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RIPOFF WARNING and REWARD

O

oreganus

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Ken Harris or anyone else at the address 1415 Pearson drive, Dalton, Georgia is/are a thief.  I sent a snake to him that I was suppose to get a pair of greentrees for.  Well, I agreed to cross-ship. I am sure you know the story here.  I was given a phone number of some church in Georgia after I demanded to know where the greentrees were. Email addy was also cancelled today([email protected]).  I will Pay anyone for information and recovery of my stolen snake and information on the person and/or persons living at the above address.  If anyone in Georgia can help me, let me know.
Thanks,
Kevin
 
Kevin...I m SO sorry to hear about your "theft"!! With that said....YOU'RE AN IDIOT!!! How many times have ALL OF US said to NEVER SHIP FIRST (or the same day) WITH SOMEONE YOU DON'T KNOW??? What is WRONG with you people?? Are you THAT gullible to believe what he was offering?? I got an email from one of the TOP breeders LAST NIGHT asking me THE SAME THING!! "Should I go through with this trade deal"?? I'll tell you (all) what I told him....If KEN asked for the trade....HE SHIPS FIRST!! PERIOD!! One of these days...you folks are gonna learn! Or, you're gonna be ripped off, A LOT!!
I know, I know...some of you are gonna slam me because I'm being so hard on Kevin...but, YOU KNOW ME!! When I hear STUPIDITY talking....I TALK BACK, in the HOPES that getting berated will get you to THINK before you AGREE to something SO RIDICULOUS!

Heed the Monks!! ...Neil
 
<<How many times have ALL OF US said to NEVER SHIP FIRST (or the same day) WITH SOMEONE YOU DON'T KNOW??? >>

Neil, that sounds good in theory, but not in practice.  If we all followed that, there would be no trading.  If neither person will ships first because they don't know the other person, well, then, what happens?

What if the guy who got burned asked for the trade? Does it mean he deserved it?

The only way to prevent against getting burned in a trade is to have a friend in the state who you ship the animals to and who trades the animals with the guy in person.  Further, when trading with a "business" get a copy of their business permit and call the local Fish and Wildlife.  Please be advised that the term "business" encompasses all people breeding, selling, buying reptiles. If they don't have a permit, then get a copy of their driving license, I do it all the time when I take a check.  It has helped me numerous times when they bounce a check.  Anyways, I am sure there are other ways to prevent getting duped, these are just a few thoughts.

Ciro Spina
 
Sorry, Ciro....I DO NOT AGREE! If you follow these TWO EASY STEPS....You will NEVER go wrong!

1. If HE offers the trade...HE SHIPS FIRST! PERIOD!

2. If YOU offer the trade...YOU SHIP FIRST! PERIOD!

The ONLY way I would agree to a "same-day" shipping...is if I KNEW the other party! And, I mean KNOW HIM WELL!!!, which means you've ALREADY done business with him, and you TRUST him! Other than that...FORGET IT!!

If you follow those "rules" TO THE LETTER....you will VERY RARELY have a problem!

The only caveat to that is if YOU offer the trade (and have to ship first)....get his name, address, phone number and email addy BEFORE shipping...and then CALL THE NUMBER FIRST to make SURE he lives there! Call the BBB and ask, get on HERE and ask...FIRST!!

"Heed the Monks"!! ....Neil
 
HUUUMMMM that's weird my post vanished?!?!?  Oh well I'll just do it again.  

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It's not weird at all.  The rules are that you MUST post messages with your FULL NAME in them or they will be deleted.  Heck, I dunno, maybe I just haven't posted this in enough places for people to read it.    <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='???'>

Matter of fact, this entire thread will be deleted if the person whom started it does not comply with this rule.
</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
 
Whoops!  OK I was thinking I had done all that when I registered.  No Problem, all posts in the future will have my full name.  

Anyway Neil, hate to disagree, but your way is no where near perfect either.  Case in point, I offered and agreed to a trade w/ Dan Atkinson out of CA.  He accepted, so I shipped all my animals first per his instructions.   He kept all my animals, sent part of what he promised, and said he would make up the difference later.  Needless to say, he did not.  I think the moral of the story is this: doing business over the web and through the mail is risky, period.  Doing trades is even more risky because you can't use a credit card to protect yourself.  Just MHO Brian Conley

Hope that's all I need to post.
 
Brian...Did you KNOW Dan?? Have you done A LOT of business BEFORE this trade was set up? Have you ever spoke to him ON THE PHONE??
Sorry, man...my "steps" are FOOL-PROOF! There is NOTHING ON THIS EARTH that I need THAT BADLY to risk a trade with someone I DON'T KNOW! UNLESS he ships FIRST...then, it's a no-brainer!!
Brian...If you tell me that you DO know Dan and you HAVE done biz with him before...then HE IS A RIPOFF ARTIST and I would NEVER do ANYTHING with him, or for him, again! On the other hand...if you just talked to him ONCE or TWICE on the phone (but have never done any business with him), and you agreed to ship him all your animals first...then guess who's the idiot in THAT scenario??
Brian...You'll NEVER convince me that MY WAY is NOT the BEST WAY to handle a trade!
....Neil
 
Neil, no I didn't know him personally.  I did talk to him on the phone.  I offered him the trade and he used the same logic you are:  well you offered the trade so you ship first.  I guess what you're saying is, if you don't already know the person don't trade is that correct?  Brian Conley
 
If you are going to ship first in a trade at least include an invoice for the value of the animal and request a signiture. This way if you get burned you can go after them for the unpaid invoice, not just a trade value which I don't think will hold up in court. Just my 02. cents

Steve Brockschmidt
Brocks Boids
 
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OK.  Are the rules that hard to follow?  Here's a guy that HAD to read the other messages in this thread about using your FULL NAME in each message and dang if he didn't go and ignore this rule!  Do you think the rules apply to everyone BUT you?

I'm trying to be nice about this, because it is MUCH easier for me to just click on the *delete* button and your message is gone.  But being nice is REAL tiring to me.

WebSlave

</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
 
Brian...ABSOLUTELY CORRECT!!! There is NOTHING on this EARTH that you NEED that badly, to risk getting ripped off! If you don't KNOW the person...I mean KNOW the person...NOT, we've spoken once or twice, NOT, HE's bought some animals from ME in the past...NOT, he SEEMS like a trustworhy guy...I mean KNOW the person...LET HIM PEDDLE HIS STUFF TO SOMEONE ELSE! There will ALWAYS be something else waiting for you (that you GOTTA HAVE) right around the corner, from someone you KNOW AND TRUST!!...Just have the patience to WAIT FOR IT! If you EVER have another trade deal like that, again...just CALL ME...I'll tell you EXACTLY how NOT to get ripped off??? Look, Brain...I KNOW you're honest, YOU know you're honest...HONEST PEOPLE can NEVER get ripped off ...UNLESS they LET THEMSELVES get ripped off! THINK BEFORE YOU ACT!! That'll go a LONG WAY to alleviating some of your stress! Unless, of course...you LIKE agida??

....Neil
 
Okay, i haven't posted on the BOI since this move and everything, but I felt some strange urge to ad on to this thread.  

Okay, to Kevin, that really sucks man!  I am here in GA and if I knew the guy, I would help you out with some info.  If I hear of anything, I will post it.  BTW, lemme know what animals he got and I can help keep an eye out for them popping up for sale around here.

Now to Neil...

Why don't we just not trade herps ANYMORE???  According to you, no one should trade because someone would have to ship first, and unless they know the person they are dealing with intimately and have been to their house and played with their new puppy and have eaten thanksgiving dinner with them(okay, a LITTLE exagerated), they shouldn't trade at all.  And if they do ship first, they are too stupid to get what they deserve?  Please tell me that is not what I am reading!  I agree with you 100% that there will always be risks involved in dealing herps online, especially in trade deals.  That is why I have carbon copy receipts of EVERY deal I do, trade or cash.  I can always go back and say, "on this date blank should have shipped me a blank in payment for a blank."
I always do ship the same day deals.  Does that mean I am stupid or that I am trying to rip someone off???  No, I have never ripped anyone off, nor have I been ripped off on trade deals when I do it my way, so I don't think I am stupid or that I am a thief.  
I feel that same day trades are a good way to trade since it is a better way for both parties to be on equal ground so to speak.  No one is stuck holding the bag, and animals arrive to both parties at the same time roughly(barring shipping mishaps).  But OF COURSE people will get scammed this way!  just as they will if they stick to your method.  It is the way of the world that in any business there will be rip offs.  I am not trying to completely disagree with your POV, because you do make some valid points, but just that your way is NOT the ONLY way.  And as someone else said, if we all followed your procedure, the trading part of the herp business would come to a complete halt since noone would want to ship first.  
Anyway, that is just my view and what I see wrong with yours.  I know you'll  find something wrong with the way I do things, but hey, that is what makes this country great:)
 
Rob....Let me clarify something....I am NOT disagreeing with you ONE IOTA!! LIFE is a risk! We take risks every day! TRADING is a RISK!! If you're WILLING to TAKE that risk....then, TRADE AWAY!! But, I can GUARANTEE YOU, that YOU will be ripped off A LOT MORE than I EVER will! MY "steps" are for those who DON'T want to take that risk!
But then....when the "other guy" DOESN'T live up to his end of the bargain....you come here and go for the sympathy card! I'm sorry, but I have NO sympathy for that! You WILLINGLY took the chance, and it blew up in your face....LIVE WITH IT! That's is the chance you took! If you would rather NOT take that chance...then follow my "steps"....how simple is that?? ....Neil
 
<img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'>
HI ALL!
WELL, FOR THE MOST PART I AGREE WITH YOU NEIL;HOWEVER, THIS IS THE BOARD OF INQUIRY. MOST OF US
WHO POST DEALS THAT WENT BAD ARENT LOOKING FOR SYMPATHY. THIS IS THE BOI. ITS FOR POSTING GOOD AND BAD FEEDBACK FROM REPTILE RELATED DEALS. THATS WHAT WE ARE DOING, NOT LOOKING FOR SYMPATHY. I'V HAD 3 BAD DEALS IN MY 100+ SALES/TRADES. I DONT CONSIDER THAT TO BAD. EACH TIME I TRADED I TOOK A RISK AND KNEW IT.
BUT DOES TAKING A RISK MEAN WE SHOULDNT COME HERE AND POST IF THE DEAL GOES BAD <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='???'>?<img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='???'>??
WE ARE TRYING TO SAVE OTHERS A LITTLE GRIEF, AND PROBABLY HAVE TO SOME EXTENT.  IF WE ALL DID IT THE WAY YOU RECOMMEND, YES THERE WOULD BE MUCH LESS RIPP-OFFS. AND PROBABLY HALF OF WHAT WE "LITTLE GUYS"
HAVE WOULD NOT BE IN OUR POSSESION EITHER.

WE WIN SOME , WE LOOSE SOME, AND KNOWINGLY TAKE THE RISK EVERYTIME. THATS JUST HOW MUCH SOME OF US LIKE REPTILES, NOT BECAUSE WE ARE "STUPID" OR "IDIOTS".
AND EVERYTIME ONE OF US GETS RIPPED, OR SEES SOMEONE
TRYING TO PULL A SCAM, WE'LL POST IT. NOT LOOKING FOR SYMPATHY, BUT LOOKING OUT FOR OUR FELLOW "LITTLE HERPERS" WHO SOMETIMES HAVE TO TAKE THE "RISK" TO BE ABLE TO ENJOY A ANIMAL THAT OTHERWISE MIGHT NOT HAVE HAD THE CHANCE TO.

IMAGINE A FEW MONTHS AGO IF I HAD CAME TO YOU FOR A TRADE. YOU WOULD HAVE INSISTED THAT I SHIP FIRST. BUT AT THE TIME I SEE YOU HAVE AN ANIMAL LISTED AS BOTH
CB AND WC SO I GET SUSPICIOUS AND ASK YOU TO.
NOW WE ARE AT A IMPASS, NOT TRADE IS MADE, AND I OR BOTH OF US MISSED OUT ON WHAT WE EACH CONSIDERED A
GOOD TRADE, ALL BECAUSE NEITHER ONE WOULD TAKE THE RISK.

THE GOOD DEALS FAR OUT WAY THE BAD IN MY OPINION. IF NOT FOR RISK, PRACTICALLY NONE OF US WOULD BE WHERE WE ARE TODAY, INCLUDING YOU PROBABLY.

GOD BLESS TO ALL
BEN [email protected].
 
Another day of Neils' bits of wisdom.
Neil can we start calling you dad since you feel it necessary to chastise and preach like a stern father? Maybe everyone can get together once a month and you can administer the spankings we have coming for not listening to your wordly and authorative advice(LOL)!

Jackie Lapradd
 
Well Neil, you really are passionate about being the first to get somehting in a trade.  As I said, I have NEVER been ripped off with the ship the same day method, so to say I will be scammed more than you hasn't come true so far for me, but then again, I don't know how often you have been scammed.  BUT, by receiving  the animal first, doesn't that put YOU in a position to scam someone more than if you both shipped the same day?  That is why I for one will NEVER ship in a "if you don't ship first, no deal" scenario.  THAT my friend, is a scam waiting to happen.  And PLEASE don't think I am implying you are a crook!  I meant no such thing!  I am only making an example so you can better see my point of view and why I won't ship first.  I would have no issue doing business with you at some point(just don't ask me to ship first if we trade;) ), and I would love to come check out the shop one day, really.  

Oh, and to Kevin...

Justa thought, but if it is a venomous snake that was involved, you may want to consider checking with Mike Knight and Hotlanta Reptiles.  He is a great guy, but there is a good chance if it is venomous, it would come through him or he would at least hear about it.
 
Ben...I apologize...your point as well taken! I definitely used the wrong word in that instance...I should have said it exactly as you did! ....ya see how vocabulary can make, or break, a sentence??...
This board is absolutely for giving the heads-up to our fellow herpers, good and bad!! (and having fun doing it&#33<img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'> I was mistaken for looking at it any other way!

Ben...as I said, my "steps" are for people that DON'T want to take ANY chances!! And, believe me...there are A LOT more of them out there than you realize! You should see my emails!! But, you're right...No Pain, No Gain!! Ben...I'm like you! I ALWAYS take the chance, of course, I DO take as many precautions as I can think of...but, I've found, that if I can TALK to someone on the phone, I can USUALLY get a good "feel" for them!! (well, we'll make James the exception to THAT point&#33<img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'> After the conversation, THAT's when I decide to either, go through with the deal, or let it slide! I can tell you quite honestly that I have NEVER (in 5 years of business) been burned in a trade deal! NOT ONCE!! (knock on wood)...And the things that I let slide by...there was somebody else waiting in line for the same thing (in time)...it all depends on how much you really want the animal being offered (which is what they BANK on&#33<img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'>...
See, personally...I HATE HINDSIGHT!! I will ALWAYS try to think what COULD go wrong...and then TRY to work around it! Just try not to RUSH into anything...do your homework on the dealer, then make your decision?? 90% of the time, you'll do fine...just be careful of WHO you deal with???
So Ben...Am I back on your good side now?? lol ....Neil
 
Well here's my two cents on the situation.  I did a trade deal and in a nut shell got taken.  It was my first one (trade) so I wasn't that pissed.  I traded two Leucistic rats and a rubber boa for an adult 7-8 foot female BCI.  I shipped first (was supposed to be a same day ship).  No problems on her end.  She shipped a few days later due to bad weather (I confirmed this).  Though, when the animal arrived it was infested with mites and wasn't as tame as the person advertised (even to this day because at first the animal was VERY aggressive but that hasn't changed after about 2 - 3 weeks, so far).  It turns out that about a week ago I found out the person I traded with was from a rescue facility (her name is Mandy Parrish and/or Mandy Frye) and has already been noted on other informational sites that she is a con artist (actually, I believe it was Rachel Rodgers who posted in the trades forum, in reply to Mandy's post, about her being a con artist.  If it wasn't Rachel Rodgers SORRY, meant no harm but it was someone that frequents Fauna).  Now I'm stuck with an animal I don't really want.  Plus, I feel like she lied to me and I don't even know the truth about the sex of the animal, etc.  Finally, I posted the animal up appropriately in Fauna's trade forum.  Then, Mandy had the nerve to email me and say that should couldn't believe that I was doing this.  That the animal was like a pet to her and she would have never gone through with it if she would have known I was going to trade it off.  I replied by telling her the facts and adding that she should keep her f@#$ing trap shut when she makes out on a trade (especially one that she probably didn't pay anything for her animal unlike me).

So with all that being said it seems to me that to say there is one full proof way to do a trade would be like saying that there's only one method to build a house.  I will take my own experiences and what I read in places like Fauna and proceed accordingly.  Sometimes shipping first, sometimes not.  Sometimes getting taken (hopfully not or not often), sometimes not.  Granted, I agree with Neil that acquiring the appropriate information and confirming it (i.e. calling the number they give you, wait for a couple of email replies, etc.) is VERY important before actually shipping any animals.

The hard part about this forums is that for the most part we only see the bad (and some good).  Though, there's a lot of scumbags out there not all of us are scumbags.  Even some people we don't know intimately.

There's a lot of good advice and tips for doing trades in this post.  I want to thank you all for providing a great post.  Especially considering I was a little jaded about doing another trade deal, ever.

Thanks,
Joshua Ingram
[email protected]
 
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