Restrictive return policies

[wyldwurm]

It's hardly the truth when it's biased to your own practices:








I think what you meant was, avoid buying from YOU online since that's where all your "bottom of the barrel" specimens end up.

I am not going to comment on anyone's opinion other than this...

I know Andy personally, in fact I JUST returned home from visiting his place. His animals are top quality and VERY well taken care of. There are no "bottom of the barrel" animals in his care. Unless you have been there and seen his animals, making a statement like that really makes you look dim.

 

[WebSlave]

WOW....
Some of you folks are just so helpful and friendly!

Do any of you honestly believe that the way to move forward in this hobby is to buy animals sight unseen from a website?

It's obvious that some people here are simply concerned with selling their animals. It's laughable for anyone to even suggest that every seller is putting their "A grade" animals online.

I love how anything I post has been transferred to this thread.

Is your concern really for the newbies who can't afford to take a loss on a bad deal, or are you just trying to discourage them from wrapping their brains around the notion that doing business face to face is a better way to do things?

Sheesh.... I can't remember reading a more myopic business plan EVER in the past. If you ONLY buy and sell locally, you have eliminated 99 percent of the marketplace you can reach. And you will have painted yourself into a corner, businesswise.

How quickly will you saturate your local marketplace? Damn quickly, in my opinion. It can't help but go that way as your customers grow up the animals that came from you and then start offering sales to your other customers. Probably at cheaper prices. Then what do you do? Probably kill yourself trying to dance faster than the competition you created for yourself.

Unless you are living in a very LARGE metropolitan area with a huge population of enthusiasts for the exact animals you are producing, your business plan is pretty much guaranteed to put you on the "also ran" list in this business in short order. Unless you are just a small time hobbyist selling your animals merely to break even on the food bill, of course. But even that will cease being fun eventually.

The internet opened up a marketing world that was unimaginable 30 years ago. You can display a new cultivar overnight to the entire WORLD via the internet now. Literally tens of thousands of potential customers are at your fingertips, INSTANTLY. Doing this locally, how many can you reach? A handful? By word of mouth and phone calls?

Yeah, that's the ticket. Hope it works out for you.

And while I'm thinking about it, just why the heck are you HERE, then? If you only buy and sell locally, what is here to bring you to this site?

 

[Focal]

I am not going to comment on anyone's opinion other than this...

I know Andy personally, in fact I JUST returned home from visiting his place. His animals are top quality and VERY well taken care of. There are no "bottom of the barrel" animals in his care. Unless you have been there and seen his animals, making a statement like that really makes you look dim.

He said the leftovers get sold online, the snakes that no one obviously wanted, which I refer to as the bottom of the barrel. I never took a stab at his quality so simmer down.

 

[hhmoore]

I am not going to comment on anyone's opinion other than this...

I know Andy personally, in fact I JUST returned home from visiting his place. His animals are top quality and VERY well taken care of. There are no "bottom of the barrel" animals in his care. Unless you have been there and seen his animals, making a statement like that really makes you look dim.

Kim, I believe that statement referenced Andy's comment about nobody putting their "A grade" animals up for sale online...I don't think it was intended as a comment about the quality of his animals; just his own reference that the good stuff doesn't get advertised, so anything he advertised couldn't be the good stuff.

 

[hhmoore]

There seems to be a lot of back and forth over this, but WHY?
The OP seems to have misconstrued the point of the passage she quoted. Andy never implied that he would not correct any mistakes that he made, but that is the spin being put on it.
Much ado about nothing....

 

[asixtwo]

Your policy of not making payment until the buy-back has been in your possession for at least 30 days. Most people deciding that they no longer want an animal, would be looking for payment at the time of sale...not a month or more down the road. I'm not necessarily criticizing your policy, just pointing out that most people would opt for the immediate payment of a regular sale.

Not everybody has breeders within local driving distance; and, even if they do, it doesn't mean that they want to do business with them.


Nobody said every seller put their top notch stuff online....but it is just as laughable to suggest that no seller puts their "A grade" animals online.
In many cases, the best of the best never get to "the ads" - no argument there; but that doesn't mean that it wasn't start to finish an online transaction.

I love how anything I post has been transferred to this thread.

Is your concern really for the newbies who can't afford to take a loss on a bad deal, or are you just trying to discourage them from wrapping their brains around the notion that doing business face to face is a better way to do things?

[/QUOTE]

Sheesh.... I can't remember reading a more myopic business plan EVER in the past. If you ONLY buy and sell locally, you have eliminated 99 percent of the marketplace you can reach. And you will have painted yourself into a corner, businesswise.

How quickly will you saturate your local marketplace? Damn quickly, in my opinion. It can't help but go that way as your customers grow up the animals that came from you and then start offering sales to your other customers. Probably at cheaper prices. Then what do you do? Probably kill yourself trying to dance faster than the competition you created for yourself.

Unless you are living in a very LARGE metropolitan area with a huge population of enthusiasts for the exact animals you are producing, your business plan is pretty much guaranteed to put you on the "also ran" list in this business in short order. Unless you are just a small time hobbyist selling your animals merely to break even on the food bill, of course. But even that will cease being fun eventually.

The internet opened up a marketing world that was unimaginable 30 years ago. You can display a new cultivar overnight to the entire WORLD via the internet now. Literally tens of thousands of potential customers are at your fingertips, INSTANTLY. Doing this locally, how many can you reach? A handful? By word of mouth and phone calls?

Yeah, that's the ticket. Hope it works out for you.

And while I'm thinking about it, just why the heck are you HERE, then? If you only buy and sell locally, what is here to bring you to this site?

For such a long and eloquent response one would think that you would have taken the time to read the thread before you posted such a misguided response.

If you bothered to read the original post, it refers to a buy-back guarantee on any HET that I have sold. The buyback offer is good for the life of the snake. So i suppose you'd buy back a 2 or 3 or 4 year old animal without evaluating it, and toss it right back into your collection?

I never said I sold locally. I simply said I don't sell to people I don't know, and I don't ship. How many times has a shipper killed your animals and stuck you with the bill? Are your customers willing to pay the cost of Delta dash?

Do you have any idea how many breeders get scammed by buyers?

Do you know which major breeders are trying to hide the fact that they have IBD or crypto in their collections?

I local buddy bought over $10,000 worth of high end BP from a big name breeder, and had not only those 3 snakes die and wipe out another $30 to $40k of his collection.

Have you ever met me?
Do you know how many trips I make to the west coast, or florida, or ohio, or Pa, or chicago, etc every year?

I have a waiting list for pretty much everything I breed, and I get top dollar for everything I sell. How many zoos and museums are buying your animals?

I've placed animals into private collections that have cages that cost more than some houses.

I'm not worried about my business model....

 

[Dennis Hultman]

I never said I sold locally. I simply said I don't sell to people I don't know, and I don't ship. How many times has a shipper killed your animals and stuck you with the bill? Are your customers willing to pay the cost of Delta dash?

Do you have any idea how many breeders get scammed by buyers?


Have you ever met me?
Do you know how many trips I make to the west coast, or florida, or ohio, or Pa, or chicago, etc every year?

I'm not worried about my business model....

So was this business plan developed since last October?

Baby Colombian RTB need new homes!
These little boas are all well started and POUNDING f/t!

Clean markings, great temperaments, not a biter in the entire litter.

...Males $75 Females $95 Pairs $150
We're FedEx certified shippers!

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos..._442104654591_674084591_5188675_7608602_n.jpg

I have a waiting list for pretty much everything I breed, and I get top dollar for everything I sell. How many zoos and museums are buying your animals?

I've placed animals into private collections that have cages that cost more than some houses.

Elitist sounding much? That's kind of a rather amusing comment to pose to Rich?

 

[Lucille]

I've placed animals into private collections that have cages that cost more than some houses.

Heat, Tylenol, and rest.
It can really hurt, patting yourself on the back so hard.

 

[WebSlave]

I never said I sold locally. I simply said I don't sell to people I don't know, and I don't ship. How many times has a shipper killed your animals and stuck you with the bill? Are your customers willing to pay the cost of Delta dash?

So you deliver your animals to people "you know" all across the country and/or world? I'm sure that is cost effective for you.

Do you have any idea how many breeders get scammed by buyers?

I have a fair idea. Why do you think I set up the Board of Inquiry forum?

Do you know which major breeders are trying to hide the fact that they have IBD or crypto in their collections?

Nope. And I'll bet that YOU don't neither.

I local buddy bought over $10,000 worth of high end BP from a big name breeder, and had not only those 3 snakes die and wipe out another $30 to $40k of his collection.

So, that couldn't happen in a face to face transaction?

Have you ever met me?

Perhaps. Would there be something relevant to that fact had it happened ?

Do you know how many trips I make to the west coast, or florida, or ohio, or Pa, or chicago, etc every year?

Nope. Should I?

I have a waiting list for pretty much everything I breed, and I get top dollar for everything I sell. How many zoos and museums are buying your animals?

None now. I'm retired. But in the past, I never really inquired. I never felt I needed to try to make future sales by crowing about the elevated status of past customers.

I've placed animals into private collections that have cages that cost more than some houses.

Must be some pretty cheap houses in your area. We've got trailer parks here in Florida as well. Some of which ANY cage would be a better place to live in...

I'm not worried about my business model....

Well, good for you then. I bow to your greater marketing experience and acumen...

In any event, again, what brings you to slumming on this little backwater website then? Surely you have better things to do making well heeled friends for that list of people "you know" that you can can then deliver your animals to?

Surely you can't be looking through the classifieds here? Nor the BOI, as what difference does it make to you about the reps of people you won't be doing business with anyway? Surely you wouldn't sell to someone getting their hands all grubby selling on a WEBSITE to people they don't even know, now would you?

So, how long has this business model been working for you?

 

[Dennis Hultman]

I have a waiting list for pretty much everything I breed, and I get top dollar for everything I sell. How many zoos and museums are buying your animals?

I've placed animals into private collections that have cages that cost more than some houses.

I just find this whole thing quite funny. "How many animals do zoo's and museums by from you?"

Posing that question to somebody responsible for so many lines.. Asking the guy mentioned in many books and publications and responsible for so many projects in this industry.

How many lines of snakes are named after you?

I believe Rich is responsible for the Caramel, lavender, Amber, Miami, and many selectively bred lines that carry his name.

What animals are coined after or by you?

Besides, Rich has been retired for awhile.

 

[asixtwo]

So was this business plan developed since last October?






Elitist sounding much? That's kind of a rather amusing comment to pose to Rich?

A friend insisted I post them here to see how they'd do.
The entire experience just re-enforced my belief to not sell online.

If bothering to attempt to address ignorant, rude, misguided, comments makes me sound elitist.... Then I must be elitist.

What does attacking the quality of a collection you've never seen, or the integrity of a man you've never met make you?

Did I assume/comment that anyone who sells here overproduces commodity animals?

Did I say anything negative about another poster's ethics or the quality of the animals they produce.

Did I criticize the way anyone else is doing business?

I guess suggesting that a prospective buyer invest a little time and money and money on traveling to a few expos, or visiting a few breeders before they buy an animal might not fit into the business model of some of the posters.

Or maybe I should list the name of the fauna seller who sent a good friend over a dozen very high priced corn snakes that arrived half dead, about a year ago? Or better yet possibly the name of the poster who vouched for the seller.

And for the record...
I know who Rich is, I've bought animals from him in the past.
That's why I was a little taken back by his comment.

 

[Dennis Hultman]

What does attacking the quality of a collection you've never seen, or the integrity of a man you've never met make you?

I haven't stated anything about the quality of your animals. Nothing.

Did I assume/comment that anyone who sells here overproduces commodity animals?

Yes you did.

It's obvious that some people here are simply concerned with selling their animals.

 

[Dennis Hultman]

Or maybe I should list the name of the fauna seller who sent a good friend over a dozen very high priced corn snakes that arrived half dead, about a year ago? Or better yet possibly the name of the poster who vouched for the seller.

Your friend should if the situation wasn't corrected. We aren't about concealing things. That is what the BOI is for. We want to know who to deal with. It's a disservice in my opinion to the rest of the community not to tell when someone has been cheated. But why would you want to target someone who stated someone was good to deal with? I'm sure they probably would like to know too.

Look, anybody could join and post a classified. There are risks. Everyone has the ability to minimize those risks by researching who you are buying from.

And yes, bad people can be among us and have a good track record of selling until something goes wrong. It happens all the time. There are also many great people that go above and beyond. It's like any other hobby. Sometimes people suck.


Your free to minimize your risks however you see fit. I still believe it does a disservice telling new people who sign-up to use this site not to buy online. It does a disservice to many good people out there that utilize this site and others.

And Frankly, it's bad form to be running around a website telling people not to use the service that it provides. What business owner would put up with that?

I mean really, if I was on your site telling people not to buy from you, I wouldn't expect you to put up with me for long.

This site belongs to Rich, it's his property and investment and you are basically telling people not to utilize his service. I wouldn't look upon that very favorable if I were him. Why would I let somebody use my service to tell others not to use my service?

 

[lauraleellbp]

IMO a business without an active online presence of some sort may survive while the Boomer generation is still alive.

In a few decades I think it's extremely unlikely. Gen X finds everything by going online to look first. It may be a few blocks away or they may drive past a business every day- but if they don't see it online when they go to look for whatever it is they're looking for... it doesn't exist. Gen Y is even more to the extreme in terms of immersion in the "virtual" rather than "real" world.

People can evolve or not evolve their business strategies in relation to changes in their potential customer bases accordingly. Whether or not they choose to is completely their own business and tied to their own personal goals.

If I were close to retirement age, wasn't intrested in passing along or selling a business to someone else, was content with the current status and income from my business, and not interested in expanding my clientele and business model into new territory, I probably wouldn't bother online, either.

 

[asixtwo]

I still believe it does a disservice telling new people who sign-up to use this site not to buy online.

I never said not to buy online, I said not to shop online.

I BUY from people I know all the time.
They might send me an email, or point me to an ad online, and if I like the animal, I'll strike a deal and arrange for transportation.

I have no problem buying animals reputable dealers, but I'd still be leery about buying/trading with a hobby breeder 1000 miles away.

I'm not saying you shouldn't BUY online from people you know and trust. All I'm saying is, get to know who you're doing business with before you buy from them.

After all, this a live animal we're talking about.... not an ipod!

Maybe what I should have said is....
Do your research before you buy. Don't assume anything about anybody.

I fell badly that the original posted got scammed, but am I the only person who thinks she could/should have seen this coming and not made the deal in the first place? Wouldn't just a bit more research have made a difference? Wasn't the "word" at the Ohio show to stay away from that one particular vender?

As for my opinion.... it is different, I'll give you that.
Isn't the entire point of a forum to offer up varying viewpoints?

As for the shipping thing.....
I've had animals left to die on my front porch, or on the floor in an unheated warehouse because the UPS driver refused to put a box marked "live reptile" in their truck.

I actually watched one warehouse employee kick my box through the warehouse because "SHE" wasn't going to pick up the box.

How do you think I feel when I need to call a seller and tell him/her that the animal they shipped was killed in transit? Let alone ask for a refund.

I'm amazed at how many people will spend thousands on a ball python, then balk at the cost of Delta Dash over fedex!

My preference is to deliver at a show, or have someone come to my facility, so I can examine the animal with the new owner at the time of the transfer.

 

[Lucille]

I said not to shop online....

point me to an ad online, and if I like the animal, I'll strike a deal

..........

 

[Dennis Hultman]

Maybe what I should have said is....
Do your research before you buy. Don't assume anything about anybody.

I fell badly that the original posted got scammed, but am I the only person who thinks she could/should have seen this coming and not made the deal in the first place? Wouldn't just a bit more research have made a difference?

I agree with bulk of your post. Its just not how I understood your original post.

 

[lauraleellbp]

I never said not to buy online, I said not to shop online.

Because...?

I'm not saying you shouldn't BUY online from people you know and trust. All I'm saying is, get to know who you're doing business with before you buy from them.

After all, this a live animal we're talking about.... not an ipod!

Maybe what I should have said is....
Do your research before you buy. Don't assume anything about anybody.

I agree- which ironically enough actually is part of the reason I PREFER to buy online most of the time. My point is that this can be accomplished through building relationships within the context of the various online communities as well as taking advantage of the relatively few face-to-face opportunites that may present themselves depending on your relative location.

My preference is to deliver at a show, or have someone come to my facility, so I can examine the animal with the new owner at the time of the transfer.

I wish that were more of an option, myself. I guess you have the luxury of either having enough breeders local to you or the ability to fly all over the country yourself to accomplish this?

 

[asixtwo]

The way that Lucille clipped my text must have been an accident.
Here is the original text....

I BUY from people I know all the time.
They might send me an email, or point me to an ad online, and if I like the animal, I'll strike a deal and arrange for transportation.


Her post....
Originally Posted by asixtwo View Post
I said not to shop online....

point me to an ad online, and if I like the animal, I'll strike a deal

 

[SpitZu]

No. That was her way of pointing out a contradiction.