Resuscitating A Reptile : A MUST KNOW!

[rosebud945]

But Ed, what if you took what she wrote here and interpreted it differently than she meant for you to. Then you pick up your dragon, shake it wrong, and give it brain damage, paralysis, or worse, you kill it trying to save it? I think that we need more detail here.

 

[Ed Clark]

then.. "Here is how I saved my dragons from drowning" still would have been better suited.

Agreed *Big hugs*

 

[Mooing Tricycle]

This should not have been posted as factual information with the suggestion that it be used on peoples animals. especially not a "How To". Passing out this kind of information without the proper veterinary qualifications can absolutely be detrimental to an animals well being without further study. Nicole is NOT a vet, she should NOT be passing out this information as a suggestion for other Keepers to do the same.

Not to mention that there was NO warning about the problems that could occur if this "Method" were to be preformed incorrectly.... and that it may actually worsen the problem!!! Absolutely irresponsible information.

 

[Ed Clark]

This should not have been posted as factual information with the suggestion that it be used on peoples animals. especially not a "How To". Passing out this kind of information without the proper veterinary qualifications can absolutely be detrimental to an animals well being without further study. Nicole is NOT a vet, she should NOT be passing out this information as a suggestion for other Keepers to do the same.

Not to mention that there was NO warning about the problems that could occur if this "Method" were to be preformed incorrectly.... and that it may actually worsen the problem!!! Absolutely irresponsible information.

What do you suggest then? whats your answer?

Standing there and watching an animal die? or not attempting to revive a dragon that is near death from drowning.

 

[rosebud945]

I say ask your vet to show you what to do.

 

[Ed Clark]

I say ask your vet to show you what to do.

Thats not so easy to do when you walk into your herp room and find a dragon with its head under water and drowning. at that point you dont have the time to call your vet, you act with any training you have. or that dragon is a dead dragon.

 

[rosebud945]

Thats not so easy to do when you walk into your herp room and find a dragon with its head under water and drowning. at that point you dont have the time to call your vet, you act with any training you have. or that dragon is a dead dragon.

Well, but why would you?? I never leave my dragons unattended in a bath and I never put a water bowl in their vivs that is deep enough for them to drown in.

I meant talk to your vet about it next time you see the vet. I did not mean that you should wait until your beardie is drowning. My point here is that you can't know exactly what to do from Nicole's first post. She needs to clarify some things and better yet, needs to provide a video. She says that she was SHOWN what she is trying to explain, and I think that any medical technique that you use on a person or an animal, whether it is an emergency procedure or otherwise, needs to be shown and better yet, taught hands on. Have you ever heard of shaken baby syndrome? Well, that is what you can do to your beardie if you shake it too hard or shake it wrong.

 

[hhmoore]

I had several thoughts when I first saw this thread, the first being about putting a dead lizards head in my mouth. Think about it - you walk into the room and see a bearded dragon with its head submerged, apparently dead...unless you were there just a few minutes before, you have no idea that this is a new occurrence (and therefore a salvagable animal). Now, jump to bacteria and parasites...and factor in temperatures + water, then put that bad boy in your mouth.
The next thought was regarding picking it up by the base of the tail and shaking it (kind of brings to mind a little boy chasing a girl around, doesn't it?). I would think that it would be more secure, and safer for the dragon, to be grasped around the body - this would allow for any sort of positioning, and better control of the shake (??WTF??).
Holding the mouth open with a popsicle stick? Are you serious? Maybe while shaking your dead dragon - but couldn't that process cause more bacteria laden fluid to come up into the mouth or run out onto the face (which you are about to put into your mouth ). On a more serious side, unless you broke the popsicle stick off close to the head, it would be a deterrent to serious resuscitative measures anyway, as it would prevent a seal from being made. When doing CPR on a baby, you don't worry about keeping the mouth open - your mouth is over their nose and mouth, so the air will go in.*

Of course, my statements regarding CPR should be taken with a grain of salt, since I let my BLS and ACLS instructor statuses expire after teaching for 10 and 6 yrs, respectively

 

[hhmoore]

Have you ever heard of shaken baby syndrome? Well, that is what you can do to your beardie if you shake it too hard or shake it wrong.

With all respect, I think that the two are very different. I think the damage to a beardie, caused by shaking it by the tail, would be much different than shaken baby syndrome...


After thinking about it for another minute, or so, I was going to retract that, as it is probably possible to cause similar damage if the shaking were violent enough....but then I paused again for more thought. I think if you were to shake it violently enough to cause the neurological damage seen in shaken baby, the tail would probably break off in your hand...sending the beardie flying across the room. (little light bulb goes on) Maybe THAT'S why the vet said to hold it by the tail - to serve as a failsafe against the possibility of causing shaken baby syndrome!! This makes much more sense now

 

[rosebud945]

With all respect, I think that the two are very different. I think the damage to a beardie, caused by shaking it by the tail, would be much different than shaken baby syndrome...


After thinking about it for another minute, or so, I was going to retract that, as it is probably possible to cause similar damage if the shaking were violent enough....but then I paused again for more thought. I think if you were to shake it violently enough to cause the neurological damage seen in shaken baby, the tail would probably break off in your hand...sending the beardie flying across the room. (little light bulb goes on) Maybe THAT'S why the vet said to hold it by the tail - to serve as a failsafe against the possibility of causing shaken baby syndrome!! This makes much more sense now

Yeah, Harald, you are right. I was very tired last night. Shaken baby syndrome occurs when the brain is repeatedly and violently knocked back against the scull. You would have to shake the lizard pretty hard to do that specific thing, but you could easily cause brain and spinal damage by shaking the lizard from the tail.

But again, why would you walk in and find a beardie floating in water deep enough to drown it?? I don't leave beardies unattended in a bath or keep water bowls in beardie vivs, but if you do, and if it is a water bowl shallow enough that the beardie can easily get out of it, which it should be, then that beardie must have something else wrong with it. But even if I suspend disbelief and go with the idea that one of my beardies could drown, without seeing exactly what Nicole means, this advice could do more harm than good, or simply be ineffective.

 

[Tiger Lilly]

OK, in retrospect, it sounded like a good idea at the time. But after others have raised valid questions, I have to agree that maybe I was wrong in jumping on the bandwagon so quickly.
This is similar to the time I saved a gerbil by putting it in the dryer--AFTER it had been running for a few minutes, to warm it up after the temps had dipped more than they were supposed to. It worked for me, but may not be 'text book' gerbil life-saving technique.
See, I can admit when I'm wrong...

PS--after being bitten by my dragon, I can tell you that the last thing I will EVER do is put my mouth over his...dragons may be docile by nature, but I have one that is evil, I tell you!

 

[Ed Clark]

This is Sophia, without quick action on Nicoles part Sophia would certainly be dead.

 

[Miss Tuniwha]

Again, more valid points have been made.

If you see an animal dead with its head under water, what is the likely hood that it actually drowned?

One of the well known things with beardies is to not have a water dish that is too deep. To supply them with one they can easily get in and out of.

So if you go to your dragon cage, and find him with his head under the water, not breathing, drowning should not be the first thing on your mind.

Off hand, I would think that the dragon was either ill, and very week (which would then make sense, being too week to lift up out of the water dish) or the dish was way too deep.

and if this was a "bath time" incident... well, that just raises some issues on a few different levels.

I am glad that you were able to save your dragons with this method.

I am curious as to HOW you had this happen. not once, but TWICE.

I have yet to have a dragon drown. (granted over only 8 years of having/breeding dragons, so I am aware that I am still fairly new)

Only drowning issue I have EVER had, was a new born baby leopard gecko. I had an auto water dish (the reptile kind) but did not realize that the little screen had fallen out. The gecko climbed up and inside of it and died. A lesson learned the hard way for me.

 

[rosebud945]

What's that old saying, an ounce of prevention . . .?

 

[JoshR324]

good info in here

 

[Helenthereef]

I think all this debate is good, but the aggressive tone Seamus originally took was unwarranted, and would have hurt anyone's feelings. The advice may or may not have been the best, but it was meant in the spirit of sharing helpful information, and this is now someone who won't be sharing much again, I bet.

 

[rin0425]

I am a Certified veterinary Technician and though the principal behind Nicoles advice is valid, there are a few details that are either wrong or missing. I am currently on vacation, but when i get back to work (I work at the midwest's largest Emergency and Critical care facility) I will be doing some research and post my findings. I work with 2 well known and seasoned exotics vets. Then we can put this to rest. Check back in a week or so!
Aaron

 

[Helenthereef]

That would be great, Aaron, an impartial and qualified opinion would be very valuable here.

 

[Ed Clark]

I am a Certified veterinary Technician and though the principal behind Nicoles advice is valid, there are a few details that are either wrong or missing. I am currently on vacation, but when i get back to work (I work at the midwest's largest Emergency and Critical care facility) I will be doing some research and post my findings. I work with 2 well known and seasoned exotics vets. Then we can put this to rest. Check back in a week or so!
Aaron

Thank you Aaron, if you could help fine tune this technique so it will work better that would be great. its very refreshing to see a friendly and positive attitude in this discussion.

 

[rin0425]

Its an important thing to know and I have to admit, ive been a CVT for 7 years, and im not very informed myself...when i read this I realized that its something we all should know for sure. Since I have access to it, I figure Ill share it and we can all be clear. Im glad that what Nicole did worked for her. I know shes a good dragon mom and I do agree that in that situation, we do what we can. Im glad her beardie is ok.