Rich Zuchowski aka Webslave Ethical or not ???

[WebSlave]

Perhaps a bit off-topic, but an excellent point. A few of us expressed significant reservations with Rich's decision to relax rules, membership participation, and allowing banned entities access again. In just a few days the results are not encouraging. This thread is nothing but Alan 2004 and Alan 2005 all over again. The blink of an eye that it takes to burn something down will always be an insult to the time it took to build it up. That certain specific entities have a clear and proven track record of mischief and harm to this site, and are now allowed to be keyboard warriors here again, contains nothing of encouragement. For too many occasional but valued members here, it will cease to be worth the trouble. Again, all just IMHO.

Actually I disagree with this assessment of the changes I made. I think this thread is a perfect example of my handing someone the rope and getting their own neck entangled in it. THAT used to be the way the BOI was most effective. Sorry but it was pretty much a constant battle trying to enforce my rules that I felt would make this forum more professional and more credible. Quite frankly, it just is not what people want here. And it just is not worth my time, trouble, and headaches to try to FORCE people to be the way I want them to be.

And to be perfectly honest, I actually believe this may have gotten fun and entertaining again. I know I had one really good belly laugh over this particular thread! That has to be worth something......

As for unbanning or un-suspending members, no, I have not done that, and not really sure that I will. As an example of my reasoning, if you have a section of road that used to have a 35 mph speed limit and it gets raised to 55 mph, do all of the people who got tickets for exceeding 35 mph in that zone get refunds after the speed limit is raised? No, I don't think so. But in any event, if someone does approach me about lifting their suspension, I will look at it and decide on a case by case basis whether I should be lenient about their past situation.

 

[Chameleon Company]

Rich,
I understand the upsides to your decisions. I would also agree that there is some sport in shooting fish in a barrel when they put themselves there voluntarily ... the "enough rope" adage. Entertaining ... OK, at times, but moreso to the lesser aspects of our character, or characters with lesser aspects. Constructive .... not as much IMO. On the downside, I don't know that its been particularly fun for a few other entities of otherwise good standing. Naturally, I could care less about the fish. There will be more of the mudfights of old here again, and in mudfights, all get dirty. The solution is not to participate, I know. I believe that must now extend to good threads more easily hijacked and gone bad, and they will suffer attrition. Time will tell.

 

[Otter_23]

Actually I disagree with this assessment of the changes I made. I think this thread is a perfect example of my handing someone the rope and getting their own neck entangled in it. THAT used to be the way the BOI was most effective. Sorry but it was pretty much a constant battle trying to enforce my rules that I felt would make this forum more professional and more credible. Quite frankly, it just is not what people want here. And it just is not worth my time, trouble, and headaches to try to FORCE people to be the way I want them to be.

And to be perfectly honest, I actually believe this may have gotten fun and entertaining again. I know I had one really good belly laugh over this particular thread! That has to be worth something......

As for unbanning or un-suspending members, no, I have not done that, and not really sure that I will. As an example of my reasoning, if you have a section of road that used to have a 35 mph speed limit and it gets raised to 55 mph, do all of the people who got tickets for exceeding 35 mph in that zone get refunds after the speed limit is raised? No, I don't think so. But in any event, if someone does approach me about lifting their suspension, I will look at it and decide on a case by case basis whether I should be lenient about their past situation.

Ah but if someone gets the death penalty and it is abolished they are no longer on death row. You can find examples to back either claim. Regardless it is you choice Rich. I think part of the constant problem you find yourself in is you allow others to draw you into power struggles. Make a decision and stick by it. You don't have to be condescending or rude or tell people if they don't like just leave. Can't you just say that's my choice sorry you don't agree (if you choose to say anything) and move on? If people continue to badger give them the "that's enough" and I think a majority will respectfully back off. Those that don't are quite aware of what the possible consequences may be. When they go try to refrain from the "don't let the door hit ya", "see ya buh bye" etc... I think it will help you avoid some of these power struggles and although it may be tough to begin with I honestly think you will start to see a change in the "bad group" attitudes. I am kind of sick of the us against them mentality. There are the key players on each supposed side but I think a majority would prefer to not be lumped in either category.

 

[Lucille]

Edmund Burke said, noted British statesman and philosopher of the 1700's, is best known for this quote: ‘The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.’ Thankfully, many of the more level-headed and decent members of Fauna took the time to post their disdain for Alan's actions here. If he wants to continue the trouble .... come on down, cause he'll get smacked down all over again, with prejudice.

WORD!!!

 

[WebSlave]

Ah but if someone gets the death penalty and it is abolished they are no longer on death row. You can find examples to back either claim. Regardless it is you choice Rich. I think part of the constant problem you find yourself in is you allow others to draw you into power struggles. Make a decision and stick by it. You don't have to be condescending or rude or tell people if they don't like just leave. Can't you just say that's my choice sorry you don't agree (if you choose to say anything) and move on? If people continue to badger give them the "that's enough" and I think a majority will respectfully back off. Those that don't are quite aware of what the possible consequences may be. When they go try to refrain from the "don't let the door hit ya", "see ya buh bye" etc... I think it will help you avoid some of these power struggles and although it may be tough to begin with I honestly think you will start to see a change in the "bad group" attitudes. I am kind of sick of the us against them mentality. There are the key players on each supposed side but I think a majority would prefer to not be lumped in either category.

I do understand what you are saying, but perhaps the fact that I am a human being just like everyone else here sometimes escapes peoples notice. I get frustrated, angry, and disgusted just like everyone else does. When I say the same thing over and over again going on the fifth YEAR or so, well sometimes it just gets old. Some people just seem unable or unwilling to recognize that concept of leaving if they are not happy here and gives me the impression that it must be explicitly stated to them. In effect THAT is a warning in itself to either leave, cut the crap, or get escorted out the door forcibly.

Power struggle? Sorry, I'm not following that one at all. I am just responding to the results I see from prior decisions and then trying to make accommodations to those prior changes that are either not making the desired differences here, or apparently being detrimental to one or more reasons for this site to even be here. There are NO perfect solutions. And in some cases I may find that something I had done earlier appears to be the better of the multiple choices to pick from. That's just the way this has to work. So I'm not sure what you mean by "power struggle". There are no sacred cows here, and anyone who deserves sanctions will get them, regardless of their prior history or participation on this site. That includes the largest advertisers as well. No one carries a "get out of jail free" card here.

As for the death penalty analogy, sorry, I can't go along with that one. The severity of the issues involved with a fine and suspension here, even a ban, is no where near the severity that involves a person's life as in a death penalty conviction. That is exactly why I picked the speeding ticket example. In my opinion, it is much closer to a fair comparison.

 

[SPJ]

The way this site is heading, it will not be a worthwhile stop anymore.

This bickering is destroying Fauna.

I like Alan. I also didn't agree with what happened YEARS AGO LUCILLE!

And Alan, I think everyone already saw those screenshots.

Dredging crap up is doing nothing but turning the BOI into a joke.

This whole site is starting to go down the tubes.

 

[Gary O]

Guys this is going to be quick and simple.

Alan is saying when the lawsuit went down Rich was posting making people feel bad for him. But He did it and thought it could get hits here. He said it. Read the pics.

Rich was in the wrong buying that domain.

If I were to do that with a Fauna like name I would be hung here. Right? but becuase many do not like KS it is ok for Rich to do it? Right is right and wrong is wrong. He went after the domain for one reason to get revenge on Jeff. Bottom line.

 

[Gary O]

Also I am not saying take sides. I am just pointing out where Alan is comeing from as many are not seeing it.

BOI is about wrong doings right?

 

[Chameleon Company]

Gary,
So right is right and wrong it wrong !! Why didn't anybody ever tell me this before !!

Sarcasm aside, some agree with what Rich did. Some do not. It has nothing to do with right or wrong to most of us. BTW, some of us also see evidence peddling as being sleazy, regardless of where "someone is coming from". Next.

 

[Gary O]

So again I ask how would you feel if say I, KS(jeff), RTB any of the other sites did this to Rich and fauna? Really how would you feel. Would it be right?

Again that is what the boi is all about right? talking about trying to hurt another business and that is what KS is a business.

 

[deicide]

So again I ask how would you feel if say I, KS(jeff), RTB any of the other sites did this to Rich and fauna? Really how would you feel. Would it be right?

Again that is what the boi is all about right? talking about trying to hurt another business and that is what KS is a business.

I absolutely agree.

My whole take on this is as follows.

While I do see the humor here.
I must add as a person who makes a good deal of my income
from websites I find the actions by Rich to be quite unethical.

I sell advertising space on my websites based on the stats of that website.
How many direct hits, how many hits from search engines, etc..
Now by setting up a domain like that with hopes people will end up at
his site other than the other I actually find quite reprehensible.

You all may get a laugh out of it but it really can affect not only the person that owns
the site but also affect the advertisers on that site. And that is a real loss of revenue.

Now lets think about this. All these people who were redirected to this site provided hits and
also saw the advertising banners here. That is a possble source of revenue. Would I call it stealing??
well not in the harshest sense. But I do find it to show a lack of character and ethics.


My $.02

-deicide

 

[deicide]

Grrr forgot my name.

-Rory Rygiewicz

 

[Otter_23]

The power struggle is intended to mean you own the site and have the right to run the site as you choose. You can take suggestions but when you decline to heed those suggestions that should be end of discussion but they often spiral from there and it becomes a pissing match or power struggle. By keeping your presence in those threads some try to power there will or suggestion. Does that make sense? I have disagreed with some of your choices and agreed with some. My biggest "issues" would be at times how you have addressed people concerning the issues. I know we are all human and get fed up with some things but some people have been humilated or emabarassed when they asked a simple question. It seems that you let a few push your buttons and respond in kind to many that way. I know toughen and deal with it, which I have been doing but I see many hold respentments about it and then you wonder why things months later blow up. On a side note I think making the Boi free was a great move. I think it lost some of it's punch and effectiveness which I hope will come back, and I don't mean the rude fighting back and forth but the honest people who have had dealings and not just opinons will post more.

In terms of internet forums and those who spend a large amount of time on them I liken the speeding ticket to a warning and banishment and suspension to death row/life sentences and long prison terms. I know some are going to say how can you compare death and fines, well put on your philosophical hats and give it a whirl.

 

[Gary O]

I absolutely agree.

My whole take on this is as follows.

While I do see the humor here.
I must add as a person who makes a good deal of my income
from websites I find the actions by Rich to be quite unethical.

I sell advertising space on my websites based on the stats of that website.
How many direct hits, how many hits from search engines, etc..
Now by setting up a domain like that with hopes people will end up at
his site other than the other I actually find quite reprehensible.

You all may get a laugh out of it but it really can affect not only the person that owns
the site but also affect the advertisers on that site. And that is a real loss of revenue.

Now lets think about this. All these people who were redirected to this site provided hits and
also saw the advertising banners here. That is a possble source of revenue. Would I call it stealing??
well not in the harshest sense. But I do find it to show a lack of character and ethics.


My $.02

-deicide

Yes that is another great point.

I believe people are not seeing these points becuase of it being against KS. But I know for a fact flip this around and wow the opinions would change. Mine would stay the smae. If someone registered a name that mimiced fauanas to steal hits it would be 100% wrong. and that person to should be looked at.

 

[critical bill]

The way this site is heading, it will not be a worthwhile stop anymore. This bickering is destroying Fauna. This whole site is starting to go down the tubes.

Its really nothing more than a failed attempt at it...when you look at the posts.

It really breaks down to what you are using the site for. If you wish to pay attention to the insane ramblings from any number of people...you can find it here on fauna. If you wish to pay attention to any number of people requesting help about their animals...you can find it here on fauna. If you wish to open your heart you can find some really sad stories, and if wish to be a dumbass you can find a slew of other dumbasses. You can be part of the problem in one case and part of a cure in the other in the same day. Its really how you wish to spend your time and what you enjoy doing the most.

Accusations to harm or suggestions to help, which should we choose to do?

Alan chose a way, took his shot, and in return got shot down. He took the tube ride, not fauna. Maybe had Alan suggested instead of accusing he'd have faired a bit better. Maybe if his shot wasn't a tracer round? But all we have now is his limp body. Bye Alan, Bye.

 

[esoteric-lizard]

what comes to my mind from the response below (and this thread) is the monopolization of real estate and the cornering of businesses by the McDonald's corp.... McDonald's makes money off of other people's business, and so does KS.

so the moral of the story, in the business world anything goes!

if there is such a big deal then someone should buy the domain name faunaclassified.com and link people to ks... come on people this is America, being unethical is the American way, lol!

with that said ~ kingsnake is McDonald corp...and fauna is Burger King, where you can have it your way!

I absolutely agree.

My whole take on this is as follows.

While I do see the humor here.
I must add as a person who makes a good deal of my income
from websites I find the actions by Rich to be quite unethical.

I sell advertising space on my websites based on the stats of that website.
How many direct hits, how many hits from search engines, etc..
Now by setting up a domain like that with hopes people will end up at
his site other than the other I actually find quite reprehensible.

You all may get a laugh out of it but it really can affect not only the person that owns
the site but also affect the advertisers on that site. And that is a real loss of revenue.

Now lets think about this. All these people who were redirected to this site provided hits and
also saw the advertising banners here. That is a possble source of revenue. Would I call it stealing??
well not in the harshest sense. But I do find it to show a lack of character and ethics.


My $.02

-deicide

 

[Gary O]

I bet Rich would not feel the same way if any other site had a domain like fauna's. Even if that person in the end said it was just a joke. Last time I heard people that do not like one another do not play jokes on one another.

Take Rich's name out of it and put any other two sites and I bet you would find the erson that had the domain stealing traffic in the wrong.

 

[esoteric-lizard]

I bet Rich would not feel the same way if any other site had a domain like fauna's. Even if that person in the end said it was just a joke. Last time I heard people that do not like one another do not play jokes on one another.

Take Rich's name out of it and put any other two sites and I bet you would find the erson that had the domain stealing traffic in the wrong.

is this illegal... stealing traffic?

there a many things in this world that people would think are wrong... but just becuase pople feel this way doenst make it wrong... its all perspective.

maybe the owners of KS are greedy and want to control the internet?

 

[Junkyard]

I may not agree with Rich buying the domain, it was his choice and he did it without running from everyone and denying it. I also do not agree with Alan coming here just to complain about it. There are so many other ways to expend the pent up energy, this was one of the worst tries I have ever seen at it. Especially over an incident that is so old, lose the grudge and get over it. Why is it that people cannot leave their old pants in their past?

 

[hhmoore]

Just out of curiosity - how long has it been since kingsnakeS.com actually had anything on it...especially anything pertaining to this site??