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riverside reptiles, e. m. allen- inquiry

W

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This guy claims to have produced a lot of tegus including the snow morph.

I can't find any info on him or an actual snow.

Has anyone done business with this guy or seen the snows he's supposedly produced?
 
hey wes, i checked the webstie, and if i am not mistaken it said that the guys who owns riverside reptiles name is Brian Kleinman?
i could have that wrong...

also you have an item up on kingsnakes classifieds that i am fixing to contact you about... :D

matthew
 
brodie691 said:
hey wes, i checked the webstie, and if i am not mistaken it said that the guys who owns riverside reptiles name is Brian Kleinman?
i could have that wrong...

also you have an item up on kingsnakes classifieds that i am fixing to contact you about... :D

matthew
Click to expand...

Wes is talking about this Riverside Reptiles.
http://www.riversidereptiles.net/

The WHOIS information for the site is Ethan Allen
 
The picture on his site looks like an albino but it's not the best picture.

He says he's produced snows but so far it's just him saying so and I'd like to see pictures of babies.

Also, I'm curious as to the "snow" moniker he's using. I don't know of any melanistic tegus and I thought to get all white you had to have the melanistic gene to get to the snow end of the equation.
 
Hey em, you were just here a not too long ago. What happened? Why haven't you posted the proof?

Don't you have any?
 
I don't know about other people but this photo looks to me like the colors may have been altered some.

l_35d1c906208401b3bf67124120c6c6f1.jpg


His location is not far from me. I would LOVE to see this animal in person. How 'bout it?
 
Jim O said:
I don't know about other people but this photo looks to me like the colors may have been altered some.

l_35d1c906208401b3bf67124120c6c6f1.jpg


His location is not far from me. I would LOVE to see this animal in person. How 'bout it?
Click to expand...
Not just some, but a whole lot. Here is the picture with a bunch of red and blue added back and the green turned way way down. Some one messed with that pic a whole bunch.
 

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If that's closer to the original, why "doctor" it? Something is missing here...
 
giving credit to ron st.pierre for the photos on his website for the snow and albinos and the last photo of the albino tegu to Regal Reptiles.

notice the red patterning on the animal as a juvenile.
nov-snowfemale.jpg

adult animal, notice the light red coloration in between the white patterning
snow.html

note the dark red coloration on the albino and light red coloration on the snow.
nov-albandsnow-1.jpg

adult albino tegu, notice dark red coloration on the body, lacking in the photo from ethan's site.
albino%20tegu%2012-9-03.jpg

ethan's animal
l_35d1c906208401b3bf67124120c6c6f1.jpg


now compare this to the photo he has posted on his site. notice the overall washed out appearance of the photo from the flash. but if you look closely you can see that animal lacks the dark coloration that is on the albino animal's body.

Regardless of the questionability of the snow moniker or the existence of a melanistic tegu, the creator of the name snow was ron st.pierre so if the name is in question, take that up with Ron rather than ethan because if anything ethan purchased his snow from ron st.pierre himself or from one of ron's customers.
 
beccari said:
Regardless of the questionability of the snow moniker or the existence of a melanistic tegu, the creator of the name snow was ron st.pierre so if the name is in question, take that up with Ron rather than ethan because if anything ethan purchased his snow from ron st.pierre himself or from one of ron's customers.
Click to expand...

BULLSNOT.

Just because someone calls a thing by a certain name does not make that thing what it has been called.

ron apparently told some untruths if you talk to enough people. Why does he get an automatic pass?

ethan is either lying or stupid or both.

He made claims. I asked for proof. He can't or won't provide it.

He's either lying about snows, which should be WHITE, or is afraid of somethng else.

Either way, HE should be here defending himself, not you.
 
Jason, what do you get when you breed the Snows together? You get Albinos, and the lighter Albinos are called Snows, correct?

Don't you think that is bad pool? I mean really?
 
when you breed your own first morph for a species you can name it however you want. As for the topic at hand, snow is the sitting name because thats what ron has called it. Again, drop him a line if you want to rename it. I'm sure he'll appreciate that. if you want proof put your emphasis on the validity of morph title, rather than the side barred bullshit you really want proof of. talk about that rather then legitimacy of morphs. Outside of that, keep to the topic that you want proof of breeding rather than on the proof of morph status. If you want proof of morph status contact ron st.pierre at [email protected]. until then Ron's name applies and will continue to apply until you and the community of morph experts discuss the legitimacy of an applied name. And once you gather that info and apply if correctly, please correct the misnamed patternless leopard gecko vs. leucistic leopard gecko vs. blizzard lizard. Blizzards are leucistics, leucistics are patternless and patternless by title are currently leucistics. Once that is cleared up, you will have the title of morph correcter. That name applies appropriately because infact you would have corrected years of poorly described morphs upon two generas.

I defend Ethan because you are too stupid to actually state that Ron st. Pierre did not label the snow as a proper morph. If anything it is a t-albino not a snow. Again, take that up with ron, he named the phase.

As for ethan... straight out ask... Ethan did you produce specimens that would be labeled as Snow's according to ron st.pierre or snows according to anerythristic vs. albino breedings. that is too the point, its not arguable because it follows established genetic morph status.

Go buy a snow tegu from bluetegu.com.
 
So it's OK to continue the lie?
Not in my opinion.

Maybe I'll start breeding albino boas and sell all the lighter, faded ones as snows for a higher price. After all, it doesn't matter if they are snows or not, as long as I say they are since I bred them.

Face it. There are no real snow tegus because the animals needed to make a real snow do not exist.

People need to stop charging more money and defending the practice of selling snows when they are not really snows.
 
So just because someone else named them something that they are not to collect extra cash, you think it is OK for you to do it as well? Man, that is some great morals there; he can call them Chihuahuas but are they Chihuahuas?

Yea, it is still away to misrepresent an animal to collect extra cash. Bottom line, it is wrong, call them what they are or get called on it.

They are not, nor have they ever been a Snow morph. I would also bet it is OK to keep the history of the Blue tegu a secret as well, what people don't know wont hurt them, correct?

As for contacting Ron, well good luck with that, many have already tried. But I will say this, if you bought one and got stuck with one of these light colored albinos, then it would look to me like you would be pointing your finger at the right person (The Breeder) and not defending something you know was wrong from the start. I remember the price he charged, major difference in the lighter ones, 1000.00 to 2500.00.

Bottom line, you got took, knowing this, point your finger in the right direction.
 
you can breed your albinos and sell them however you want, you breed a new morph and you will be able to label it however your little heart desires. welcome to the industry of poorly labeled morphs and species. Go correct the locales of green tree pythons too. and while you're at it separate out all the house geckos into their individual species. And while your at it correct the leucistic bearded dragon, last time i saw one it had brown coloration.

you have picked a poorly argued battle in which your grip is with the misnamed morph snow. you can continue to argue the bullshit or accept two known facts..... true snows are produced from anerys x albino via double hets at second generation from initial breeding. and second, snow tegus are light colored albinos.

your arguement is pointless because you have a gripe with ethan. Keep to that. if your real issue is with the moniker, again we can title you the Morph Correcter if you can get an entire community to agree with your issue. Obviously its so painful for you to deal with that you have to cause drama with a reputable person where none is needed. I can give you a tissue if its going to help your tears dry as you continue bitching over the topic that the entire community is aware of, snow tegus don't truly exist. wow. my life is sooo sooo impeded by this fact that you are already aware. you recognize it and so does varnyard and everyone following this.

its a snow by sales pitch, when you breed and produce them, sell them how you see fit. but since they were produced and sold as snows first, that is what they are. Again go produce the first of something, name it and sell it how you see fit. Until then, stop criticizing something you are well aware of that is not going to change until you make the push to sell your own animals labeled as you properly see fit. if they are true snows, well thats what they are. If they are light colored albinos, sell them as that. No one is twisting your arm to sell them as snows or light colored albinos. When is the last time you had a person hold a gun to your head as you posted on ks.com or fauna and said....."they are snows damnit! THEY ARE SNOWS!!" if thats happening, you seriously need to reconsider your lifestyle.
 
Species and sub-species have nothing to do with morphs. I think your comparison is a poor one, even if you are just making a point. The fact is that someone who is just getting into tegus might be duped by the name "snow". That person might think that they're getting a double homozygous animal, when in fact they're just paying extra for an albino. I think he should be able to call them what he wants, as long as he's honest about the genetics.
 
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