

 

[Rapture]

Hey Jen, It's been a while since I followed your situation. I was just wondering- did you ever get any lab results back that proved the virus to be either Paramyxovirus or the Rhabdo- type virus?

 

[Pink Lady Exotics]

Well, Maggie died yesterday. I left a frantic message at the vet clinic wondering why we weren't getting answers yet and if he found that vaccine...he called me back to tell me that he's called everywhere in the country and can't get ahold of it. So we're SOL. He called down to the lab and they have basically been sitting on their asses and have done none of the tests yet -- and now they can't because all of the samples have been frozen for too long and are unusable. So, now, I have to pick which one of my remaining sick animals I want to have euthanized to get immediate live tissue samples. That's the only way we're going to do this. The lab threw in my face yet again that the tests are going to cost $250-$300 each, like it would deter me from doing this or something. They seem to think that they shouldn't do it because of the money. My vet and I have flat-out told them multiple times that that is not an issue, we need answers, and NOW.

Dr. Gordon spoke to Dr. Jacobsen (the vet that runs the lab and did all the OPMV research), he is the one that told him he needs the live samples to confirm it. They basically said the prognosis isn't good -- we can continue with a double-whammy of antibiotic injections on all the snakes or nebulizer treatment, but all that will really do is kill the secondary infections they're getting -- it will do nothing to fix the viral base illness, and they will ultimately die regardless. At this point, I really don't have much choice but to put down every single snake I own. The research is just to confirm what the virus is -- we can't do anything to fix/stop it.

 

[LukaTisus]

omg.. I hadn't heard a thing about this virus, and considering I have my own collection of ball pythons that I plan on breeding in a year or so, this is definetely something that I think every herper should know about, especially ball python breeders.

Is it possible for me to post the link to that blog on a few other forums?

 

[Pink Lady Exotics]

Well, I'm trying one last ditch effort. I bought all brand new tubs, bedding, PVC couplings, water dishes, heat cable, etc. and set everything up on a new storage shelving unit in my bedroom. There haven't been any sick snakes in there for awhile now, and they aren't touching any single thing that the deceased ones did -- everything is brand spanking new and I had on gloves and a trash bag smock (don't laugh). I went through all of my snakes, took each one out, purposely upset it and pissed it off so I could get it to hiss (the only way to get a good listen to any possible lung problems), and brought the 100% no-symptom "healthy" ones to this new setup in my room. I removed my gloves, washed my hands, sanitized my hands, then put on new gloves between each one. The snake room is beyond contaminated, regardless of how I was cleaning things, so I think it may work better to put the "healthy" ones in my room instead of the sick ones (leaving the healthy ones in the contaminated air in the snake room). Unfortunately, only 7 were able to be removed. The rest all have bubbles/wheezing/popping -- including my CH yellowbelly, 2 more breeder girls, and my mojave, which are new sicknesses. So right now, I have in my room: Spoon & Lucky (my beloved normal pets), Misty (yellow stripe dinker), Leilani (adult I raised up from a CH baby), Dash (spider), Hollywood (clown), and Jack (g-stripe). The rainbow boas and corns are still in the room, segregated to the other side, and still doing well, but they will have to stay there because so far it has shown to be only a ball python illness, and I don't know if it can cross to them, so I don't know if they would just be carriers (like boas and IBD). Let's hope that this will keep them from coming down with it, long enough to get the pathogen identified, titers done, and answers as to whether they will be OK and I can keep them.

Luka, go ahead and share my blog -- the more people are aware, the better.

 

[LukaTisus]

Done. I posted the link on a couple of other forums I go to, ReptilesCanada being one of them. This is definetely a virus that needs to be brought to light, considering how lightly so many keepers take RI's.

 

[Cat_72]

Dang Jen....it just keeps getting sadder and sadder.

You know I have Maggie's mama and brother here, they both have the sweetest temperaments....I'm hoping she will give me a nice clutch this season. It won't replace Maggie, but when this is all said and done for you, we'll make sure you get a close relative of hers to help you start fresh.

 

[Pink Lady Exotics]

Maggie was the one that made this hit the hardest, she was the first loss from my long-time animals. I still can't believe she's gone. I haven't done anything with her tub or her nametag or her records yet. I can't. I kept telling her I was so sorry (I know they can't hear, but...). She's in my freezer...I refuse to just throw her out like trash. I'm going to bury her when the snow melts and the ground loosens up. She was my first morph, and the first variation I liked from way before I even got Spoon and didn't know crap about ball pythons. When I bought her, Bill gave me a great deal on her at the time which was the only way I could get her. I was over the moon when she arrived, and she had been one of my most prized snakes. I still have all of her baby pictures that Bill sent me from the day she hatched until she was ready to go. I remember when was helping me pick her out -- she was the one he wanted to keep, and the orange spots down her back were the deciding factor. She was so sweet and docile, always let me hold her and touch her face, never once refused food, even when she was just an itty bitty baby. She acted so big and tough. I just have so many memories with these guys...this isn't fair.

I appreciate it Cat, I didn't know you had Maggie and Yellow Clifford's mom. Maybe Maggie will be reincarnated? I'm sure everybody reading this thinks I'm an idiot with how emotional/anthropomorphic I've gotten over this whole thing...I just really can't help it. I need to in order to handle it.

 

[LukaTisus]

I'm reading it, and I don't think you're an idiot, Jen.. because I'm the same way. I'd be just as emotional and distraught as you are and in fact, reading this made me cry.. my biggest fear is something like that happening to my collection as I have a very strong emotional and sentimental attatchment to all of my animals.

You and your remaining snakes are definetely in my thoughts and prayers and I hope they all pull through this somehow. I'm thinking of helping with the donations if I can afford it this next payday as well.

 

[Cat_72]

I thought you knew that I gotten their mama, Jen. She really is just as sweet as can be, and she has never missed a meal either, she's my "garbage can" in that room.

I remember holding Maggie before you got her, Jen.....she was definitely the pick of the clutch, but I couldn't buy 2 at the time...and the male made more sense for me. But I still had a helluva time turning her down, I was actually relieved when Bill said he had sold her elsewhere, lol...it was officially out of my hands then.

Keep your chin up girl. I won't begin to say I understand what you're going thru, but I understand how you're dealing with it, I would be doing the same thing....and you'll be the first to know when Maggie's mama has more young'uns.

*hugs*

 

[Scramblermike]

Sorry to hear Jen!

Hey Jen,
I still think everything is said and done hear at my collection. I guess I was fortunate after hearing what's going on in your collection. The original male is still acting completely fine now. Got all of his sheds off his eye has healed and no wheezing or coughing. I took the two cages the ones that died were in outside in the cold rain wednesday and rinsed eveything with a heavy bleach solution. I am not doing anything other than feeding and maintaining everybody for the next few months to make sure everything is stable hear again. What I was really righting about was I have a couple of normal males that I really won't be needing. So once I know everything is straight for sure If you are interested I would let you have one or both of them. Just feel bad that you lost all those snakes. Waiting for eggs from my adults. I have two female balls that I believe are gravid and a female Woma (A. Ramsayai) that is definitely gravid. So I am counting my blessings by only losing the Chocolate and Harlequin Males. Good Luck! Keep your Head Up! Mike

 

[LukaTisus]

I was talking to someone about this virus and some people who've had it, have gone to the extent of having to use foot-baths in and out of the room that the virus originally was found within... There isn't any form of aeresol spray that could wipe out any bacteria or virus spores in the air, is there?

As well, reading up on this, I would keep a very good eye on the other boids you have in the collection, Boas are notorious for not showing signs for a long while. It's horrible, and I hope the remaining snakes you have, have managed to avoid contracting it.