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Roatan/Honduran breeding ?

T

tarantulakeeper

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I'm new to boas, having kept corns for many years. I'm focusing on island/dwarf boas and have a question for you. Would a roatan firebelly (male) bred to an Honduran mainland (female) be an undesirable breeding? Would it be considered a cross and thus frowned upon? Thank you for any insights. John
 
That depends on who you are talking to, lol. It is not a true "cross", as both are BCI; however the locality purists would not hesitate to tell you not to do it. True (pure) Roatan is not common, and much of the US stock has been interbred with mainland Hondurans (or even other BCI). I tend toward purism; but apparently that is primarily for the insular species I keep...I have no interest in Hondurans or Roatans, and the thought of interbreeding them doesn't concern me. My thought on the matter is this, though: You can accurately call a Roatan boa a Honduran, but not the other way around (a Roatan is a Honduran, but a Honduran is not necessarily a Roatan). As such, if you do breed them, (I would suggest that you) market the babies as Hondurans . I say this because that takes the substance away from the argument against the breeding. If you market them as Roatans, you are inaccurately describing the animals. If you market them as Roatan X Honduran, in many cases the "X Honduran" gets dropped once they leave your hands.

edited: see color text
 
Its really not a good idea to cross any Island BCI like that, especially if your trying focus on island/dwarf boas.

Thanks, Josh
 
As a Keeper/Breeder of TRUE form Roatans,I would strongly argue pages against futher pollution of the true insular Roatan Isle BCI.
There are but a handfull of keepers still holding unpolluted strains of this BCI form.Sadly some quality F1/F2 stock were recently sold off do to the keepers $$interest$$ in the color mutt market,therefore tragically opening the door to further potential of dilution.
Useing the Hog Island BCI as a prime example......
PLEASE DONT! Roatans are something a Hog Isle will never truthfully ever compare to,but in the same stroke Will be Ruined just as easily.

M/
 
Metachrosis said:
As a Keeper/Breeder of TRUE form Roatans,I would strongly argue pages against futher pollution of the true insular Roatan Isle BCI.
There are but a handfull of keepers still holding unpolluted strains of this BCI form.Sadly some quality F1/F2 stock were recently sold off do to the keepers $$interest$$ in the color mutt market,therefore tragically opening the door to further potential of dilution.
Useing the Hog Island BCI as a prime example......
PLEASE DONT! Roatans are something a Hog Isle will never truthfully ever compare to,but in the same stroke Will be Ruined just as easily.

M/
Click to expand...


Needed to see that again...............Couldn't agree more.

Rick
 
Metachrosis said:
As a Keeper/Breeder of TRUE form Roatans,I would strongly argue pages against futher pollution of the true insular Roatan Isle BCI.
There are but a handfull of keepers still holding unpolluted strains of this BCI form.Sadly some quality F1/F2 stock were recently sold off do to the keepers $$interest$$ in the color mutt market,therefore tragically opening the door to further potential of dilution.
Useing the Hog Island BCI as a prime example......
PLEASE DONT! Roatans are something a Hog Isle will never truthfully ever compare to,but in the same stroke Will be Ruined just as easily.

M/
Click to expand...

Thanks for your thoughts. I keep tarantulas (duh) and the topic of crosses comes up often. Mixing species is frowned upon by almost all serious keepers especially when the reason is "just to see how they'd look or if it can be done". But I didn't have a good handle on what the general feeling is among herpers. I have a beautiful female honduran I got from Primeval Beauty and would like to breed her some day. I have watched for a male for a while but haven't seen one on the market. KNS has an ad in the classified section offering roatans, so I thought I'd get some opinions. (Rick, check the ads from August 14th in the boa section). I'll keep looking for a mainline honduran male. Thanks again. John
 
I wonder.

While I am not an expert on well anything,(LOL), I wonder about if those "Roatans" in the add are genuine. All of the "Pure" Roatans I have come across, had for one thing, Genetic reverse striping(or Tiger pattern or patternless,what ever) and carried a price tag of $2,500. The ones in the adds don't have any striping of any kind and are only $450. I wonder.
 
I tried and failed miserably to check by date. Roatan returns nothing. Firebelly returns nothing. I guess I'll never figure this search stuff out. LOL

Got a link?

Rick
 
Mine are what have been referred to as "tiger's" They have the bright red bellies with 1/3 patternless dorsal and neck stripping. I really look forward to proving these traits out in 2 years.
 

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Glades Herps are the only ones Ive ever heard of selling Honduran BCI under the name TIGER BOA.
If you have,
One Pure form Roatan
One Pure form Mainland
One mixed island X mainland mutt
From birth to 2 year sub-adult stages,the Pure form Roatan can and will be easily picked from the lot.As would the Island X Mainland mutt.It would be helpfull to have some working knowledge of each form before hand,but even a novice with a few pointers can clearly see the differences.
Same applies for the other Island forms like the Hog and Corn Islands.Just look at a true form verse a Hypo X and the others that extend/scatter out from there.
Do the math so to speak . . . . . . .
Head mass
Body mass
Eye orbit
Scale counts etc,etc
You cant sit on some forum and argue Taxo,Breeder name dropping BS with the alledge educated.
Just do your homework and purchaseing True Island form BCI like any other BCI/BCC isnt very difficult.

People that want it handed to them on a silver platter generally get what they invest their efforts in.

M/
 
Talked with Dennis Sargent today, and he mentioned Glades getting some of the early firebelly stock. Are they still producing them pure, or crossing them?
 
Dennis (to my knowledge) was never a supplier to Glades.
Not out of the question by any means.But I do know for a fact that Glades supplier was Dennis' supplier when Dennis first aquired Honduran BCI.I hate the name dropping BS,but its hard to explain in forum context without such.

Suffice to say......Thank You Tom Crutchfield!

M/
 
Sorry for the gap.
I did not mean to say Dennis was originally supplied by
Tom Crutchfield.Dennis was futher down the food chain.There are other players involved that fill that gap.
Dennis just coined the FB phrase,he wasnt the first to reproduce the strain in culture.


M/
 
Metachrosis said:
From birth to 2 year sub-adult stages,the Pure form Roatan can and will be easily picked from the lot.As would the Island X Mainland mutt.It would be helpfull to have some working knowledge of each form before hand,but even a novice with a few pointers can clearly see the differences.
Do the math so to speak . . . . . . .
Head mass
Body mass
Eye orbit
Scale counts etc,etc

Just do your homework and purchaseing True Island form BCI like any other BCI/BCC isnt very difficult.

People that want it handed to them on a silver platter generally get what they invest their efforts in.

M/
Click to expand...

Some of the above is beyond my current knowledge level, but I'm always eager to learn. Is working knowledge available from published works or is it pretty much a hands-on type of learning?
I know one thing I've gleaned from hanging around the past year is to buy from reputable breeders. Metachrosis, are you producing mainline Honduran babies or do you know someone who is? And what's the best way to get started on my homework? I spent some time looking at maps this evening and see that Honduras, Nicaragua, Belize, etc are all land connected and I see the island that Roaton is on. So, I can see why the emphasis is there to breed pure.
I've spent some time looking over the websites I have found so far related to BCI, especially boa-constrictors.com. As I said earlier, I'll continue to look for a mainland Honduran and appreciate any guidence in learning about these boas. Thanks, John
 
I din't mean to suggest that Dennis supplied them. Sorry if it came across that way. He was just telling me that they did aquire some early stock. I think everyone knows Tom Crutchfield was the man. LOL

Sorry if I confused anyone.


tarantulakeeper..............

Actually, there are true form firebellies from the mainland as well, but only from the norther coast of Honduras that I am aware of. And also, not all Roatans are firebellies. They have some with grey bellies as well. But still very much a Roatan boa.

Seeing as I just learned that, thought I'd share.

Rick
 
From what I understand Nick Gancaraz was one of the folks who had a proven line of Hondo's and lost most everything he had after hurricane Charlie hit 3 years ago.
 
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